6400-series Nova LFS - Updates & Retirements

[jajuan]

On 8/16/2016 at 9:17 PM, BusHunter said:

huh??? It's in the budget. CTA states they will retain 65 #6400's. Do i have to go and cite the page? Basically my argument or I would use the term debate as I'm not mad at you, is that CTA will retain #6400's and you say no they won't. Now where are your references? Because I know where mine are. Jajuan seems to agree with you based on no evidence, so I don't know who's passing out the Kool Aid but it must be good!!

Ummm the evidence was CTA's budget. Are you ready to admit that this whole debate you're keeping going between the two of you all stems from you pulling minute details out of context as well as looking at planned events from a point further along after other planned events were already to have happened and then saying that the items don't fit together. In short, your error in all this is that you are not accounting for the detail that sw4400 hit upon that a number of 6400s still assigned to FG aren't necessarily kept to run on the street, but for parts usage for ones that are still road worthy. How else do you account for it being worked out that FG puts about 190 buses on the street during rush hour even after taking into account that it regained the 76 not so long ago but is assigned roughly 260 buses? Sure a bus garage may have 30-40 buses still sitting inside during rush hour, but to be assigned enough that unused buses parked at the garage numbers 70 buses on average? None of the other garages would appear to really have that big of a surplus sitting inside at rush hour. 

[Busjack]

I thought the debate was over.

49 minutes ago, jajuan said:

In short, your error in all this is that you are not accounting for the detail that sw4400 hit upon that a number of 6400s still assigned to FG aren't necessarily kept to run on the street, but for parts usage for ones that are still road worthy.

I accepted that, but I'm not sure that's all that is happening. It looks like implementation of 8200s is still slow.

Using the trusty spreadsheet method on maths22's tracker, for 8 a.m. today, the total count is 189, but out of that there are 96 6400s. Still, though, that's 34 less than "on the computer."

maths.xls

Also, 5 of the FG 1000s were listed as on NP routes (1001, 1003, 1005, 1013,1026).

[jajuan]

28 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I thought the debate was over.

I accepted that, but I'm not sure that's all that is happening. It looks like implementation of 8200s is still slow.

Using the trusty spreadsheet method on maths22's tracker, for 8 a.m. today, the total count is 189, but out of that there are 96 6400s. Still, though, that's 34 less than "on the computer."

maths.xls

Also, 5 of the FG 1000s were listed as on NP routes (1001, 1003, 1005, 1013,1026).

I was responding to a statement BH directed my way actually.  The five displaced FG 1000s on NP routes of course can be explained as bloat at FG. A few 6400s and even 8200s were also spotted on NP routes in recent weeks and days. Also a few NP 1000s were reported seen on FG routes so they kind of evened out on that front. At any rate, my larger point point, which you've also made, was the debate went longer than necessary to begin with because you accepted that things have gotten down to the point that there are 6400s at FG that are pretty much parts buses for the rest but it didn't look like BH had since as I noted you both had agreed upon the key points but his wires still got crossed from yours in this venture.

[Busjack]

19 minutes ago, jajuan said:

The five displaced FG 1000s on NP routes of course can be explained as bloat at FG.

Essentially, though my last point was that utilization of 92 6400s seems high at this point, given that only 29 of the 40 NFs (including the 5 on NP routes) and 73 8200s were out. Of, course, I don't know how many of the about 100 8200s have been turned over to FG to put into service, and how many ghost buses are out there.

[BusHunter]

39 minutes ago, jajuan said:

I was responding to a statement BH directed my way actually.  The five displaced FG 1000s on NP routes of course can be explained as bloat at FG. A few 6400s and even 8200s were also spotted on NP routes in recent weeks and days. Also a few NP 1000s were reported seen on FG routes so they kind of evened out on that front. At any rate, my larger point point, which you've also made, was the debate went longer than necessary to begin with because you accepted that things have gotten down to the point that there are 6400s at FG that are pretty much parts buses for the rest but it didn't look like BH had since as I noted you both had agreed upon the key points but his wires still got crossed from yours in this venture.

Huh??? Not again.  This is where I should say no comment but I cant help myself. Jajuan how do you and busjack get that 130 buses are retiring when they are only getting 45 more, now 35. Even with all  buses ordered thats only 50-60 buses max. Please explain this to me. How are they going to run all this extra service they propose plus the school season is  upon us if anything runs are increasing. 

[Busjack]

58 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Jajuan how do you and busjack get that 130 buses are retiring

Again, at least @Busjack didn't say that.

58 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Even with all  buses ordered thats only 50-60 buses max.

If "[e]ven with all buses ordered" mean up to now and not the 50 in the out years capital plan, that is what @Busjack said--approx. 50 buses to remain until the out years acquisitions.

Like I said above, this debate is over.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Please explain this to me. How are they going to run all this extra service they propose plus the school season is  upon us if anything runs are increasing. 

I decided to take the maths22 Excel Challenge for the entire system, since the FG one indicated about a 30% spare ratio. Done as of 8 a.m. to keep the comparison constant.

mathswholesystem.xls

Anyway, it comes up with 1282 buses in service out of a total of approx. 1870 (RTAMS say 1888 as of Jan 2016). That also indicates a spare ratio of 30%. While some are accident casualties or the like, there doesn't seem any shortage of buses to cover increased runs.

I remember a controversy in the late 1990s that the FTA wanted its money back because CTA had too many spare L cars, and CTA justified it by saying (before the rehabs) that the fleet was unreliable. This sounds like it is getting into that territory.

[BusHunter]

#6400 buses that haven't been in service this week include #6461 (last run sunday) #6473, #6488, #6559, #6669, #6686, #6724, #6752, #6757 and #6769. Damn #6686 with the ice cold AC is on there last ran Saturday night (the 13th) If it doesn't come back I guess for it's eulogy we can say "last ran by an operator with blue hair" Maybe she's into CTA colors.

#6757 and #6669 haven't been out in 2 weeks. I guess #6461 I'll take off the roster as it sounds done.

[andrethebusman]

Both WB1 (6438) and WB2 (6432) dead at SS 8/17.

[Busjack]

19 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Both WB1 (6438) and WB2 (6432) dead at SS 8/17.

Will there be a wake? Will Father Pfleger officiate?

[artthouwill]

39 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Will there be a wake? Will Father Pfleger officiate?

Do Nova lives matter?

[Busjack]

28 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Do Nova lives matter?

Only if someone has not carved WB into the carcass. Gang sign?

[jajuan]

On 8/18/2016 at 1:46 PM, BusHunter said:

Huh??? Not again.  This is where I should say no comment but I cant help myself. Jajuan how do you and busjack get that 130 buses are retiring when they are only getting 45 more, now 35. Even with all  buses ordered thats only 50-60 buses max. Please explain this to me. How are they going to run all this extra service they propose plus the school season is  upon us if anything runs are increasing. 

Dude who said that all 130 buses would retire all that quickly? Read back and you will see it's been mentioned more than once some of that 130 would have to stick around until the electrics arrive. We also left room for them to exercise the last 25 Novas. At any rate, in that statement you're still ignoring FG is bloated with extra buses currently because of the fact they still have 130 junk buses. That means they're keeping FG on a higher spare ratio than the standard 15%. You're also ignoring that some of those 130 are destined to be cannibalized for parts quite soon for what stays behind. Yeah they are going to be gone by the time FY 2019 or 2020 gets here, but no one said that they will all be gone with the last 7900s coming in.

[jajuan]

And while I'm at it, my apologies to Busjack for inadvertently getting him sucked back into this. It was me responding to your comment to me BH, so don't go pulling Busjack been into this since he hasn't said anything else on it. And since my last post pretty much sums up my thoughts about the whole thing, I'm also done with it. Any further discussions on it BH you can just PM me to keep from highjacking the thread any further with this.

[sw4400]

19 minutes ago, jajuan said:

And while I'm at it, my apologies to Busjack for inadvertently getting him sucked back into this. It was me responding to your comment to me BH, so don't go pulling Busjack been into this since he hasn't said anything else on it. And since my last post pretty much sums up my thoughts about the whole thing, I'm also done with it. Any further discussions on it BH you can just PM me to keep from highjacking the thread any further with this.

Yes please.... because Vinnie is talking about firing all three of you for ping-ponging on this subject.  

[Busjack]

9 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Yes please.... because Vinnie is talking about firing all three of you for ping-ponging on this subject.  

Tell Paul Levesque that I tried to get out twice, but Daniel Bryan seems to keep jumping me.

[BusHunter]

29 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Dude who said that all 130 buses would retire all that quickly? Read back and you will see it's been mentioned more than once some of that 130 would have to stick around until the electrics arrive. We also left room for them to exercise the last 25 Novas. At any rate, in that statement you're still ignoring FG is bloated with extra buses currently because of the fact they still have 130 junk buses. That means they're keeping FG on a higher spare ratio than the standard 15%. You're also ignoring that some of those 130 are destined to be cannibalized for parts quite soon for what stays behind. Yeah they are going to be gone by the time FY 2019 or 2020 gets here, but no one said that they will all be gone with the last 7900s coming in.

Well now were in agreement. Im glad you see things my way. What's with all the hostility?  Its only a debate not a flame war. just relax. If you need my apology you both have it. Im not hijacking  anything. The topic is 6400's. 

[BusHunter]

11 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Yes please.... because Vinnie is talking about firing all three of you for ping-ponging on this subject.  

Talk to jajuan he brought it up. Twice now. 1-2-3 strikes your out at the old ball game!!

And what's  with this 2 on 1. This isnt tag team wrestling. I don't have a partner.

[sw4400]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Talk to jajuan he brought it up. Twice now. 1-2-3 strikes your out at the old ball game!!

And what's  with this 2 on 1. This isnt tag team wrestling. I don't have a partner.

I haven't said anything on this subject, I'm just trying to bring peace before garmon asks for civility. It's not Red Alert hostility, more like Yellow Alert hostility. What happened in the locked topic was Red Alert hostility.

Here's my layout of the hostility table:

Red Alert: Conversation is lost due to vulgarity or refusal to listen to Admin/Moderator or Member(s) and the former now has to close topic and possibly put discipline down on member(s) for their actions.

Orange Alert: Conversation is getting off topic and Moderator/Administrator is requesting an end to the squabbling

Yellow Alert: Conversation is friendly, but back & forth squabbling is slightly intensifying. Need closure on squabbling ASAP

Blue Alert: Still friendly conversations, but a little squabbling

Code Green: Friendly, on-topic conversations

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Well now were in agreement. Im glad you see things my way. What's with all the hostility?  Its only a debate not a flame war. just relax. If you need my apology you both have it. Im not hijacking  anything. The topic is 6400's. 

There was never any real disagreement from the start. You just weren't reading our full responses. 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, sw4400 said:

 Red Alert

I just remembered that Paul Levesque wrestled under the name Jean Paul Levesque in World Championship Wrestling (YouTube), but never married Dusty Rhodes, who apparently was the boss down there (under the closing credit "Executive Producer, Virgil Runnels").Thus, despite what appears on WWE programming, he is not Stardust's mother.

[andrethebusman]

With both WB's dead, what are ironworkers using? WB1 was still among the living two Saturdays ago!

[sw4400]

1 hour ago, andrethebusman said:

With both WB's dead, what are ironworkers using? WB1 was still among the living two Saturdays ago!

There's plenty of Novas to pick from, and I'm sure it doesn't take long to make them Workbuses. Just remove most of the seats, put padlocks on the doors and remove the service numbers and put them as WB-##, and that's it.

[BusHunter]

#6757 and #6559 are now in the 3rd yard with their bike racks removed.

 

[BusHunter]

This weeks scan of the #6400's show these buses not in service all week

#6468, #6473, #6482, #6488, #6562, #6669, #6686, #6699, #6752, #6757, #6769, #6771, #6798, #6826, #6866, #6882

#6669 has been gone 3 weeks and it comes off the roster. i'm taking #6559 and #6757 off the roster as they are probably gone with the bike racks removed in the 3rd yard. #6752's coming off as it has been gone 3 weeks.

There's a few that have been gone 2 weeks. #6473, #6488, #6686, #6769

On the streets I came across two buses that were having issues. #6585's back door was so creaky and loud it sounded like it belonged to the Addams Family. "It's creepy and it's spooky It's all together ookey...."

Then I came across #6581 last night. It was having an issue where when the back door closed the green light would turn off but the interlock wouldn't release. The operator had to close the door like two or three times to release it. I don't know how they plan on keeping some of these around. They need a whole 3rd yard of pick a part buses. I've been noticing though most of what FG's running seems to be the option buses (ambers) The base needs to go in these last few #8300's that arrive.