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The bus are not steel they are fiberglass because I remember my friend a told me since all new buses begin with 4400's all bus are fiberglass to save on diesel fuel.

Not the case, as the 5300 and 6000 series Flxibles showed significant rust damage. Obviously both generations of Novas were fiberglass or some composite. Don't know about New Flyers prior to Xcelsiors. NF said that NABIs fabricated in Alabama had aluminum skins.

RTSs were obviously fiberglass, as as they aged, you could see the frayed fibers.

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Transfer list weekend 1-24/25-15 Arrivals 74th = 1266-1270,1301-1304.1306-1310.1784,1786,1791,1794,1796,1858,1859,1861,1862,1854,1869,1041-1046,1060,1062,1117,1290,1297,1300,1330,1343,1346,1350,

1000-1014 have been assigned to Forest Glen.

​Please be civil with your replies....

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Not the case, as the 5300 and 6000 series Flxibles showed significant rust damage. Obviously both generations of Novas were fiberglass or some composite. Don't know about New Flyers prior to Xcelsiors. NF said that NABIs fabricated in Alabama had aluminum skins.

RTSs were obviously fiberglass, as as they aged, you could see the frayed fibers.

Most likely the skin of the bus is fiberglass as it is burned up in the main fire section. But the bus itself would have to be some kind of heavier metal to support the structure. Maybe it's not steel, but probably a hybrid of it.

Well now CTA has a couple #4300 buses to pick parts off of. I wonder if it's possible to disconnect the rear of #4333 and put #4323's on it or vice versa. The front of #4333 looks OK and if #4323 has structural damage in the front then they could possibly make one bus out of two. At least #4327 now has a composite front from one or the other.

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Most likely the skin of the bus is fiberglass as it is burned up in the main fire section. But the bus itself would have to be some kind of heavier metal to support the structure. Maybe it's not steel, but probably a hybrid of it.

Well now CTA has a couple #4300 buses to pick parts off of. I wonder if it's possible to disconnect the rear of #4333 and put #4323's on it or vice versa. The front of #4333 looks OK and if #4323 has structural damage in the front then they could possibly make one bus out of two. At least #4327 now has a composite front from one or the other.

The structure (stainless steel, or whatever) is obvious once the skin peeled.

Only the Compobus claimed to be a completely composite structure.

Maybe you do have a solution for salvaging the $940,000 loss per bus by cutting the loss somewhat in half.

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They got some real good pictures from the comments section of DNA.info's story

.http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141118/lincoln-park/lake-shore-drive-bus-crash-lincoln-park-fire-creates-nightmare-commute

Here's some of the shots. (In case they disappear off the site, I downloaded them)

attachicon.gifcta 4333 burned up 11-18-14.jpg

attachicon.gifcta 4333 burned up towing away.jpg

attachicon.gif4333 fire wheel well closeup.jpg

attachicon.gifmore 4333 fire pictures.jpg

Did they tow #4333 away yet? And did it have to get split in two to do so?

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Most likely the skin of the bus is fiberglass as it is burned up in the main fire section. But the bus itself would have to be some kind of heavier metal to support the structure. Maybe it's not steel, but probably a hybrid of it.

Well now CTA has a couple #4300 buses to pick parts off of. I wonder if it's possible to disconnect the rear of #4333 and put #4323's on it or vice versa. The front of #4333 looks OK and if #4323 has structural damage in the front then they could possibly make one bus out of two. At least #4327 now has a composite front from one or the other.

It's a good thought, but I don't think it's possible... one is a DE60LFR and one is a D60LFR. The components in the front and the rear of both are no doubt different and would require rewiring. And there's also the question of the roof pods, which house the electrical components and HVAC units(the D60LFR's just have HVAC units on top).

The only bus that might have a shot at coming back would be 4327, if they can use the front of 4333 as a donor bus(the frames are the only real thing identical).

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It's a good thought, but I don't think it's possible... one is a DE60LFR and one is a D60LFR. The components in the front and the rear of both are no doubt different and would require rewiring. And there's also the question of the roof pods, which house the electrical components and HVAC units(the D60LFR's just have HVAC units on top).

The only bus that might have a shot at coming back would be 4327, if they can use the front of 4333 as a donor bus(the frames are the only real thing identical).

  • Last year's CTA budget (not this year's) had an item about converting part of the D60s to hybrid, so apparently it can be done,. As you note, probably the only issue is replacing the air conditioner pod on the front of 4333.
  • 4327: If all that is messed up is the plastic end cap, that can be replaced for a lot less than cannibalizing a $940,000 bus.
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Has 77th no shame? At least leave the Novas at FG!!! :angry: Whether it's a loan or otherwise, I don't see any 77th New Flyers or Novas being loaned to FG, but they are borrowing Novas from FG now!

Heck, it was represented that 77th couldn't tolerate any 2001-2 Nova, which would have been my response to Young.

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  • Last year's CTA budget (not this year's) had an item about converting part of the D60s to hybrid, so apparently it can be done,. As you note, probably the only issue is replacing the air conditioner pod on the front of 4333.
  • 4327: If all that is messed up is the plastic end cap, that can be replaced for a lot less than cannibalizing a $940,000 bus.

I agree on point two. I don't understand what is the hold up for 4327 returning to service. If it was as bad as 4323, I'd say there's probably no hope as the frame on that bus is shot.

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It was kind of strange seeing #6746 down here on the southside even if it is a loan because that's not the only #6700 down on the southside that I've recently seen, However I can't remember the few I saw.

And what did FG get in exchange for a garage that has a surplus of 40' buses? Jack s__t!!! :angry: I don't hear any reports of a 10xx, 11xx, 12xx, 13xx, 14xx, 15xx, 19xx or even some 7900's at FG.

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Wow. It's been a crazy morning rush for CTA today. I'm just catching up on the events with 4333 and the school building fire that affected the Brown and Purple Lines. Too bad they lost a practically new bus to a fire, When I saw the bus fire headlines my first thoughts were that one of the 4000s was involved. I didn't realize it was one of the clean diesels. As for CTA or New Flyer taking a reputation hit, I'm not sure of that since most transit riders in the city wouldn't know a New Flyer bus from a Nova outside of "this set of buses looks different from that set", and from how I understand the news reports that #147 operator got all the passengers off the bus safely before the bus erupted in flames.

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Now I see it, I missed it before. I still don't know why they didn't split the bus in two. #4333's rear end looks like it could have scuffed up the roads.

One of the news shows had shown, while the bus was still on LSD, that the tire was off it. I guess I'm surprised they didn't at least use a dolly.

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I think it's already been established years ago that 77th will sometimes use what's on hand to fill a run from among buses that might be down there getting heavier maintenance done at South Shops which is on the same property as the garage itself.

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Hard to say what caused the fire of 4333, and I doubt we'll know because the CTA will get it investigated by the NTSB behind closed doors and get the results behind closed doors as well. But, looking at a past brake fire, this doesn't seem too much like one as that bus suffered mild damage but is back on the road now(#6510). This might've been something sparked in the engine or the heater unit.

http://youtu.be/flqT7DNAYcA

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Hard to say what caused the fire of 4333, and I doubt we'll know because the CTA will get it investigated by the NTSB behind closed doors and get the results behind closed doors as well. But, looking at a past brake fire, this doesn't seem too much like one as that bus suffered mild damage but is back on the road now(#6510). This might've been something sparked in the engine or the heater unit.

http://youtu.be/flqT7DNAYcA

If you notice that was caught before it got way out of hand. If indeed what happened this morning happened. (Flat tire) they are probably not going to ever know if it's true or not because the evidence burned up. If it did have a problem like that and was being ran at highway speeds the friction would make that rim red hot. At stop and go road speeds the rim may actually have time to cool down a little. It's just everyone's bad luck that it happened on the highway and not a street because that accelerates the process. But in other fire investigations the fire doesn't actually happen while the vehicle is moving (maybe cause it's vented) it happens when it stops as the heat concentrates on one area looking for a spark. Maybe the tire already being ripped to shreds came in contact with the hot rim and started burning.

Since buses have alot of rear axle fires, why don't bus manufacturer line the wheel well with a fire retardant material like stainless steel. I hear stainless steel is not supposed to burn up as fast.

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Most likely the skin of the bus is fiberglass as it is burned up in the main fire section. But the bus itself would have to be some kind of heavier metal to support the structure. Maybe it's not steel, but probably a hybrid of it.

Well now CTA has a couple #4300 buses to pick parts off of. I wonder if it's possible to disconnect the rear of #4333 and put #4323's on it or vice versa. The front of #4333 looks OK and if #4323 has structural damage in the front then they could possibly make one bus out of two. At least #4327 now has a composite front from one or the other.

I'm curious about how you take the front of a DE60LFR (4323) and the back of a D60LFR (4333) and make a functioning bus out of it...

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Hard to say what caused the fire of 4333, and I doubt we'll know because the CTA will get it investigated by the NTSB behind closed doors and get the results behind closed doors as well. But, looking at a past brake fire, this doesn't seem too much like one as that bus suffered mild damage but is back on the road now(#6510). This might've been something sparked in the engine or the heater unit.

...

Where do you get these strange ideas?

  • NTSB has a website and posts the results of all inquiries. That's where we learned that Big Baby and the track inspectors didn't do their jobs, and preliminarily about the runaway train and Britney Hayward fell asleep at the controls.
  • As the site says "The NTSB is an independent Federal agency charged by Congress with investigating every civil aviation accident in the U.S. and significant accidents in other modes of transportation-railroad, highway, marine and pipeline." This was not a major accident. There might be an issue that would require a recall (such as Los Angeles NABIs splitting) but that's the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration.

    ....) they are probably not going to ever know if it's true or not because the evidence burned up....

    I suppose that in your world, forensic fire investigation to determine the cause is not possible. Again, CTA 5750 could tell us better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bomb and arson squad wasn't at the site, and certainly would be surprised if someone from NF or CTA (or certainly one of their consulting engineers) doesn't look at the bus after it was towed. There was also contemporaneous evidence, such as video of the tire on the ground.

When there are actual automotive engineers and forensic investigators on this forum, please let us know.

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Hello everyone. I've been a long time lurker here and for numerous reasons never joined in on the fun but I've just moved back to Chicago a couple months ago a figured why not get involved. So yeah... Hi.

Yesterday was really something. Found myself affected by both fires during my commute and ultimately trapped on LSD for a VERY long time on a 148. By the time I arrived on scene what was left of 4333 had been dragged from the fire scene onto Michigan Ave. I assumed it was to get it out of the way to wait on a low boy trailer or something but it appears they were setting it up for a standard tow. When I rode by they had already put new wheels and tires on and were probably doing an inspection to make sure it could structurally hold up to the trip. Anyways I'll try and add a few pictures. Probably nothing new except for the new tires don't know if I've seen that on here yet.

post-2088-0-61905300-1416409260_thumb.jp

post-2088-0-69103900-1416409330_thumb.jp

post-2088-0-55379200-1416409546_thumb.jp

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