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More Bus Moves

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Looking back,  I wonder if CTA would have been better off rebuilding Archer.   They already had ownership of the land at that time.   It also bridged the gap between 74th and Kedzie (Kedzie also was a rebuilt garage on its original site).  Archer being closed put the swapocalypse in high gear.   We discussed the deadheading dilemma when they announced the Archer closing.   That spent whatever money CTA thought it would save by not paying another garage staff. 

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21 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Looking back,  I wonder if CTA would have been better off rebuilding Archer.   They already had ownership of the land at that time.   It also bridged the gap between 74th and Kedzie (Kedzie also was a rebuilt garage on its original site).  Archer being closed put the swapocalypse in high gear.   We discussed the deadheading dilemma when they announced the Archer closing.   That spent whatever money CTA thought it would save by not paying another garage staff. 

Being stuck in the middle of a residential neighborhood (or numerous churches), that wouldn't have been such a good idea, and also no room for a yard. Fisk makes more sense, except it seems to have been a chimera* floated by Emanuel or Claypool.

*Definition 2

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58 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Being stuck in the middle of a residential neighborhood (or numerous churches), that wouldn't have been such a good idea, and also no room for a yard. Fisk makes more sense, except it seems to have been a chimera* floated by Emanuel or Claypool.

*Definition 2

I use the same dictionary.   Great choice. 

With the exception of 103rd and Chicago,  the other garages are in somewhat residential areas.   Archer already existed   As you noted,  there's no room for new yard space,  but the newer garages are all indoors.   Other than Fisk, where else can you build a new facility,  the Stockyards?

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24 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

With the exception of 103rd and Chicago,  the other garages are in somewhat residential areas.

74 is industrial land by a railroad (although across from Derrick Rose Park), FG was industrial before someone built houses on the former Armstrong property, NP is basically adjacent to Northside Prep, which came afterwards, and 77th is on a huge plot of ground, and any residential undoubtedly came after 1907.

My reference to Archer was to the house with the turret that appears in all pictures and still is there, and the narrow streets around that neighborhood.

24 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

  Other than Fisk, where else can you build a new facility,  the Stockyards?

If this were 1989, I would have built one (now 74th) closer to Midway, and an A replacement in the Stockyards or east of the Criminal Court. Now, 74th is where it is, while it  appears that the 2 options for A are  now fully developed. The Fisk one adequately substitutes for east of the Criminal Court, and the neighborhood was o.k. with it.

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2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I use the same dictionary.   Great choice. 

With the exception of 103rd and Chicago,  the other garages are in somewhat residential areas.   Archer already existed   As you noted,  there's no room for new yard space,  but the newer garages are all indoors.   Other than Fisk, where else can you build a new facility,  the Stockyards?

There's an alternative to the Fisk site that's much closer to the old Archer barn.  It's a vast industrial prairie along 31st Street between Western and California, formerly occupied by International Harvester.  Space for parking and bus storage/maintenance would be ample.  There are no residences within a radius of several blocks.  Routes like Archer, South Pulaski, and the east-west routes from Cermak to 47th could be well-served with a minimum of deadheading.

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1 hour ago, wordguy said:

There's an alternative to the Fisk site that's much closer to the old Archer barn.  It's a vast industrial prairie along 31st Street between Western and California, formerly occupied by International Harvester.  Space for parking and bus storage/maintenance would be ample.  There are no residences within a radius of several blocks.  Routes like Archer, South Pulaski, and the east-west routes from Cermak to 47th could be well-served with a minimum of deadheading.

That's what I was thinking about east of the Criminal Court, but comparing my view of it while sitting around for jury duty about 20 years ago and then about 2, it looks developed, and the Google satellite view seems to confirm that.

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9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Looking back,  I wonder if CTA would have been better off rebuilding Archer.   They already had ownership of the land at that time.   It also bridged the gap between 74th and Kedzie (Kedzie also was a rebuilt garage on its original site).  Archer being closed put the swapocalypse in high gear.   We discussed the deadheading dilemma when they announced the Archer closing.   That spent whatever money CTA thought it would save by not paying another garage staff. 

Archer got closed for two basic reasons: 1) No employee parking. As a result drivers were parking everywhere in the neighborhood, which eventually resulted in a whole slew or "residential parking zones" and ever greater complaints from both neighborhood and drivers. There was no realistic way to resolve this, unlike Kedzie where the CTA picked up a bunch of cheap property south of the garage for a parking lot. 2) Neighbors were endlessly squauking about buses rumbling around on 38th and Rockwell all night as the cleaners/tankers fueled them. Basically most movement at Kedzie is indoors once the bus enters, but Archer was really too small to have that kind of arrangement. Kedzie is a full square block, Archer was a little over a half block east to west.

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8 hours ago, wordguy said:

There's an alternative to the Fisk site that's much closer to the old Archer barn.  It's a vast industrial prairie along 31st Street between Western and California, formerly occupied by International Harvester.  Space for parking and bus storage/maintenance would be ample.  There are no residences within a radius of several blocks.  Routes like Archer, South Pulaski, and the east-west routes from Cermak to 47th could be well-served with a minimum of deadheading.

I actually think the site in question is on 31st between California and Kedzie, or even west of Kedzie. At 31st and Western is parklike with 31st running into Western Blvd.  The industrial area starts at California and goes past Kedzie to about Homan, all on the south side of the street.

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9 hours ago, Busjack said:

That's what I was thinking about east of the Criminal Court, but comparing my view of it while sitting around for jury duty about 20 years ago and then about 2, it looks developed, and the Google satellite view seems to confirm that.

I see what you mean, Busjack.  But I was scoping out a large tract of land along the south side of 31st Street abutting the river.  It's located in the 2500 or 2600 block west of the railroad overpass and east of a storage lot for what appears to be truck trailers.  Some of the land looks to be paved, but it also seems like it might be abandoned.  Along 31st Street, there's a ribbon of what looks to be wild foliage and a couple of billboards.

Incidentally, i made a reference to former International Harvester land which wasn't accurate.  It's across 31st from the old IH complex, which  does look to have been redeveloped.

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Well well well, it looks like 74th is no longer having 1700s because #1739 is at Kedzie, #1787 and #1797 have migrated to North Park. Also, #1828, #1842, #1846-48, and #1858-62 are at North Park. However, it seems like 74th is going to have #1473-94 after all because #1490 and #1491 are there. 77th will have sole possession of ALL 1200s!

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In addition, Kedzie lost some of its #1350s (likely #1354-56), as well as #1271, #1272 and #1280-83, to 77th, of which #1272 and #1354 have been spotted on 77th Garage routes #3 and #79, respectively.

And what did Kedzie receive? Not #1587-96, nor #1601, #1603, #1606, nor #1620. Instead, 77th gave up #1473-94 to 74th while Kedzie received whatever #1730s-50s from 74th (#1739-41, #1743, #1747, #1748, #1750-52) that did not go to Chicago Garage last week. (#1742, #1744, #1745 and #1749 are still at North Park while #1746 might still be at Chicago.)

And of course, North Park is now heavily involved in this weekend's swap, having received #1784-97, #1828, #1842, #1846-48, #1858, #1859, #1861 and #1862 from 74th while it gave up #1277-79 to 77th.

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Also, #1405-13 and #1426-29 made the trip from North Park to 74th. Thus, 74th should now have an entire large block of New Flyer buses from #1405 to #1539 except #1422, which is still at Chicago Garage. (74th still has some upper #1800s that have yet to be transferred to other garages, while buses in the #1540-76 range will likely go to 74th and/or Kedzie.)

As a result, neither Kedzie nor North Park should have any more New Flyer buses that had originally been delivered, and still equipped, with the old-school American Seating Model 6468 seats remaining. (74th had already lost the last of its 6468-equipped buses some weeks ago while Chicago lost the last of its 6468-equipped buses last weekend.) The 6468-equipped New Flyers should now be all divided between Forest Glen, 103rd and 77th.

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40 minutes ago, RJL6000 said:

Also, #1408-13 and #1426-29 made the trip from North Park to 74th. (#1405-07 have not been spotted in service as of right now, but some of those buses might have migrated from North Park to 74th as well.)

Thus, 74th should now have an entire large block of New Flyer buses from #1408 to #1539 except #1422, which is still at Chicago Garage. (74th still has some upper #1800s that have yet to be transferred to other garages, while buses in the #1540-76 range will likely go to 74th and/or Kedzie.)

I updated the roster as well with what we know so far.

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7 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Well well well, it looks like 74th is no longer having 1700s because #1739 is at Kedzie, #1787 and #1797 have migrated to North Park. Also, #1828, #1842, #1846-48, and #1858-62 are at North Park. However, it seems like 74th is going to have #1473-94 after all because #1490 and #1491 are there. 77th will have sole possession of ALL 1200s!

You and RJL confirmed a few hypotheses of mine: that 77th was to 1200s and 1300s, that 74th was flipping to majority 1400s and approximately the first half of the 1500s, and that those 1750s that went to Chicago may be a fluke looking at all the 1700s and 1800s that NP received. One correction though. 77th doesn't have sole possession of the 1200s since 103rd was reported to have about the first 20 of them.

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4 minutes ago, jajuan said:

You and RJL confirmed a few hypotheses of mine: that 77th was to 1200s and 1300s, that 74th was flipping to majority 1400s and approximately the first half of the 1500s, and that those 1750s that went to Chicago may be a fluke looking at all the 1700s and 1800s that NP received. One correction though. 77th doesn't have sole possession of the 1200s since 103rd was reported to have about the first 20 of them.

Oh man, I meant to say that 77th will have the sole possession of the rest of them from Kedzie and North Park! I should get a write up for that! xD

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7 minutes ago, garmon757 said:

Oh man, I meant to say that 77th will have the sole possession of the rest of them from Kedzie and North Park! I should get a write up for that! xD

We'll forgive this time.:P

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2 hours ago, garmon757 said:

Oh man, I meant to say that 77th will have the sole possession of the rest of them from Kedzie and North Park! I should get a write up for that! xD

Vince said to make sure you get this for your error.... xD 

 

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20 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

Instead, 77th gave up #1473-94 to 74th...

I was slightly off there. #1493 is still currently at 77th.

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7 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

I was slightly off there. #1493 is still currently at 77th.

There is one bus that seemed to move that no one's mentioned, #1354 Kedzie to 77th. I don't know if #1355-57 went to 77th, but we'll find out soon enough.  You are right about the #1740's moving to Kedzie, #1747 and #1748 is there now. 74th is just about done with moves. It only has between 25-30 buses it needs to move to be done. That could get done next week or the week after depending on whether next week 77th garage is the focus of the transfers or not. .

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It's confirmed that 77th have the rest of the 1200s from Kedzie and North Park. However, I don't know what the hell they're doing because #1492 and #1493 are still there. 

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1 hour ago, garmon757 said:

It's confirmed that 77th have the rest of the 1200s from Kedzie and North Park. However, I don't know what the hell they're doing because #1492 and #1493 are still there. 

Also, #1494.

Thus, with the exception of #1422 (Chicago) and #1492-4 (77th), an entire large block between #1405 and #1539, inclusive, should now be at 74th. The last four holdouts should be migrating to 74th in the coming weeks.

As for the Kedzie 1300s moving to 77th, only three of them have made the move so far: #1354, #1355 and #1356. (#1357-62, #1364, #1365, #1369-74, #1376 and #1378-80 are still at Kedzie - and #1375 still at North Park - for the time being.)

And what about #1381-1404, which are still at North Park at present? It is now likely that some of them will end up at 77th while others will end up at 74th. Plus, North Park still has lower #1300s that have yet to be transferred to 77th.

By the way, there is one noticeable oddity: #1243 is loaned from 77th to Kedzie. But this is likely due to the shortage of operable (this means that some of them are idle for maintenance reasons) Kedzie 40-footers for this morning's rush hour.

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