New Express Routes Coming Soon.

[MetroShadow]

BusHunter missed the point and you did too. Why is there an argument about the availability of a transit bus with high seats, when Pace has 15 of them?

Art is the only one that seems on point, i.e. why motor coaches are used on long haul routes, although not the answer why they were replaced on 877/888 by the apparently impossible Axess buses with high seats.

Like I said, ask Melinda Metzger.

Additionally, some of the original 13 are still in service.

The 877/888 batch are the axcess models (if you already didn't know that).

The argument of ordering buses like the 2390's is pretty much the point of the 6377's and 6950's.

There's plenty of availability to go on. Especially in the next month of service.

[garmon757]

Guys!!! To sum up about the Axess buses, 15 of them (6377-6391) are equipped with high black coach like seats ok! I don't understand how is that relevant to this topic but Pace is equipped with buses that will be compatible with these new routes.

[BusHunter]

BusHunter missed the point and you did too. Why is there an argument about the availability of a transit bus with high seats, when Pace has 15 of them? (see here)

Art is the only one that seems on point, i.e. why motor coaches are used on long haul routes, although not the answer why they were replaced on 877/888 by the apparently impossible Axess buses with high seats.

Like I said, ask Melinda Metzger.

Well you haven't made your point clear because I still don't see it or even know why you are pro MCI. Obviously Pace ordered both buses because they are trying to find out what's better themselves. To me the point is this both buses have the same seats one is high floor, one has use for luggage one don't. One requires that you are able bodied to climb stairs and can lift a stroller if need be. One has a traditional hydraulic lift, one has a simple ramp for wheelchairs. One costs more one don't. Maybe they feel they have to drive the Hummer of buses or driver's will not let them down the shoulder. But to me the Axess' are doing the job cheaper, more efficiently and the comfort is not sacrificed, so I don't believe riders are riding MCI's because it's nice "hummer" like ability. Looks like the Orions do pretty well on the #282 and those riders have some long rides.

[jajuan]

BusHunter missed the point and you did too. Why is there an argument about the availability of a transit bus with high seats, when Pace has 15 of them? (see here)

Art is the only one that seems on point, i.e. why motor coaches are used on long haul routes, although not the answer why they were replaced on 877/888 by the apparently impossible Axess buses with high seats.

Like I said, ask Melinda Metzger.

For one thing I'm not arguing about anything, nor did I miss anything since 755/855 as established is already set with what type of equipment is used based on the history of the 855 and Pace contracting out some of its services. Bushunter's mention of the 282 notwithstanding I was speaking strictly of Pace's plan to enhance bus service along the I-90 corridor the focus of this thread. That being said, my only point is if the question is what model should be acquired for any additional buses beyond the 15 Axess Express style buses Pace already has to expand express bus service on I-90 after the Tollway project widening the shoulder is done, that there is already a precedent both here and in other places for highback seats inside a transit style bus and using that if one is going to go mainly with the comfort argument as Art was getting at about 755 and 855. Just make them one door like those already here, wrap them in the 'bus uses the shoulder' wraps like on the current routes that operate on highway shoulders and call it a day. Now if one wanted to get into why 877 and 888 no longer use coaches but now use most of the current Axxess Express models on hand, then yeah it probably has to do with 877 and 888 being regular Pace fares or in Pace verbiage "Regular/Express", while 755 and 855 are premium, which is the point I think you're quick to say someone is missing if it's not explicitly stated in their response. So in that respect, if one or more of the newer express routes along the I-90 corridor was made premium fare, some form of coach use would probably become more likely.

[MetroShadow]

Guys!!! To sum up about the Axess buses, 15 of them (6377-6391) are equipped with high black coach like seats ok! I don't understand how is that relevant to this topic but Pace is equipped with buses that will be compatible with these new routes.

The buses serve the same functionality as the OTR Coaches. Either way, you have a bus that operates and that's what matters (and not worthy of the foamers).

[Busjack]

The buses serve the same functionality as the OTR Coaches. Either way, you have a bus that operates and that's what matters (and not worthy of the foamers).

Other than, as art points out, whether it has a can, and also the seating capacity (the wheel wells not intruding into the seating area in a motor coach). You can seat 49 in a 40 foot MCI, I doubt much over 30 in the depicted Axess.

I recall the board meeting where there were complaints about 35' buses (with bench seats) on 600 and 606.

[MetroShadow]

Other than, as art points out, whether it has a can, and also the seating capacity (the wheel wells not intruding into the seating area in a motor coach). You can seat 49 in a 40 foot MCI, I doubt much over 30 in the depicted Axess.

I recall the board meeting where there were complaints about 35' buses (with bench seats) on 600 and 606.

Those complaints are far and wide on those (honestly I would've just kept the 35' Orions since the NABI's are junk on those routes). Still an availability and fleet issue against the rest of the system; and to put 30' on a "core" route is poor execution.

I think the 6323's have 37 seats and the 6377's have about the same, but still need the bench seats in the front.

[Busjack]

...

I think the 6323's have 37 seats and the 6377's have about the same, but still need the bench seats in the front.

Only reason would be for wheelchair positions.

[BusHunter]

What Jajuan says makes the most sense that they are paying a premium fare so they feel they should have a premium bus. I wasn't aware that there is more seating capacity on a MCI. So maybe this in a way is a way to have more riders per bus kind of like an artic. So if the service doesn't warrant an MCI, (a dud) it shouldn't get any. The only thing with that is that the #282's are very popular and could use MCI's themselves based on that notion. The canning on the #154 seems to be contributing to this. I wonder how many runs go to the ballpark now, it seems like 10 plus.

[MetroShadow]

What Jajuan says makes the most sense that they are paying a premium fare so they feel they should have a premium bus. I wasn't aware that there is more seating capacity on a MCI. So maybe this in a way is a way to have more riders per bus kind of like an artic. So if the service doesn't warrant an MCI, (a dud) it shouldn't get any. The only thing with that is that the #282's are very popular and could use MCI's themselves based on that notion. The canning on the #154 seems to be contributing to this. I wonder how many runs go to the ballpark now, it seems like 10 plus.

No (comfortable) standee positions on an MCI. the service standards don't warrant it, plus there's no availability of equipment (especially during rush hours).

[artthouwill]

Umm the coach style seats can be installed inside the Axess Express models if that's the main argument for going with a high-floor coach over a more traditional transit style bus built to operate on a highway and one wants to go from a comfort point of view. Sound Transit's NF DE40LF #9200 proves that. If Sound Transit, which operates express bus routes that connect the Seattle-Tacoma area with the rest of King County as well as nearby Pierce and Snohomish Counties in Washington State, can buy transit buses with seats that aren't the hard plastic types it is possible for Pace to do so to operate its longer distance express routes that do reach 30 miles plus.

It's not about the seats per se. As stated before, the 755/855 is a premium service which should get a premium vehicle. When Pace first bought the 6900s, it was for the 877/888 and for years this worked well. I don't know what the thinking was behind getting the Axxess express buses (maybe a cheaper option) but they are primarily on 877/888 with a couple sitting at Heritage possibly for spares.

I know we are all transit fans and the majority here are transit bus enthusiasts, and while I am too, most of my professional life has been with motor coaches and I believe they are a better product. Again, a growing amount of transit agencies (Houston, L.A.) are buying motor coach buses for their suburban express service. It's to the point that both MCI and Prevost offer Commuter Coach bus versions of their D4500 and X3 45 coaches respectively.

[jajuan]

It's not about the seats per se. As stated before, the 755/855 is a premium service which should get a premium vehicle. When Pace first bought the 6900s, it was for the 877/888 and for years this worked well. I don't know what the thinking was behind getting the Axxess express buses (maybe a cheaper option) but they are primarily on 877/888 with a couple sitting at Heritage possibly for spares.

I know we are all transit fans and the majority here are transit bus enthusiasts, and while I am too, most of my professional life has been with motor coaches and I believe they are a better product. Again, a growing amount of transit agencies (Houston, L.A.) are buying motor coach buses for their suburban express service. It's to the point that both MCI and Prevost offer Commuter Coach bus versions of their D4500 and X3 45 coaches respectively.

I get the whole coaches making a better choice for longer distance express services like a 755 or 855, but when it comes to suburban express routes that don't cover those types of distances either one is just as good as the other and I can see Pace opting on running a transit style bus over a coach. The 877/888 anomaly as I mentioned in my post after this one can probably be explained away as those two not being premium fare express, so Pace probably figured why put premium equipment on express services with the same fares as its standard routes. And from what I understand when it comes to transit agencies in other cities and metro areas opting for coaches on the suburban express services, those tend to be, more often than not, suburban express routes covering distances comparable to what's seen here with the 755 and 855. Otherwise they still do put transit buses on their suburban express routes, in some cases the buses being the one door "suburban" style transit buses but still transit buses all the same.

[ctrabs74]

Well you haven't made your point clear because I still don't see it or even know why you are pro MCI. Obviously Pace ordered both buses because they are trying to find out what's better themselves. To me the point is this both buses have the same seats one is high floor, one has use for luggage one don't. One requires that you are able bodied to climb stairs and can lift a stroller if need be. One has a traditional hydraulic lift, one has a simple ramp for wheelchairs. One costs more one don't. Maybe they feel they have to drive the Hummer of buses or driver's will not let them down the shoulder. But to me the Axess' are doing the job cheaper, more efficiently and the comfort is not sacrificed, so I don't believe riders are riding MCI's because it's nice "hummer" like ability. Looks like the Orions do pretty well on the #282 and those riders have some long rides.

I don't necessarily agree with the entire train of thought here.

An Axess seats only 41 while an MCI D4500CT seats 57. That's 16 fewer seats on a bus that you say is "more efficient" for a regional express bus service. That essentially means that, for a line that carries 200 people per day, you'd have to use five Axess coaches as opposed to four MCI coaches.

[jajuan]

I don't necessarily agree with the entire train of thought here.

An Axess seats only 41 while an MCI D4500CT seats 57. That's 16 fewer seats on a bus that you say is "more efficient" for a regional express bus service. That essentially means that, for a line that carries 200 people per day, you'd have to use five Axess coaches as opposed to four MCI coaches.

Actually I think Pace is looking at it as a bus is a bus because when the 877/888 changed from coaches to transit buses, I don't think they changed the headways or the number of trips provided. Any increase in the number of buses used I believe was already in effect when the coaches were still used on those two routes. I think the same might have been true of the 757 and the former 747 when those both went from contractors to West Division resulting in transit buses being used instead of the prior use of coaches that I remember had been used in the past.

[Busjack]

Actually I think Pace is looking at it as a bus is a bus because when the 877/888 changed from coaches to transit buses, I don't think they changed the headways or the number of trips provided.....

They might have found out that the passenger traffic went down. But essentially it wasn't explained why they went from the leased motor coaches (6910 series) to the Axess Express buses.

Obviously a bus is not a bus when good results on 755/855 resulted in changing service. They aren't still running 2700s (classified as "a smaller bus on this trip") there.

[jajuan]

They might have found out that the passenger traffic went down. But essentially it wasn't explained why they went from the leased motor coaches (6910 series) to the Axess Express buses.

Obviously a bus is not a bus when good results on 755/855 resulted in changing service. They aren't still running 2700s (classified as "a smaller bus on this trip") there.

True on that last part, but I never understood running 2700s on 755/855 to begin with. The two Axxess Express used I can see a heck of a lot more than 2700s.

[MetroShadow]

True on that last part, but I never understood running 2700s on 755/855 to begin with. The two Axxess Express used I can see a heck of a lot more than 2700s.

Overflow. But this was well before the axcessi or the replacement OTRs showed up.

[BusHunter]

WGN also said Quinn signed legislation to approve the Bus on Shoulder program for all expressways and toll roads but i can't seem to find an internet story on that.

[Busjack]

WGN also said Quinn signed legislation to approve the Bus on Shoulder program for all expressways and toll roads but i can't seem to find an internet story on that.

The only official source is the Public Act,. which has been posted.

As that reflects, the only thing done was to strike the pilot program and temporary language, but Quinn takes credit for anything these days.

[BusHunter]

The only official source is the Public Act,. which has been posted.

As that reflects, the only thing done was to strike the pilot program and temporary language, but Quinn takes credit for anything these days.

WGN said he signed it today. So does this mean they can run buses on the shoulders of any expressway or toll road around Chicago? Like a fire truck has the ability to use a shoulder if need be?

[Busjack]

WGN said he signed it today. So does this mean they can run buses on the shoulders of any expressway or toll road around Chicago? Like a fire truck has the ability to use a shoulder if need be?

A prior traffic law amendment gave them the last privilege.

But apparently you didn't read the underlined, added part, that:

"The Department [of Transportation] shall prescribe by

rule which transit buses are authorized to operate on

shoulders, as well as times and locations. The Department may

erect signage to indicate times and locations of designated

shoulder usage."

So, depending on the rules, conditions such as that there have to be overhead signs and the buses have to be wrapped do not seem to have been changed.

[MetroShadow]

WGN said he signed it today. So does this mean they can run buses on the shoulders of any expressway or toll road around Chicago? Like a fire truck has the ability to use a shoulder if need be?

Provided there is enough space that has been created (I.e. Establish enough width for buses to travel). This doesn't fully give transit that ROW, but establishes the right to make the infrastructure necessary.

Edit: Jack practically answered the point; but also did explain why there were two 6950's in the UIC lot.

[jajuan]

A prior traffic law amendment gave them the last privilege.

But apparently you didn't read the underlined, added part, that:

"The Department [of Transportation] shall prescribe by

rule which transit buses are authorized to operate on

shoulders, as well as times and locations. The Department may

erect signage to indicate times and locations of designated

shoulder usage."

So, depending on the rules, conditions such as that there have to be overhead signs and the buses have to be wrapped do not seem to have been changed.

So basically it sounds like they cleaned up some language in the previous version of the legislation if I'm understanding the thrust of the conversation correctly.

[Busjack]

So basically it sounds like they cleaned up some language in the previous version of the legislation if I'm understanding the thrust of the conversation correctly.

The thrust of the Public Act is that the language reflecting the pilot program previously authorized by the struck matter was deleted. Since the legislature wasn't going to micromanage which expressways get service, IDOT was given authority to establish rules on where BOS may operate [but that authority was also granted to IDOT during the pilot program by struck subsection b].

There was prior discussion about whether BOS would be allowed on the Edens Expressway,and this basically says that IDOT can set the terms for allowing that.

[artthouwill]

Wednesday I was driving SB on I-55, I believe somewhere west of County Line Rd. Northbound traffic was snarled. I saw what I thougtht were state trpp[ers riding the NB left shoulder, but then behind them were three motorcoach buses with their hazards on, followed by another two troopers with sirens on. My experience told me that the buses were carrying some sort of professional team, as they are the only ones that get such escort service. I was curuous not only about what team it could be (since the Bears and Jacksonville played last nigth), but also how they took advantage of the Pace bus use of the left shoulder/ Just minutes before I saw them, I had seen a Pace motor coach deadheading back downtown also using the left shoulder.

Thursday evening around 6 p.m., I saw a similar motorcade turning from southbound Ashland to eastbound Cermak. At first I thought maybe it was the Jacksonville Jaguars going to Soldier Field and they were avoiimg traffic, but I have come to the conclusion that the motorcade I saw both days contained the Team USA Basketball team/ I believe they were leaving the United Center and were heading either to the Hyatt McCormick or some other place possibly for some sort of function. They were supposed to have some event at 63rd Street Beach probably took that arouting to avoid Bears traffic).