February System Pick

[Busjack]

People need to call their respective alderman to complain I've sent e-mails to Jessie Jackson Jr, and Bobby Rush, this is not going to be pretty especially when the weather gets bad. Ask Toni Preckwinkle why she hasn't said anything, 3 oof those routes run through her ward, the x3,x4,x55.

It would help if someone out there couild get a copy of the new schedules so they can be posted on this site to get the info out to the public and the media before its to late.

The real question is who has any money to reinstate service. The alderperson and county board candidates might be able to make a stink, but they don't have the money. I don't think you have written to anyone who can do anything effective.

Theoretically, the only people who can allocate operating funds are your state legislators and the governor. However, since it is claimed that the state is already $9-13 Billion in the hole, and reportedly isn't paying its social services and Medicaid contractors, I don't see where money is going to come from there. Quinn made the big splash about putting the RTA into hock to keep fares from rising. In that nothing was said about doing the same for service cuts, and the push toward them has continued, I don't see anything immediately happening in that direction.

My bet is that the politicians will see what their status is after the Feb. 2 primary and Feb. 7 service cuts, and then stick us with a big tax increase effective July 1, and then, like Todd Stroger, say everything is fixed.

[Busjack]

With regard to L cars, the question is whether they will be cutting rush hour frequency, and, if so, whether there will be longer trains. There may be lines where 6 car trains can go to 8, although which ones don't come to my mind at the moment (the Green Line seems too infrequent now, but that may be a possibility on the Harlem-Ashland/63 route). However, as in the case of Krambles implying that there would still be 2000s to replace after the 3200s were received, but in fact there were not, maybe you are right that the attrition of 2200s may be quicker than implied by the 5000 delivery schedule.

Looking at the L list, it appears that the only lines affected rush hour are the Green and Pink, sort of like I implied. Since longer trains can be run there, I wonder if, as I said, they probably would, and thus there wouldn't be the impetus to retire cars otherwise thought.

[Busjack]

Another interesting tidbit is they mention midday frequency changes for 1 and 2, but they're currently rush hour only service routes. 3, 4, 9, 20, 49, 53A, 54, 55 and 80 are listed to get weekday interval increases to acoount for the X routes they parallel being eliminated even though I thought it was just X9, X49, X55 and X80 that got increased service a few months back in return for those respective locals being reduced during the service times of the express runs.

Also, someone did a bad "cut and paste" job on 55. Unless they redefined "mid morning," 120-123 only run rush.

[New Flyer]

Toni Preckwinkle sent a message saying she got my e-mail and would get back to me

[jajuan]

The real question is who has any money to reinstate service. The alderperson and county board candidates might be able to make a stink, but they don't have the money. I don't think you have written to anyone who can do anything effective.

Theoretically, the only people who can allocate operating funds are your state legislators and the governor. However, since it is claimed that the state is already $9-13 Billion in the hole, and reportedly isn't paying its social services and Medicaid contractors, I don't see where money is going to come from there. Quinn made the big splash about putting the RTA into hock to keep fares from rising. In that nothing was said about doing the same for service cuts, and the push toward them has continued, I don't see anything immediately happening in that direction.

My bet is that the politicians will see what their status is after the Feb. 2 primary and Feb. 7 service cuts, and then stick us with a big tax increase effective July 1, and then, like Todd Stroger, say everything is fixed.

Unfortunately, Busjack has a point. Compared to what the state government puts into public transit, the city and Cook County put in peanuts and thus don't have much influence in terms of money. The City of Chicago has only been putting in a mere $3 million annually at least as long as Daley's time as Mayor, which is 22 years and counting. Yet it is something how the Mayor has control over who goes into the top spots at CTA. I'll not get into that one right now, but in any event there's not much the aldermen can do but put up a fuss.

[jajuan]

Also, someone did a bad "cut and paste" job on 55. Unless they redefined "mid morning," 120-123 only run rush.

I noticed those too. 55 is stated to get its increase because of X54 Cicero Express being cut when clearly it should say X55 Garfield Express. If they can't even take the time to proofread what they put up how the heck do they figure people are supposed to have a clear picture of what is going on? Seriously even a high schooler should know how to proofread his work. Those are beyond a simple typo that any of us might be guilty of from time to time.

[Busjack]

Unfortunately, Busjack has a point. Compared to what the state government puts into public transit, the city and Cook County put in peanuts and thus don't have much influence in terms of money. The City of Chicago has only been putting in a mere $3 million annually at least as long as Daley's time as Mayor, which is 22 years and counting. Yet it is something how the Mayor has control over who goes into the top spots at CTA. I'll not get into that one right now, but in any event there's not much the aldermen can do but put up a fuss.

When a couple of people were making a stink on the CTA Tattler that Evanston and Skokie should be paying in, I finally came to the realization that the local contributions are a joke, because one way or the other, the taxpayers are paying it. Either the RTA sales tax goes up, or some city tax goes up to cover the contribution.

As far as who controls it, I made that point before, so I won't repeat it either. As far as the aldermen, I remember the fiasco about some alderman calling the head of the RTA on the carpet for not keeping Daley, via TIF and CTA, from throwing money down the Block 37 hole.

[trainman8119]

Seriously even a high schooler should know how to proofread his work. Those are beyond a simple typo that any of us might be guilty of from time to time.

I can attest to people not proofreading. If anyone get the chance to be at one of the Metra stations accepting credit cards, take a close look at the banners and posters trumpeting this. All of the pictures used are reverse negatives (ie. like looking at the pics in a mirror). Looking closely, the Electric District cars in the pic show the window on the opposite side, and the engines in the pics have the numbers reversed and "Metra" reversed. Good example of proofreading before displaying !!!

[sw4400]

I spoke to a NP Bus Operator who stopped into my store last night, and word from him is that Western is assigned to NP from Berwyn all the way to 79th effective Feb. 7th or 8th.

[cta_44499_FG]

I spoke to a NP Bus Operator who stopped into my store last night, and word from him is that Western is assigned to NP from Berwyn all the way to 79th effective Feb. 7th or 8th.

49 is split between North Park/74th.

[Busjack]

He said NP to 79th(end of Western). Again, if this is so, are you saying if I boarded a #49 at Berwyn and wanted to go to 79th, I'd have to pay fare at Berwyn, get off at some point south of Madison, board another #49 and pay another fare?

I'm going to say NP to 79th(as told to me by said NP Bus Operator), as a split between garages will be costly for passengers.

The two are not inconsistent.

Nobody is splitting the 49 route (in the sense of a 49C from Berwyn to Madison and a 49D between 79th and Madison).

Some 49s will start their day from 74th and go from 79th to Berwyn and back again. Others will start at Foster and go from Berwyn to 79th and back again. The CTA was able to do that in 1975, they can do it again.

Apparently this is the second time you failed to grasp the concept.

[New Flyer]

All buses will go all the way through with North Park making reliefs at Foster and 74th making reliefs at 69th like they used to.

[cta_44499_FG]

He said NP to 79th(end of Western). Again, if this is so, are you saying if I boarded a #49 at Berwyn and wanted to go to 79th, I'd have to pay fare at Berwyn, get off at some point south of Madison, board another #49 and pay another fare?

I'm going to say NP to 79th(as told to me by said NP Bus Operator), as a split between garages will be costly for passengers.

No. I said the route is split between North Park and 74th garage. What does that have to do with how the route goes?

The route is just going to be shared between garages. Nothing more nothing less.

[cta_44499_FG]

Some 49s will start their day from 74th and go from 79th to Berwyn and back again. Others will start at Foster and go from Berwyn to 79th and back again. The CTA was able to do that in 1975, they can do it again.

Apparently this is the second time you failed to grasp the concept.

North Park reliefs with be in the terminal at Berwyn. 49B will still be at Foster.

[rmadisonwi]

All buses will go all the way through with North Park making reliefs at Foster and 74th making reliefs at 69th like they used to.

No. The reliefs will be made in the terminals, except that 74th garage buses will pull in/out during off-peak times, because it's easier than getting drivers to ride 2-3 buses to get to 79th/Western.

As for the confusion (and, for the life of me, I can't figure out why) about North Park/74th splitting the #49, think of it this way. If I get on a 151 at Foster and want to go downtown, do I have to get off at Belmont and transfer to a Kedzie bus to go the rest of the way?

All #49 trips (with the exception of school trips, and possible emergency short-turns) will operate the entire length of the route. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

[Busjack]

...

As for the confusion (and, for the life of me, I can't figure out why) about North Park/74th splitting the #49, think of it this way. If I get on a 151 at Foster and want to go downtown, do I have to get off at Belmont and transfer to a Kedzie bus to go the rest of the way?

All #49 trips (with the exception of school trips, and possible emergency short-turns) will operate the entire length of the route. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

You'll get a negative 1, too. --Sorry, I see that 3 other people outvoted that one.

In fact it will be less likely to have to transfer under the 1975/2010 system than now, since certain X49s only go to Archer. The current 49 schedule indicates the same with the A legend "A - trip ends or begins at Archer/Western at time shown."

[artthouwill]

You'll get a negative 1, too. --Sorry, I see that 3 other people outvoted that one.

In fact it will be less likely to have to transfer under the 1975/2010 system than now, since certain X49s only go to Archer. The current 49 schedule indicates the same with the A legend "A - trip ends or begins at Archer/Western at time shown."

Remember though that the schedule will be redone, hence those A legend trips will be gone. Besides, if a bus comes that doesn't run the length of the route, and you are going beyond that bus' short turn, why would you get on that bus? For instance, you are downtown and see a 151 Sheridan at Lake Shore and Goethe that is going as far as Belmont, but YOU want to go to Lake Shore and Grace. Why would you get on that bus when you could simply wait for the next one?

Again the schedules will be redone so that almost all of the buses will run the entire length of the route (except for school trippers). Also note that before the 8 went to K from 74th (69th), all 8s went to 79th and then short turned to pull in at 74th or 69th (back in the day) if it was a pullin, otherwise reliefs were made at 74th or 69th. When K took over, the schedule was adjusted so that currently the 8s that pull in will terminate at Harrison. When the 8 and K split goes into effect, both will take place, but which buses do what will be according to the garage that it originates from.

With the 49 being a short distance from garages on both ends of the route, there is no need to short turn any bus for pullins. This is not a hard concept. No intra route transfers necessary except for the former X49 riders riding from north of 79th to 95th. THEY will have to transfer at 79th to the 49A/349.

[Busjack]

Remember though that the schedule will be redone, hence those A legend trips will be gone.

That was my point.

[jajuan]

Are we reading each other's posts all the way through before responding? A number of those last few were cross explanations to those of us that understood the split (shared) route coverage concept after using examples from current or previous garage assignments to explain the concept to those who didn't grasp if from how it's done on routes that get shared across garages now. But seriously, something popped to mind while passing through downturn this morning. With a number of routes going on the shared garage list to accomodate reassigning what will be left of current Archer routes into new garages, will some that are now split continue to be, like 108 between 103rd and 74th, 121 and 123 between Chicago and 103rd? Another thing I thought of is those who live north of Devon along Sheridan Rd get even less bus service than what happened with Booz-Allen and in a weird way if I'm right that CTA overlooked something. At least after Booz-Allen, they still had 151 going up to Howard in the late even during those years before the Lake Shore restructings of 2003 that saw 147 tweaked until getting the current schedule and 151 only going to Howard Sunday late evenings. Now we have 147 getting cut back to 10:30pm Mon-Sat, with no mention that 151 will take the slack similar to at least post Booz-Allen or that the 151 Sunday Howard trips get cut to be on par with 147's reduced Mon-Sat service hours. Did this get overlooked or will one of two things happen that CTA failed to communicate: 1) 151 does get Monday-Saturday Howard trips again until approximately midnight on a limited frequency to match that they didn't say they were pulling the approximately 8pm-midnight trips to Howard only that 151 will operate less frequently; or 2) the 151 trips to Howard on Sundays do get cut to match that there would be no bus service on Sheridan Monday-Saturday until midnight north of Devon, so why still have it that late on just Sunday via a 151? Somehow though I think the CTA brass missed something here because the service change info for 147 and 151 don't give any indication that foresaw this snafu. You guys can check it out on the website to see what I mean.

[Busjack]

Now we have 147 getting cut back to 10:30pm Mon-Sat, with no mention that 151 will take the slack similar to at least post Booz-Allen or that the 151 Sunday Howard trips get cut to be on par with 147's reduced Mon-Sat service hours. Did this get overlooked ...

I think the issue is whether they figure that the Red Line will take up the slack, since north of Devon it is only two or three blocks west of Sheridan. In effect, you had a similar issue when N151 was cut back to Foster. N201 might have been a partial substitute, but that was understandably cut back to Howard when Howard became accessible (although I believe that some of our drivers indicated that a shared taxicab could be used for that, for all the ridership it (didn't) have).

For that matter, it may be similar to ending owl on 29 when they said that the Red Line was close enough on the south side.

[jajuan]

I think the issue is whether they figure that the Red Line will take up the slack, since north of Devon it is only two or three blocks west of Sheridan. In effect, you had a similar issue when N151 was cut back to Foster. N201 might have been a partial substitute, but that was understandably cut back to Howard when Howard became accessible (although I believe that some of our drivers indicated that a shared taxicab could be used for that, for all the ridership it (didn't) have).

For that matter, it may be similar to ending owl on 29 when they said that the Red Line was close enough on the south side.

I get that part. What I mean is the 151 has trips to Howard late Sunday evenings, and the service change info doesn't say that those will be cut back only that 151 is less frequent on Sundays like it will be on the other days of the week starting Feb 7th. So why have bus service on that stretch on late Sunday evenings but cutback at 10:30 the rest of the week? That's the snafu I meant it seems to be overlooked.

[Busjack]

I get that part. What I mean is the 151 has trips to Howard late Sunday evenings, and the service change info doesn't say that those will be cut back only that 151 is less frequent on Sundays like it will be on the other days of the week starting Feb 7th. So why have bus service on that stretch on late Sunday evenings but cutback at 10:30 the rest of the week? That's the snafu I meant it seems to be overlooked.

Given the other obvious messups in the announcement, I think we'll have to wait until the new schedules are posted. This seems like a similar situation to our speculating whether the resources taken away from the locals to the Xs would be restored, and a certain amount of them will (including the X54 to the 55 ).

[jajuan]

Given the other obvious messups in the announcement, I think we'll have to wait until the new schedules are posted. This seems like a similar situation to our speculating whether the resources taken away from the locals to the Xs would be restored, and a certain amount of them will (including the X54 to the 55 ).

True. The only reason for the Howard trips on 151 was the fact that 147 didn't have late evening service on Sundays. So if the 147 is being scaled back Monday-Saturday why still have the 151 Howard trips on Sunday.

[rmadisonwi]

The 151 Sunday service to Howard will end at a time comparable to the last 147 trips Monday-Saturday. As for why details like that aren't being communicated, well, ask Rich Rodriguez about that.

[jajuan]

The 151 Sunday service to Howard will end at a time comparable to the last 147 trips Monday-Saturday. As for why details like that aren't being communicated, well, ask Rich Rodriguez about that.

That makes more sense. Another example that they have chuckleheads working in communications.