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As Kevin Z noted, I hashed this out with Kevin O there. It sort of sounds like CTA is anticipating requirements for a funding program that it recognizes may not be a source of funds for this proj

Oh, I understood your Mark Felt references. It's not exactly obscure history that he was the Deep Throat of the investigation into the Watergate scandal. It's just that analogy didn't/doesn't apply to

I have to say, that's my estimate, so if you want a report, I'm sorry, although I suppose someone could dig into the 3 individual bid documents for the phases of the project. However, you have to

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1 hour ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Lol or they’ll be responsible and start it in May and not in 25 years🤣

It's bad enough there will be no Lawrence or Berwyn/Red line for 3 years!! That I think is the longest closure in history. 

Why didnt they just run the #81 down to broadway and go south to wilson back to sheridan over the regular route the routing they have seems too disruptive to turn at ashland that's alot of stops missed. The #81s gonna have alot of bus bunching. 

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Personally, this project was an opportunity to close, consolidate and focus on other stations. Sheridan is the station on NSML that needs the most work. Lawrence or Argyle could've closed permanently (preferably Lawrence) and so could Granville or Thorndale (preferably Granville). Jarvis could've closed as well. I don't really see the need to rebuild all 4 stations (btwn Law-Bryn). Especially with the dearth of bus services available in the area. I wish they would've also studied the feasibility of a purple line platform at Loyola (which I believe is the longest platform in the system after the State & Dearborn Sts Subways)

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Personally, this project was an opportunity to close, consolidate and focus on other stations. Sheridan is the station on NSML that needs the most work. Lawrence or Argyle could've closed permanently (preferably Lawrence) and so could Granville or Thorndale (preferably Granville). Jarvis could've closed as well. I don't really see the need to rebuild all 4 stations (btwn Law-Bryn). Especially with the dearth of bus services available in the area. I wish they would've also studied the feasibility of a purple line platform at Loyola (which I believe is the longest platform in the system after the State & Dearborn Sts Subways)

Hell if they closed Jarvis and was willing to eat the time cost of having the purple start at Morse you could make Loyola a transfer station without having to build dual platforms. Instead of having the current set up you could have purples board and alight at one half and reds on the other half, have the purple switch at that point to the outer tracks. It’s time cta started seeing about tweaking patterns to the NSM to balance loads

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4 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Hell if they closed Jarvis and was willing to eat the time cost of having the purple start at Morse you could make Loyola a transfer station without having to build dual platforms. Instead of having the current set up you could have purples board and alight at one half and reds on the other half, have the purple switch at that point to the outer tracks. It’s time cta started seeing about tweaking patterns to the NSM to balance loads

I hadn't even thought about that, that would be an excellent use of the cross platform transfer

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Personally, this project was an opportunity to close, consolidate and focus on other stations. Sheridan is the station on NSML that needs the most work. Lawrence or Argyle could've closed permanently (preferably Lawrence) and so could Granville or Thorndale (preferably Granville). Jarvis could've closed as well. I don't really see the need to rebuild all 4 stations (btwn Law-Bryn). Especially with the dearth of bus services available in the area. I wish they would've also studied the feasibility of a purple line platform at Loyola (which I believe is the longest platform in the system after the State & Dearborn Sts Subways)

Lawrence is 1/4 mile from Wilson and from Argyle.  Berwyn is 3/8 mile from Argyle.  Bryn Mawr. THORNDALE, Granville, and Loyola  are  3/8 miles apart .  3_8 miles is greater than 1/4 mile but less than 1/2 mile.

In your scenario. I would keep Lawrence because it's a major street and connects with the 81.  You could lose Argyle and Berwyn  and replace them with a Foster station.  That gives you 1/2 mile between Lawrence and Foster and between Foster and Bryn Mawr.  Since there are no major east west streets between Bryn Mawr and Devon in that high density area, I would keep both Thorndale and Bryn Mawr.

You have to keep in mind the density of the area and remember that at one time that stretch of track had skio stop AB service.  Granville,  Berwyn,  and Lawrence were B stations while Thorndale and Argyle were A stations.   Sheridan would require a total structural rebuilding to make Sheridan an accessible station .  Loyola would also require a total rebuild since you need two new island platforms to support a Purple Line stop.

I suppose it's not possible,  but it would have been interesting to make Argyle and Thorndale side platforms for Purple line service only.  Not a great idea,  but interesting. 

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28 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Hell if they closed Jarvis and was willing to eat the time cost of having the purple start at Morse you could make Loyola a transfer station without having to build dual platforms. Instead of having the current set up you could have purples board and alight at one half and reds on the other half, have the purple switch at that point to the outer tracks. It’s time cta started seeing about tweaking patterns to the NSM to balance loads

Interesting thoughts.  I don't really like it much.  Assuming the Purple had the SB southern portion of the station.   That train could be delayed by a SB Red stopping at the northern portion of the same station.   The idea of the project is to eliminate delays, not create them. To be honest,  I don't think Loyola should be a transfer station,  but that might be the plan.  If possible,  I will rather see some side platforms  where Purple (and not Red] trains would stop like Thorndale and Argyle and passengers could cross transfer at Wilson.   Jarvis or Morse could also have similar side platforms for Purple inky.  This would speed Red Line service,  though that would mean extended hours of Purple service  

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15 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Lawrence is 1/4 mile from Wilson and from Argyle.  Berwyn is 3/8 mile from Argyle.  Bryn Mawr. THORNDALE, Granville, and Loyola  are  3/8 miles apart .  3_8 miles is greater than 1/4 mile but less than 1/2 mile.

In your scenario. I would keep Lawrence because it's a major street and connects with the 81.  You could lose Argyle and Berwyn  and replace them with a Foster station.  That gives you 1/2 mile between Lawrence and Foster and between Foster and Bryn Mawr.  Since there are no major east west streets between Bryn Mawr and Devon in that high density area, I would keep both Thorndale and Bryn Mawr.

You have to keep in mind the density of the area and remember that at one time that stretch of track had skio stop AB service.  Granville,  Berwyn,  and Lawrence were B stations while Thorndale and Argyle were A stations.   Sheridan would require a total structural rebuilding to make Sheridan an accessible station .  Loyola would also require a total rebuild since you need two new island platforms to support a Purple Line stop.

I suppose it's not possible,  but it would have been interesting to make Argyle and Thorndale side platforms for Purple line service only.  Not a great idea,  but interesting. 

Lawrence is literally two blocks from Wilson. The 81 reroute could easily be made permanent and most walk-up riders would only experience maybe an extra 5 mins of walking. Lawrence should be the first station to close. I didn't want to outright propose new stations since that's a whole new ballgame, but I'd definitely support a Foster station. The area is dense, yes, but again, there's ample additional services in the area to compensate for this.

Sheridan does require a total rebuild, which is why I said it should've been more of the focus. CTA has certainly made progress on its ADA accessibility (hadn't realized the entirety of the Green, Pink, Brown, Yellow & Orange Lines were completely ADA-compliant) but considering the location of the station, I'm surprised CTA hasn't been subject to a lawsuit yet. At least after the rebuild, there will be less non-compliant stations: 6 on the Red & Purple Lines, 19 on the Blue Line.

1 minute ago, artthouwill said:

Interesting thoughts.  I don't really like it much.  Assuming the Purple had the SB southern portion of the station.   That train could be delayed by a SB Red stopping at the northern portion of the same station.   The idea of the project is to eliminate delays, not create them. To be honest,  I don't think Loyola should be a transfer station,  but that might be the plan.  If possible,  I will rather see some side platforms  where Purple (and not Red] trains would stop like Thorndale and Argyle and passengers could cross transfer at Wilson.   Jarvis or Morse could also have similar side platforms for Purple inky.  This would speed Red Line service,  though that would mean extended hours of Purple service  

My interest in Loyola wasn't actually as a transfer station, but as a stop for Evanston and Loop riders getting to the university.

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4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Lawrence is literally two blocks from Wilson. The 81 reroute could easily be made permanent and most walk-up riders would only experience maybe an extra 5 mins of walking. Lawrence should be the first station to close. I didn't want to outright propose new stations since that's a whole new ballgame, but I'd definitely support a Foster station. The area is dense, yes, but again, there's ample additional services in the area to compensate for this.

Sheridan does require a total rebuild, which is why I said it should've been more of the focus. CTA has certainly made progress on its ADA accessibility (hadn't realized the entirety of the Green, Pink, Brown, Yellow & Orange Lines were completely ADA-compliant) but considering the location of the station, I'm surprised CTA hasn't been subject to a lawsuit yet. At least after the rebuild, there will be less non-compliant stations: 6 on the Red & Purple Lines, 19 on the Blue Line.

My interest in Loyola wasn't actually as a transfer station, but as a stop for Evanston and Loop riders getting to the university.

I know Lawrence is 2 blocks from Wilson.   But Lawrence has  plenty of businesses. Especially from Broadway west.  Even though Wilson was rebuilt, we know Wilson and Broadway isn't the safest place.   I would rather wait for a treat Lawrence than Wilson.   I think Lawrence is more worthy of a station than Argyle.  I can see your point rerouting 81 via Broadway,  Wilson,  and Sheridan back to Lawrence. Or Wilson to Maribe, then WB Lawrence,  Sheridan  Wilson. Broadway. Lawrence. 

I suppose Sheridan could be done in two stages. But its such a choke point, I don't know any easy way to redo that station.  Do you straighten the  S curve and build a new station there or relocate the station to Irvine Park,  which I think would be a better place to put a new station

  The question is do you build a single island platform for Red Line trains only, or two island platforms for Red Line and Purple line trains.  Seems like a single platform would be best, since Wilson is the next station to the North  and it has Purple line service..  Purple service can always switch tracks SB and serve Addison for Cub night games.   This minimizes costs and saves time with minimal disruption. 

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10 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Personally, this project was an opportunity to close, consolidate and focus on other stations. Sheridan is the station on NSML that needs the most work. Lawrence or Argyle could've closed permanently (preferably Lawrence) and so could Granville or Thorndale (preferably Granville). Jarvis could've closed as well. I don't really see the need to rebuild all 4 stations (btwn Law-Bryn). Especially with the dearth of bus services available in the area. I wish they would've also studied the feasibility of a purple line platform at Loyola (which I believe is the longest platform in the system after the State & Dearborn Sts Subways)

At one time, they were going to build an entrance to Granville at Glenlake & permanently close Thorndale.  Why that never happened is a mystery.  Maybe during the reconstruction they will finally do that.

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9 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I know Lawrence is 2 blocks from Wilson.   But Lawrence has  plenty of businesses. Especially from Broadway west.  Even though Wilson was rebuilt, we know Wilson and Broadway isn't the safest place.   I would rather wait for a treat Lawrence than Wilson.   I think Lawrence is more worthy of a station than Argyle.  I can see your point rerouting 81 via Broadway,  Wilson,  and Sheridan back to Lawrence. Or Wilson to Maribe, then WB Lawrence,  Sheridan  Wilson. Broadway. Lawrence. 

I suppose Sheridan could be done in two stages. But its such a choke point, I don't know any easy way to redo that station.  Do you straighten the  S curve and build a new station there or relocate the station to Irvine Park,  which I think would be a better place to put a new station

  The question is do you build a single island platform for Red Line trains only, or two island platforms for Red Line and Purple line trains.  Seems like a single platform would be best, since Wilson is the next station to the North  and it has Purple line service..  Purple service can always switch tracks SB and serve Addison for Cub night games.   This minimizes costs and saves time with minimal disruption. 

From personal experience as a child, I don't rate Lawrence that much safer. Lawrence and Wilson used to be my stops as a child when my mother would take me to the boys and girls club while she worked at hull house (in fact, she worked around Magnolia & Leland). Lawrence has businesses, yes, but nothing immediately surrounding the station will be made immediately inaccessible and riders headed west will still have bus access. Maybe a police booth at Wilson station to give the presence of safety while people wait for the 78 or 81? I do think Lawrence is more "worthy" station than Argyle to be honest. My original solution would've been to close Wilson, but they rebuilt it, so that's DOA. 

With Sheridan, I'm not sure there's a way to straighten the curve without using ED. And while the curve does slow down trains, it's not the core issue, it's the station itself. I'd support moving it north & renaming it Irving Park, if there's no way to get the land to straighten the curve. And it should be easier to do that, since it won't need to be rebuilt with 2 island platforms, just 1. 

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7 hours ago, strictures said:

At one time, they were going to build an entrance to Granville at Glenlake & permanently close Thorndale.  Why that never happened is a mystery.  Maybe during the reconstruction they will finally do that.

Yes, I remember something about that as well. Shame that didn't happen. I can only assume that if this idea was officially floated, residents complained.

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22 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

 

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Thanks. I guess they figured not too many people will migrate to the express buses if they didn’t mention any nearby routes getting beefed up. I wonder if they will when ridership goes back up because I doubt the same number of trains can fit through here

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

From personal experience as a child, I don't rate Lawrence that much safer. Lawrence and Wilson used to be my stops as a child when my mother would take me to the boys and girls club while she worked at hull house (in fact, she worked around Magnolia & Leland). Lawrence has businesses, yes, but nothing immediately surrounding the station will be made immediately inaccessible and riders headed west will still have bus access. Maybe a police booth at Wilson station to give the presence of safety while people wait for the 78 or 81? I do think Lawrence is more "worthy" station than Argyle to be honest. My original solution would've been to close Wilson, but they rebuilt it, so that's DOA. 

With Sheridan, I'm not sure there's a way to straighten the curve without using ED. And while the curve does slow down trains, it's not the core issue, it's the station itself. I'd support moving it north & renaming it Irving Park, if there's no way to get the land to straighten the curve. And it should be easier to do that, since it won't need to be rebuilt with 2 island platforms, just 1. 

I don't think Wilson would ever have been closed with Truman College steps from the station.

If a new station was built on the north side of Irving Park to replace Sheridan,  CTA might be able to get away with retaining S curve.  Money for land acquisition would be saved.  The curve would still need to be rebuilt IMO,  BUT if straightening the curve is doable. I'm not against it. 

I remember taking the train to Lawrence to go see my dad at Lakeland Nursing home at Lawrence near Clarendon.   When I was much younger, trips to the Riviera, the Aragon  or even Rainbow Roller Rink was  common.  I used to go to a club called AKA at the corner of Rosemont and Broadway,  but I would use the Loyola station even though Granville was closer.  Being from the South side,  I knew shady when I see it and Granville was one of the North side's shadiest stations.  I would use Granville during the day,  but never at night.

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44 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I don't think Wilson would ever have been closed with Truman College steps from the station.

If a new station was built on the north side of Irving Park to replace Sheridan,  CTA might be able to get away with retaining S curve.  Money for land acquisition would be saved.  The curve would still need to be rebuilt IMO,  BUT if straightening the curve is doable. I'm not against it. 

I remember taking the train to Lawrence to go see my dad at Lakeland Nursing home at Lawrence near Clarendon.   When I was much younger, trips to the Riviera, the Aragon  or even Rainbow Roller Rink was  common.  I used to go to a club called AKA at the corner of Rosemont and Broadway,  but I would use the Loyola station even though Granville was closer.  Being from the South side,  I knew shady when I see it and Granville was one of the North side's shadiest stations.  I would use Granville during the day,  but never at night.

That's what I think CTA would do. I honestly don't expect the curve to be straightened. My main concern was with Sheridan station itself, which might currently be one of the most dilapidated in the system, other than the non-ADA purple line stops.

It took me coming back when I was older to ride the red line north of Argyle and I couldn't imagine Granville today looking like anything you describe it as. Just wow.

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56 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Thanks. I guess they figured not too many people will migrate to the express buses if they didn’t mention any nearby routes getting beefed up. I wonder if they will when ridership goes back up because I doubt the same number of trains can fit through here

Well, the 81 & 92 got new schedules recently, so maybe additional runs were built in? The 147 did as well, and if you're living north of Berwyn, the 147 is definitely a faster way to get downtown

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25 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Well, the 81 & 92 got new schedules recently, so maybe additional runs were built in? The 147 did as well, and if you're living north of Berwyn, the 147 is definitely a faster way to get downtown

Any new runs would happen during the rail pick made for construction like with the Dan Ryan shut down. The next regular bus pick is in June. Just seems mighty close to not have that released. At least with the Ryan shut down even before detailed schedules came out they had a list of what would be getting beefed up each related news update. 

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On 4/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Personally, this project was an opportunity to close, consolidate and focus on other stations. Sheridan is the station on NSML that needs the most work. Lawrence or Argyle could've closed permanently (preferably Lawrence) and so could Granville or Thorndale (preferably Granville). Jarvis could've closed as well. I don't really see the need to rebuild all 4 stations (btwn Law-Bryn). Especially with the dearth of bus services available in the area. I wish they would've also studied the feasibility of a purple line platform at Loyola (which I believe is the longest platform in the system after the State & Dearborn Sts Subways)

They did study making Loyola a transfer station didn't they? Every alternative I saw aside from the Broadway two-track subway involved making Loyola a transfer station. Praying that that is still the plan. Guess we'll find out whenever Phase 2 is announced. I also thought it'd have made sense to do the same with Bryn Mawr but that ship has sailed.

I strongly supported the stop consolidation too but if we get frequent all-day express service I think the trip times become less of an issue. More people need access to the express trains though which is why the transfers at Loyola (and Bryn Mawr, theoretically) are so important. Then send Purple into the State subway and it can provide real capacity relief for the Red while not wasting the express time savings as it does currently on the Brown Line.

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2 hours ago, juliosnoop1717 said:

They did study making Loyola a transfer station didn't they? Every alternative I saw aside from the Broadway two-track subway involved making Loyola a transfer station. Praying that that is still the plan. Guess we'll find out whenever Phase 2 is announced. I also thought it'd have made sense to do the same with Bryn Mawr but that ship has sailed.

I strongly supported the stop consolidation too but if we get frequent all-day express service I think the trip times become less of an issue. More people need access to the express trains though which is why the transfers at Loyola (and Bryn Mawr, theoretically) are so important. Then send Purple into the State subway and it can provide real capacity relief for the Red while not wasting the express time savings as it does currently on the Brown Line.

Once the non stop ride from Howard to the mart that was it. We also gotta remember express doesn’t always mean faster but sometimes it’s a way to separate capacity. Biggest example are the 143, and 148 or the 130s vs 156. Even the times where those buses get stuck in traffic (and thus matching local speed) the fact that those people aren’t all waiting on one route( the parent route these buses were designed to support) and thus save equipment. Same with purple. A study showed that putting purple in the subway wouldn’t be a speed gain BUT substituting more purples for reds on the north end adds capacity to the Howard branch without sending unnecessary service in the reverse peak

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16 more days till kickoff here’s the official update 

•95th Bound Trains will share track with southbound purple line express trains between thorndale and sheridan 

•Howard Bound Trains will share track with northbound purple line express between sheridan and thorndale 

•at wilson the east platform will close all trains will use the 95th/Loop bound platform board southbound trains on the outer track board northbound trains on the inner track on the west platform 

—————————————————————————

•#92 Foster Buses Will be rerouted to bryn mawr red line via foster broadway to bryn mawr 

•#81 buses will be rerouted in both directions to serve wilson station via lawrence-ashland-wilson-broadway-lawrence 

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