Jump to content

2011 Electric Bus Procurement


Busjack

Recommended Posts

  • 2 months later...

Word is the first of the CTA X(B?)40 units is currently on the production line at NFI St Cloud. No known delivery date or fleet #. It sounds like a "you'll see them when CTA shows them" situation. Not that we would expect otherwise ^_^

They're supposed to debut in 2013. If true, then I look for both to be on CTA property in December, 2013 with testing to begin then or January, 2014. There is only supposed to be two, so it'll be interesting to see the fleet numbers... could they use 600 and 601 or maybe 700 and 701? I think it will be a three-digit number series.

Buses are New Flyer XE40LF or XE40LFR, the Xcelsior body style of New Flyer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The discussion is on the Canadian Bus forum here http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=11378&st=880&p=620977&#entry620977 (at post #888) Someone who toured the factory stated it was 70 percent completed. New Flyer reps were very tight lipped about the bus. The man asked it's range or completion date with no response. I've been on factory tours myself and they explictly say no pictures. The Bus History Association claims they will have a New Flyer factory tour in the future. The St Cloud plant sounds like a nice place to visit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The discussion is on the Canadian Bus forum here http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=11378&st=880&p=620977&#entry620977 (at post #888) Someone who toured the factory stated it was 70 percent completed. ...

Of course, CTA is only getting 2, not 3 (as the poster said).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, CTA is only getting 2, not 3 (as the poster said).

Don't put too much stock into just two, Busjack. The third mentioned could be a special non-revenue XE40 bus specifically for testing purposes before the actual buses hit the streets. A test test bus, so to speak. The TMC's and Flxibles had special buses designed for non-revenue purposes before the revenue fleet came in, just as a tester bus for various things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't put too much stock into just two, Busjack. The third mentioned could be a special non-revenue XE40 bus specifically for testing purposes before the actual buses hit the streets. A test test bus, so to speak. The TMC's and Flxibles had special buses designed for non-revenue purposes before the revenue fleet came in, just as a tester bus for various things.

Am I supposed to believe an Internet post (to which others in that thread have noted errors) as opposed to the CTA Green page and a New Flyer press release, which, this time, concur on 2. The two are the test buses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I supposed to believe an Internet post (to which others in that thread have noted errors) as opposed to the CTA Green page and a New Flyer press release, which, this time, concur on 2. The two are the test buses.

All I'm saying is don't believe all that's in press releases. The TMC release showed 474 buses and the Flxible(5300) showed 468 buses, but there were I believe three extra TMC's for testing purposes and one or two additional Flxibles for the same reason. The press releases didn't mention them and I didn't even know of them until I saw the pictures many years after these buses started rolling on our streets.

That third New Flyer XE40 mentioned by the poster will never be seen beyond the bus garages like the TMC and Flxible testers if there is indeed a third one. Maybe the poster asked a New Flyer rep in St. Cloud and he/she said there was three going to the CTA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I'm saying is don't believe all that's in press releases. The TMC release showed 474 buses and the Flxible(5300) showed 468 buses, but there were I believe three extra TMC's for testing purposes and one or two additional Flxibles for the same reason. The press releases didn't mention them and I didn't even know of them until I saw the pictures many years after these buses started rolling on our streets.

The other issue is that is not like the Nova contract for delivery of 300 buses, apparently contingent on acceptance of a prototype.

I doubt that NF would increase its costs by constructing a $1.1 million prototype on a $2.2 million order--update, especially since the poster was saying that NF would see if there are any glitches in the CTA buses before constructing a Canadian order.

Also, I doubt that you have any source to a 1990 press release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other issue is that is not like the Nova contract for delivery of 300 buses, apparently contingent on acceptance of a prototype.

I doubt that NF would increase its costs by constructing a $1.1 million prototype on a $2.2 million order.

Also, I doubt that you have any source to a 1990 press release.

I don't, but I'm sure the press releases back then didn't mention the "non-revenue" buses. This is a big test for New Flyer as well. This is the first ever all-electric bus that's non-trolley they're building. The order for Winnipeg won't even be built until months after the CTA gets theirs for testing first, and they're ordering four buses. New Flyer wants to work out all kinks and maybe this extra bus, if indeed being built could just be one to make adjustments to on site if problems arise to solve them with a working, non-revenue model. This third bus might even be all white, like the non-revenue TMC's and Flxibles were. Since it's not being used for revenue service, New Flyer is building it as a demo only without adding it to the CTA's contract cost and will take it back with data on the test, whether successful or not, to St. Cloud while the two the CTA will most likely remain in Chicago and probably meet the same fate as the 5900's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't, but I'm sure the press releases back then didn't mention the "non-revenue" buses. This is a big test for New Flyer as well. The order for Winnipeg won't even be built until months after the CTA gets theirs for testing first, and they're ordering four buses. New Flyer wants to work out all kinks and maybe this extra bus, if indeed being built could just be one to make adjustments to on site if problems arise to solve them with a working, non-revenue model. This third bus might even be all white, like the non-revenue TMC's and Flxibles were. Since it's not being used for revenue service, New Flyer is building it and will take it back with data on the test, whether successful or not, to St. Cloud while the two the CTA will remain in Chicago and probably meet the same fate as the 5900's.

I added the Winnipeg one, as indicating that it is not what you think.

Since you mention the 5900s, is there a fourth one sitting around? Or did CTA get only the 3 test buses? There are supposedly 3 more which some other transit authority was supposed to get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the original tribune article. It was 491 tmc's and 470 flx's

That proves the point about the Flxibles while throwing bedlam into the TMC's...

470 Flxibles(5300-5769)=470. No mention of the extra buses that were built here.

491 TMC's(4400-4875 and 4900-4914)=474+13=487. 4 extra buses for testing??? I could've swore it was three.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That proves the point about the Flxibles while throwing bedlam into the TMC's...

470 Flxibles(5300-5769)=470. No mention of the extra buses that were built here.

491 TMC's(4400-4875 and 4900-4914)=474+13=487. 4 extra buses for testing??? I could've swore it was three.

Apparently you admitted in the third line that it didn't prove the point. Except, again as in the case of a rail car set you claimed started with an even number, you can't count when the number ranges include the start and finish. There would have been 476 4400s and 15 4900s, getting one to 491.

I bet, though, that BusHunter can't find a reference that those numbers were subject to approval of prototypes, nor that you can find bus 5900-1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I added the Winnipeg one, as indicating that it is not what you think.

Since you mention the 5900s, is there a fourth one sitting around? Or did CTA get only the 3 test buses? There are supposedly 3 more which some other transit authority was supposed to get.

The other three test buses went to BC Transit

According to the Canadian Public Transit website in addition to the 6 test buses another three hydrogen vehicles were built:-

"There were also two first-generation models built. One demoed with SunLine for a year and was marketed under the Xcellsis name (now owned by Ballard). The other was likely a 1993 Proof of Concept model painted in the BC Transit scheme.

In 2004, a F40LF was built for ISE Corporation. The serial number of this bus is 26989."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I'm not sure what the status on the XE40's are... New Flyer remains tight-lipped according to BusHunter's post about someone touring the St. Cloud facility.

I know Siemens is bankrupt now, and they were the ones pegged in Kevin's article to supply the powertrains for these two. I wonder if that might be why the Novas made it onto CTA property first...

If powertrain problems are the reason, I just ran across this video of a company called Complete Coach Works which has turned retired buses into all-electric buses that average about 100 miles on a charge(about a typical day in a transit buses work). I don't know if they'll do brand new shells, but I don't really see why not... it's revenue for them...

Video(this one uses a New Flyer D40LF manufactured in 1996)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what the status on the XE40's are... New Flyer remains tight-lipped according to BusHunter's post about someone touring the St. Cloud facility.

I know Siemens is bankrupt now, and they were the ones pegged in Kevin's article to supply the powertrains for these two. I wonder if that might be why the Novas made it onto CTA property first...

If powertrain problems are the reason, I just ran across this video of a company called Complete Coach Works which has turned retired buses into all-electric buses that average about 100 miles on a charge(about a typical day in a transit buses work). I don't know if they'll do brand new shells, but I don't really see why not... it's revenue for them...

Video(this one uses a New Flyer D40LF manufactured in 1996)

I remember reading about Complete Coach Works. I wonder if they could also rehab artics that way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember reading about Complete Coach Works. I wonder if they could also rehab artics that way.

Eventually, I'm sure... A standard 40' bus requires six Li-Ion Battery Packs to power the electric motor... I imagine a 60' bus might require close to twelve Li-Ion Battery Packs and might even require a second electric motor. Top speed of a 40' electric bus in this setup is 55 MPH. It could do 70 MPH, but it'll drain the battery faster. With the current setup, a 60' bus might be able to top off at 35-40 MPH with six Li-Ion Battery Packs and one electric motor. The more bus, the more weight and the harder that motor and those battery packs need to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eventually, I'm sure... A standard 40' bus requires six Li-Ion Battery Packs to power the electric motor... I imagine a 60' bus might require close to twelve Li-Ion Battery Packs and might even require a second electric motor. Top speed of a 40' electric bus in this setup is 55 MPH. It could do 70 MPH, but it'll drain the battery faster. With the current setup, a 60' bus might be able to top off at 35-40 MPH with six Li-Ion Battery Packs and one electric motor. The more bus, the more weight and the harder that motor and those battery packs need to work.

Then I guess double everything for an artic. As I watched the video, it was said that the remanufactured New Flyer D40LF from 1996 (some other transit agency, not CTA) had actually 12 Li-Ion Battery Packs.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who is? ISE or Siemens? That's what was discussed regarding the 900-Series and them suddenly being cut in half now.

If you read the statement you just made, you claimed Siemens is bankrupt.

I just corrected you by saying Siemens is not bankrupt.

Why is there any confusion? What does ISE have to do with anything?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...