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PACE 834

PACE Orion hybrid bus 2831

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I was by the Highland Park Metra and both 2830 (471) and 2831 (472) were running.

2830 was idling in the bus lane for 10 minutes (while the driver was engaged in various outside the bus activities), which sure demonstrates that it doesn't have start stop. Also, it didn't sound any different than the 2600 (213) that pulled up and idled 8 minutes later.

It sure can't be "green" to be stopped that long with the engine on.

I don't have Pace's fuel consumption comparisons, and am not a self proclaimed all knowing consultant, but it sure sounds to me like the taxpayers of Illinois got taken.

I see the same thing on route 715, when the 2600 comes over to Brookhaven Plaza. It usually idles for a good 10 minutes with the engine on while the driver is usually in the gas station next-door, the grocery store, or Popeyes. In Seattle, the drivers turn off their engines while waiting to depart if they know they will be there for even 5 minutes. Green bus or not, Pace doesn't seem to be all that environmentally friendly to me.

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I see the same thing on route 715, when the 2600 comes over to Brookhaven Plaza. It usually idles for a good 10 minutes with the engine on while the driver is usually in the gas station next-door, the grocery store, or Popeyes. In Seattle, the drivers turn off their engines while waiting to depart if they know they will be there for even 5 minutes. Green bus or not, Pace doesn't seem to be all that environmentally friendly to me.

Guess I'm gonna be under fire here.... I agree with letting them run.

1. With the odd hot Chicago summers here, busses are a pain to cool down. Especially if the bus had someone on.

2. Keeps the IBS powered.

3. Keeps the air compressor running. for air door, suspension, brake release.

4. Busses shut down, will they start?

5. With busses I drove, before shutdown, turbos must idle for 5 mins. for cool down.

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Guess I'm gonna be under fire here.... I agree with letting them run.

...

The issue is, as opposed to the other say 673 Pace buses, is that these two are supposed to be ecologically aware hybrids (that being the only justification for spending an extra $200,000 each on them). If they can't start-stop like the Minneapolis one is supposed to do, and what Allison says its does, and Orion installed a system that BAE indicates is more suited for a garbage truck, something seems wrong.

I'm not saying that the driver should shut off the bus (although Evanston at least had signs at Central and Crawford when that was the terminal saying not to idle for more than 5 minutes), but the bus should shut itself off and be able to start itself on electrical power, while keeping the auxiliaries running on electrical power.

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Was reading an informative article about these buses and why Pace went to CNG. Very interesting. It also explains why they are in Highland pk. CNG's do sound kind of affordable. Too bad CTA is so skiddish on that technology. They could have saved alot of money.

https://chi.streetsblog.org/2018/05/19/why-paces-diesel-electric-bus-pilot-was-never-expanded-beyond-highland-park/

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2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Was reading an informative article about these buses and why Pace went to CNG. Very interesting. It also explains why they are in Highland pk. CNG's do sound kind of affordable. Too bad CTA is so skiddish on that technology. They could have saved alot of money.

https://chi.streetsblog.org/2018/05/19/why-paces-diesel-electric-bus-pilot-was-never-expanded-beyond-highland-park/

I think Pace NW was supposed to be the next CNG garage once Pace secured a new home for the Pace NW garage.  Obviously that still hasn't happened yet. 

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8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I think Pace NW was supposed to be the next CNG garage once Pace secured a new home for the Pace NW garage.  Obviously that still hasn't happened yet. 

They talk of having land for the cng facility. I wonder why when they built the dundee out station garage they didnt go with cng. It seems small, it would make a good 2nd test. Maybe there is no cng highway edition Eldorado. But I'm sure they could monkey with the specs to make the customer happy. 

Also it makes you wonder why they wouldnt order the new nfs with cng. If it's only 50k more a bus that's not bad. I didnt know they were that cheap. You know if the laws in the state said not that  we would have to go electric but alternative fuel like cali is now. I think it could be doable. They havent yet said either but I think it's coming soon. 

Kind of cool, last summer our bus company where I work got some cng buses  from LA. ( Not at my garage though.) They borrowed them to us because they belong to a chicago division because the buses were a little bit smaller than our 40 footers. I think they were 30s. We usually do a summer charter contract with some campers and our pickup lot was small. Drivers in previous years were snacking fences etc. So one day the buses were low on gas so the only way to fill it is get to the cng filling station at the home garage in chicago. Well I got to fill up the bus. It was cool it wasnt like gas where you stick in a nozzle this had clips on it that held it in place on the outside cause it's an air system not liquid. It didnt seem unsafe at least no more unsafe than diesel. The buses still run today at our garage in the city. All our suburban garages run the diesels. 

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Pace planned to move NW Division to the Allstate property at 1600 S Wolf Rd in Wheeling. I seem to recall the project has been delayed for some reason, but I can’t find the more recent information. It seems Pace removed the board minutes when they updated the website.

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9 hours ago, Pace831 said:

Pace planned to move NW Division to the Allstate property at 1600 S Wolf Rd in Wheeling. I seem to recall the project has been delayed for some reason, but I can’t find the more recent information. It seems Pace removed the board minutes when they updated the website.

I wonder how they will do this?  I suppose I've a bus is converted to XBF, it would go to the new garage.  Desplaines and Wheeling will have to be open simultaneously for a while.  Also its possible that W, River, and NS may have to help out.

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5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I wonder how they will do this?  I suppose I've a bus is converted to XBF, it would go to the new garage.  Desplaines and Wheeling will have to be open simultaneously for a while.  Also its possible that W, River, and NS may have to help out.

We haven't heard of a CNG contract either, So I don't know what that says about the garage.  Seems a little far from the action at NW, but they are banking they can use the tollway, and I do mean banking!! If all those buses would have to pay a toll your talking in the neighborhood of 500 bucks a day in tolls!! Maybe 750 if half come back after morning routes!!

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34 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

We haven't heard of a CNG contract either, So I don't know what that says about the garage.  Seems a little far from the action at NW, but they are banking they can use the tollway, and I do mean banking!! If all those buses would have to pay a toll your talking in the neighborhood of 500 bucks a day in tolls!! Maybe 750 if half come back after morning routes!!

Well the Woodfield routes can use Palatine and  RT 53.

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