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7 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

My thoughts were after that what stops the bus?

They were talking about "at least it didn't hit the building" (unlike the one on Chicago Ave.) but I still wonder how the impact of an approximately 12 ton bus with a 2 ton SUV sent the bus out of control instead of just flattening the SUV. However, I presume there was still a driver on the pedals.

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3 hours ago, Busjack said:

They were talking about "at least it didn't hit the building" (unlike the one on Chicago Ave.) but I still wonder how the impact of an approximately 12 ton bus with a 2 ton SUV sent the bus out of control instead of just flattening the SUV. However, I presume there was still a driver on the pedals.

Perhaps when the driver saw the SUV turn, he instinctively  started to turn the wheel when he hit the SUV or he didnt have a firm grip on steering wheel at impact.  It doesn't  take much to nove the steering wheel.  Even with hands totally off the steering, a bump or pothole will cause a vehicle to veer off course.

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Looking at that video  Theres no doubt of course that bus was traveling at a high rate of speed! This operator is clearly at fault!  That should be the number #1 question! This operator obviously had no control of through this intersection!  A professional and safe operator would have had good control of this bus which could have avoided such a violent crash. Any thoughts???

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3 hours ago, CTA5750 said:

Looking at that video  Theres no doubt of course that bus was traveling at a high rate of speed! This operator is clearly at fault!  That should be the number #1 question! This operator obviously had no control of through this intersection!  A professional and safe operator would have had good control of this bus which could have avoided such a violent crash. Any thoughts???

No way to avoid that crash when the SUV turned directly in front of the bus.  I don't think the bus driver was speeding.  The speed limit is 30mph, which isn't  a crawling speed either.  If you go back to previous crashes noted, nearly all of them veered after impact

.  What you can't see is damage done inside the bus, especially in the driver cockpit.  Very hard to steer straight if part of the dash or frame hits your legs or feet.  These are buses and not military tanks. 

Even if you wanted to make a case that the bus driver should have slowed down before entering the intersection doing so at an intersection with a red light camera increases your chance of racking up  expensive tickets and jeopardizing your job if you get too many.  I believe, however, that the camera there was a police surveillance camera.  Back to your speeding point.  Had the bus driver been speeding, I believe the bus woulda plowed  into the corner store.  ( which it did not).

Clearly the SUBs fault.  Not yielding the  right of way and obstruction.  The only thing the video didn't show is the light was  changing.

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52 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Even if you wanted to make a case that the bus driver should have slowed down before entering the intersection doing so at an intersection with a red light camera increases your chance of racking up  expensive tickets and jeopardizing your job

I've heard of trying to beat the red, but is the new idea that the purpose of a red light camera is to beat it, as opposed to yellow meaning being prepared to stop on red, which is the law?

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1 hour ago, Busjack said:

I've heard of trying to beat the red, but is the new idea that the purpose of a red light camera is to beat it, as opposed to yellow meaning being prepared to stop on red, which is the law?

No one said anything about trying to beat a red light camera. Artthouwill just said that going slower increases the likelihood of getting a ticket. Fun fact about Chicago, yellow lights in Chicago don't actually mean "be prepared to stop". The only thing they mean is a warning the light is going to turn red. That being said CTA management tends to follow the policy that there are no yellow lights, only green and red, meaning if the light isn't green you stop.

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4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I've heard of trying to beat the red, but is the new idea that the purpose of a red light camera is to beat it, as opposed to yellow meaning being prepared to stop on red, which is the law?

In the suburbs , the yellow  light lasts for 5 seconds.  In the city of Chicago, yellow lights last for 3 seconds.  If you are very close to an intersection when a light changez, you may barely  beat the Red in the city, but won't beat it with a bus or truck.  When possible  I try to just the pedestrian don't walk countdown.  Anything under 3 seconds, I stop 

 

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:50 AM, CTA5750 said:

Looking at that video  Theres no doubt of course that bus was traveling at a high rate of speed! This operator is clearly at fault!  That should be the number #1 question! This operator obviously had no control of through this intersection!  A professional and safe operator would have had good control of this bus which could have avoided such a violent crash. Any thoughts???

Buddy was probably running late so he had to speed it up a little bit 

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On 3/22/2018 at 10:50 AM, CTA5750 said:

Looking at that video  Theres no doubt of course that bus was traveling at a high rate of speed! This operator is clearly at fault!  That should be the number #1 question! This operator obviously had no control of through this intersection!  A professional and safe operator would have had good control of this bus which could have avoided such a violent crash. Any thoughts???

Could be the suv driver was anticipated the bus would stop for the light. Why else would you turn in front of a bus? 

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16 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Could be the suv driver was anticipated the bus would stop for the light. Why else would you turn in front of a bus? 

Very possible. It is still the SUV's responsibility to make sure the intersection  is clear for him to turn.  See the Venus (or was it Serena) William accident.  Even though she hit the other car, the other car didn't  check to make sure intersection  was  clear  before entering. 

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25 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Could be the suv driver was anticipated the bus would stop for the light. Why else would you turn in front of a bus? 

Gets down to why do many Chicago drivers drive like Chicago drivers? For instance, whatever one thinks about the 2.9 second yellow light or right turn on red, red light cameras don't catch drivers blowing through red lights unless they blow through red lights, including the signs saying that it is a red light intersection.

A couple of recent news stories indicate that the red light cameras don't just click when someone violates them, but are always on and can be used for accident investigation. Considering that and all the private and police surveillance cameras* out there, I don't know why someone would engage in reckless driving and think he could get away with it. In this case, no reason to chance it with a bus (as @artthouwill indicated while I was typing).

__________

*Both illustrated by video of someone plowing into a bus shelter at 95th and Stony Island, killing a potential passenger.

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14 minutes ago, Busjack said:

red light cameras don't catch drivers blowing through red lights unless they blow through red lights, including the signs saying that it is a red light intersection.

Agreed. Although not seen in the video, crossing the intersection's painted Stop Line on Yellow with the front bumper of any vehicle does not result in a ticket. It doesn't matter the size of the vehicle, just that the front crosses the stop line after the light has changed to red. State law requires that any vehicle already in the intersection has right of way to clear the intersection first. Also, to not pull into any intersection unless it is already cleared, which it was just immediately before the accident. The SUV driver might have incorrectly thought they had to "clear" the intersection to avoid getting a red light ticket. State law also allow for one(1) and only one vehicle(from each direction) to wait in the intersection until traffic is cleared to turn left (of course as long as they pulled into the intersection straight before red AND wait for opposing traffic to clear, which the SUV driver didn't do) Also for all traffic, including pedestrians, to not enter an intersection on green/walk until it is already cleared.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting to drive up to the limits of the law. If I see anything out of the ordinary in an intersection in front of me, I will stop early, swerve to avoid, or not enter the intersection. In the video, I don't see any reasonable indicator for the bus driver that the SUV was going to pull in front.

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13 hours ago, Busjack said:

Gets down to why do many Chicago drivers drive like Chicago drivers? For instance, whatever one thinks about the 2.9 second yellow light or right turn on red, red light cameras don't catch drivers blowing through red lights unless they blow through red lights, including the signs saying that it is a red light intersection.

A couple of recent news stories indicate that the red light cameras don't just click when someone violates them, but are always on and can be used for accident investigation. Considering that and all the private and police surveillance cameras* out there, I don't know why someone would engage in reckless driving and think he could get away with it. In this case, no reason to chance it with a bus (as @artthouwill indicated while I was typing).

__________

*Both illustrated by video of someone plowing into a bus shelter at 95th and Stony Island, killing a potential passenger.

The bus was traveling kind of fast in that video. If it wasn't speeding it was doing 30. It hit the suv and was out of control after it hit it. This shows it was going fast with lots of momentum they don't show the light but maybe that doesn't matter. If you judge the speed of the suv on the turn maybe 10 or 15mph that bus was clearly going faster at least up to 3 times its speed.

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10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

If it wasn't speeding it was doing 30. It hit the suv and was out of control after it hit it..... If you judge the speed of the suv on the turn maybe 10 or 15mph that bus was clearly going faster at least up to 3 times its speed.

But then it gets to @artthouwill's point that one shouldn't make a left turn unless the intersection is clear.

A maybe 3 ton SUV doesn't have much of a chance against a 12 ton bus.

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4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

But then it gets to @artthouwill's point that one shouldn't make a left turn unless the intersection is clear.

A maybe 3 ton SUV doesn't have much of a chance against a 12 ton bus.

All I can say is the suv underestimated the bus speed. But then again it gets to my point that the suv thought the bus was going to stop. It depends on the light which we don't see but the fact the suv driver doesnt have a license screws his argument and his credibility.

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