Jump to content
NF#1994

CTA Procurement Process

Recommended Posts

As we have all heard in Chicago media all of CTA's 40 foot New Flyer's will be rehabbed. The brain wanders, what kind of livery will cta use ? will the stay with the same livery and what will change for these buses in the interior. Will cta bring back a small number of 6000's while they rehab the buses. if anyone can answer this question it will be grealty appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we have all heard in Chicago media all of CTA's 40 foot New Flyer's will be rehabbed. The brain wanders, what kind of livery will cta use ? will the stay with the same livery and what will change for these buses in the interior. Will cta bring back a small number of 6000's while they rehab the buses. if anyone can answer this question it will be grealty appreciated.

The specs are still on the contract opportunities page of transitchicago.com. Search this forum for member "newport" if you can't figure out how to download them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The specs are still on the contract opportunities page of transitchicago.com. Search this forum for member "newport" if you can't figure out how to download them.

hey thanks. but can you gie me a link to the exact page im suppoe to go to. Can you tell me where i shoul go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey thanks. but can you gie me a link to the exact page im suppoe to go to. Can you tell me where i shoul go

You are supposed to know how to navigate a web page, or use the popup menus or search function therein.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we have all heard in Chicago media all of CTA's 40 foot New Flyer's will be rehabbed. The brain wanders, what kind of livery will cta use ? will the stay with the same livery and what will change for these buses in the interior. Will cta bring back a small number of 6000's while they rehab the buses. if anyone can answer this question it will be grealty appreciated.

Well let me tell you just like I've tried to explain to every one else THE 6000S ARE OUT OF REVENUE SERVICE In most cases buses authorized for retirment cannot resume revenue service. CTA keeps some around as work buses bit if noticed they do anything but move passengers. But on that series note I saw 6210 at the south shops. It looks like it able to run but that probably which I find interesting it still had the "1'"garage code on the window. If i remember right 103rd didn't have 6000s towards the end or did they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well let me tell you just like I've tried to explain to every one else THE 6000S ARE OUT OF REVENUE SERVICE In most cases buses authorized for retirment cannot resume revenue service. CTA keeps some around as work buses bit if noticed they do anything but move passengers. But on that series note I saw 6210 at the south shops. It looks like it able to run but that probably which I find interesting it still had the "1'"garage code on the window. If i remember right 103rd didn't have 6000s towards the end or did they?

At some point, it was decided that 74th wouldn't be 90% 6000s, and about 30 each were distributed to other garages in exchange for 1000s. Probably an exhaustive search of this site will come up with the details, but 74th's current 1100s and 1500s were exchanged for something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At some point, it was decided that 74th wouldn't be 90% 6000s, and about 30 each were distributed to other garages in exchange for 1000s. Probably an exhaustive search of this site will come up with the details, but 74th's current 1100s and 1500s were exchanged for something.

Well its 1100s came from Chicago and Kedzie in exchange of 40 each of 6000s to each of those garages to give 74th an additional 80 total of 1000s at the time of the swap. Later on as Busjack points out, more 6000s were swapped to other garages for 1000s, 103rd being one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well its 1100s came from Chicago and Kedzie in exchange of 40 each of 6000s to each of those garages to give 74th an additional 80 total of 1000s at the time of the swap. Later on as Busjack points out, more 6000s were swapped to other garages for 1000s, 103rd being one of them.

Didn't 74th get Novas as well for that trade or were those ex-Archer Novas sent from the 2010 cuts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't 74th get Novas as well for that trade or were those ex-Archer Novas sent from the 2010 cuts?

Nope. 74th never had Novas before the 2010 cuts. 74th only received Novas when Archer Garage closed as part of those cuts. The Novas at 74th replaced all of that garage's remaining Flxibles. (The ex-Archer Novas were divided between Chicago, 74th, 77th, Forest Glen and North Park. Initially, 6471-6480 went to 74th, 6521-6566 went to Chicago, 6567 and 6569-6593 went to Forest Glen, 6594 and 6595 went to 77th, 6596-6609 and 6611-6687 went to 74th, 6688-6707 went to North Park and 6708+ went to Forest Glen. Since then, 6471-6474 were transferred from 74th to North Park, 6476 was seen recently at 77th, 6481-6484 were transferred from 77th to 74th, 6567 and 6569-6573 were transferred from Forest Glen to Chicago, 6663 was transferred from 74th to 77th and 6688-6691 were transferred from North Park to 74th.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't 74th get Novas as well for that trade or were those ex-Archer Novas sent from the 2010 cuts?

No. 74th didn't get those Novas until after the 2010 cuts and new garages had to be found for the former Archer Novas. Before that 74th was trading 1000s mainly for 6000s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well its 1100s came from Chicago and Kedzie in exchange of 40 each of 6000s to each of those garages to give 74th an additional 80 total of 1000s at the time of the swap. Later on as Busjack points out, more 6000s were swapped to other garages for 1000s, 103rd being one of them.

The 1500's were probably from 103rd looking at how they are blocked (103rd: 1480-1527 then 74th: 1528-1584)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1500's were probably from 103rd looking at how they are blocked (103rd: 1480-1527 then 74th: 1528-1584)

1430-1629 (approximately speaking) were originally the odd/even split between 103 and NP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1430-1629 (approximately speaking) were originally the odd/even split between 103 and NP.

Exactly meaning 74th's 1500s were also from North Park originally and not just 103rd. Of course this was also during the time of constant bus shifting that had people up in arms so it's not too easy to say where 74th's 1500s may have been between the break up of the even odd split of that range of 1000s. But we do know 74th has 1500s 1528-1584, Chicago had 1585 to about 1596 before seeing that go down to 1591 in recent months, and Kedzie has most of the rest of that range except for a few odds and ends from the high 1590s and low 1600s that are at 103rd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly meaning 74th's 1500s were also from North Park originally and not just 103rd. Of course this was also during the time of constant bus shifting that had people up in arms so it's not too easy to say where 74th's 1500s may have been between the break up of the even odd split of that range of 1000s. But we do know 74th has 1500s 1528-1584, Chicago had 1585 to about 1596 before seeing that go down to 1591 in recent months, and Kedzie has most of the rest of that range except for a few odds and ends from the high 1590s and low 1600s that are at 103rd.

To be specific, Chicago received 1586-1595 with the 2010 pick. Chicago later picked up 1585 from 74th while 1592-1595 later moved to Kedzie. (Kedzie also had 1591 for a while before it went back to Chicago.) Kedzie picked up 1596, 1597, 1599, 1601 and 1603 with the 2010 pick, but 1599 was moved to 103rd shortly thereafter. And there is an even/odd split between 1605 and 1614, which the odds went to 103rd and the evens went to Kedzie.

As a result of the equipment moves, relatively few of the 1000s are currently based at the exact same garages they started out in; for example, the entire 1630-1720 block is still at Kedzie, having never left that garage other than the occasional loaners to other garages (or more specifically, a Kedzie driver is called to perform a run for another garage's route whenever the driver from that other garage has called off sick).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As we have all heard in Chicago media all of CTA's 40 foot New Flyer's will be rehabbed. The brain wanders, what kind of livery will cta use ? will the stay with the same livery and what will change for these buses in the interior. Will cta bring back a small number of 6000's while they rehab the buses. if anyone can answer this question it will be grealty appreciated.

The livery will stay the same as it will on the 600 new buses out for tender right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The livery will stay the same as it will on the 600 new buses out for tender right now.

That's taking into account none of the 600 or so would get considered for the Jeffery Jump like the portion of buses at 103rd currently set for prep of that service. Though I agree that those buses would be delivered in the standard CTA livery first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's taking into account none of the 600 or so would get considered for the Jeffery Jump like the portion of buses at 103rd currently set for prep of that service. Though I agree that those buses would be delivered in the standard CTA livery first.

Correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

As far as the bus rebuilding, #1005 is the bus not included in the RFP. It is serving as the prototype for the rebuild.

This also comes up on today's agenda (Word doc):

C12FR101208860

Furnish all labor and materials necessary to perform "turnkey" overhaul of up to four hundred and twenty-nine (429) 1000-series 40-ft New Flyer buses, bus numbers 1000-1429, excluding bus 1005.

$74,455,524.00

(Not-to-Exceed)

C12FR101292239

Furnish all labor and materials necessary to perform "turnkey" overhaul of up to six hundred (600) 1000-series 40-ft New Flyer buses, bus numbers 1430-2029.

$88,118,326.00

(aggregate not-to-exceed value for two awards)

Is the implication that they split the second job?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... As for the rebuild of the 1000s, there's still no evidence that those buses will see a rebuild more extensive than as happened with the 4400s and later the 6000s despite Emmanuel's flapping off that everything will be redone except the frames. ...

In that I noted above that CTA says $162 million of work is being done, and since it is "turnkey," i.e. off site, something extensive better be done for that kind of money (average of $157,000 a bus).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that I noted above that CTA says $162 million of work is being done, and since it is "turnkey," i.e. off site, something extensive better be done for that kind of money (average of $157,000 a bus).

Extensive maybe as far as engine rebuilds and reworking of hydraulics, but my point was not necessarily extensive to the point that we would notice the missing buses in the process of getting a rebuild in that we don't know how many buses at a time will be off site. And not extensive to the point of what Emmanuel was eluding to as far as ripping everything out of each bus down to the frame and replacing. You may as well get a new bus if you have to go that far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extensive maybe as far as engine rebuilds and reworking of hydraulics, but my point was not necessarily extensive to the point that we would notice the missing buses in the process of getting a rebuild in that we don't know how many buses at a time will be off site. And not extensive to the point of what Emmanuel was eluding to as far as ripping everything out of each bus down to the frame and replacing. You may as well get a new bus if you have to go that far.

Except that a new bus would probably be about $450K (depending if the bids are revealed).

Apparently the feds are willing to allocate 5307 money on this.*

And my point about being turnkey is that they won't be on the property when the work is done.The only question will be how long per bus.

*Edit: true, but the press release indicates that sales tax money will be used again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Press Release is up about the contract awards.

In that Cummins and New Flyer got the contracts, it appears that it took heavier hitters this time than just sending some buses over to Chicago Bus & Truck or Inland DDA.

Also, the amount stated in the Press Release exceeds the "not to exceed" amounts in the agenda, although the breakdown between Cummins and NF later on corresponds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extensive maybe as far as engine rebuilds and reworking of hydraulics, but my point was not necessarily extensive to the point that we would notice the missing buses in the process of getting a rebuild in that we don't know how many buses at a time will be off site. And not extensive to the point of what Emmanuel was eluding to as far as ripping everything out of each bus down to the frame and replacing. You may as well get a new bus if you have to go that far.

Look at the press release both Busjack and I have linked to, jajaun. This overhaul is due to begin in Spring, 2013 and will rebuild 60% of the fleet, or most of the 1,030 New Flyer D40LF's. This is being labeled as a "gut rehab" of the buses, which means a teardown to the frames only and a complete rebuild of all units receiving the overhaul. Each New Flyer will receive a rebuilt Cummins engine, transmissions, suspensions, heating and A/C units, exterior repair and repainting, LED lighting on the interior and other internal amenities. The 430 buses that don't have the particulate filters will receive them upon rehab(could those buses be 1630-2029, which is 430 buses and coincides with my earlier post here about the Cummins ISL buses emitting a lot of smoke upon acceleration as opposed to the Cummins ISM units(1000-1629). Maybe 1630-2029, despite have a lower emissions Cummins engine, do not have the particulate filters on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the press release both Busjack and I have linked to, jajaun. This overhaul is due to begin in Spring, 2013 and will rebuild 60% of the fleet, or most of the 1,030 New Flyer D40LF's. This is being labeled as a "gut rehab" of the buses, which means a teardown to the frames only and a complete rebuild of all units receiving the overhaul. Each New Flyer will receive a rebuilt Cummins engine, transmissions, suspensions, heating and A/C units, exterior repair and repainting, LED lighting on the interior and other internal amenities. The 430 buses that don't have the particulate filters will receive them upon rehab(could those buses be 1630-2029, which is 430 buses and coincides with my earlier post here about the Cummins ISL buses emitting a lot of smoke upon acceleration as opposed to the Cummins ISM units(1000-1629). Maybe 1630-2029, despite have a lower emissions Cummins engine, do not have the particulate filters on them.

I get all that. My point is we still don't know how long each bus individually is out of service at the time of rebuild or how many buses at a time will be offsite. I admit "extensive" in this case wasn't made clear in the context I was making my original point, as I already acknowledged the bulk of the work on the buses revolved around the engines, transmissions and other parts of the innards that make the bus move. The only part I may have concentrated less on is the cosmetic part of the rebuilds since, with the exception of the structural work to the frame, I don't count the cosmetic items as being all that extensive because those sound like items that gets done onsite in the shops or the garages. We experienced the rebuilds of the 4400s, 5800s and 6000s and each of those happened at a pace so as not to pull so many buses out of service at a time to be noticeable or affect assignment of the remaining buses on site. So I was leaning more toward extensive as far as length of the rebuild time per bus and number of buses simultaneously pulled to take offsite and not extensive as far as actual type of work done on each bus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...We experienced the rebuilds of the 4400s, 5800s and 6000s and each of those happened at a pace so as not to pull so many buses out of service at a time to be noticeable or affect assignment of the remaining buses on site....

It appears that the only comparable one was the 5800s, as they went offsite for new engines.

That involved maybe 62 buses out of a fleet of 2000. Here, they are talking 1030 out of 1750. But one can be fairly sure that it won't be at once, especially since the buses of the last couple of options haven't hit midlife yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...