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7000-series - Manufacturing

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Testing has begun! Here's car 7006 with (presumably) its mate 7005 on the test tracks outside CRRC in Hegewisch. Sorry about the quality, wanted to get it posted here asap.

20191212_113143.jpg

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2 hours ago, WCR said:

Testing has begun! Here's car 7006 with (presumably) its mate 7005 on the test tracks outside CRRC in Hegewisch. Sorry about the quality, wanted to get it posted here asap.

20191212_113143.jpg

It looks like a  2400 series car mixed with the R142 cars in New York.with fluted sides.

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20 minutes ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

mai distunguiing?

The very short window behind the motorman's window  on the 5000s is at the rear of the car on the 7000s.  No other series has these features (2400s, 2600s,3200s).

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12 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

(Since you're going to nitpick others' posts)

You made a typo in your transcript of his typo.

I was asking what it was or what he meant.  There's no need for you to harass me if I'm not offending anyone here.  It's funny you're accusing me of nitpicking if you're the one nitpicking. 

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7 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The very short window behind the motorman's window  on the 5000s is at the rear of the car on the 7000s.  No other series has these features (2400s, 2600s,3200s).

If you're talking about the window that's circled, the 7000s do have it the small windows next to the motorcab window.  On the "passenger" side, so to speak, the smaller window is in the rear.  On 5000s and 7000s on each of the sides, the windows are placed in opposite places.  On one side in front and the other side in the rear.

Screenshot_20191212-181336_Gallery.jpg

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10 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

The very short window behind the motorman's window  on the 5000s is at the rear of the car on the 7000s.  No other series has these features (2400s, 2600s,3200s).

It still has the short window in the same spot, on each car the short window is on the left side of the car at the non-cab end and the right side at the cab end.

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11 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I wonder will they be compatible with the 5000's 🤔🤔.

I hope so, but I wouldn’t count on it. I believe dropping the requirement of compatibility with the 5000s was how CRRC was encouraged to bid on the contract, otherwise Bombardier would have been awarded it. And as we know since Bombardier protested CRRC getting the contract, I doubt that they would give CRRC proprietary information on how to make the 7000s play nice with the 5000.
 

This is similar to in New York City, where R142s cannot run in service with R142As because of incompatibilities between them as a result of them being built by two different manufacturers (despite looking almost identical).

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1 hour ago, Mr.cta85 said:

I wonder will they be compatible with the 5000's 🤔🤔.

No.  In the initial RFP, CTA wanted the cars to be compatible,  but I don't think they got any bids other than possibly Bombardiet.  Then CTA had a secret deal with Bombardier to build a rail car plant near lower 63rd Yard that had to be canceled when other railcar builders protested.  They had to reissue an RFP that didn't require compatibility and the bid came down to the Chinese company (CSR ?) and Bombardier.  Bombardier list even though they supposedly had the lower bid.

Even though we all know the Blue Line is in line to get 7000s, there's the possibility the Blue Line won't get them FIRST.  In my opinion,  that will depend on the power upgrades AND the track condition as it relates to the Forest Park branch.   I can see a scenario where the Brown Line gets 7000s first.  The Brown will transfer all of its non roof board 3209s to Blue and the roof board 3200s to Orange.  Then possibly Orange Line will get 7000s to retire its 2600s making the Brown Line and Orange Lines compatible.   CTA will have to exercise options beyond the initial 400 cars.

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1 hour ago, MTRSP1900-CTA3200 said:

I hope so, but I wouldn’t count on it. I believe dropping the requirement of compatibility with the 5000s was how CRRC was encouraged to bid on the contract, otherwise Bombardier would have been awarded it. And as we know since Bombardier protested CRRC getting the contract, I doubt that they would give CRRC proprietary information on how to make the 7000s play nice with the 5000.
 

This is similar to in New York City, where R142s cannot run in service with R142As because of incompatibilities between them as a result of them being built by two different manufacturers (despite looking almost identical).

I'm not sure if different manufacturers are the reason for compatibility issues.  It could be.   But I think it has more to do with technology and/or power issues.  For instance, in our case, 5000 series cars can couple with 2600s and 3200s.  But they can't train together as the older cars are alternating current and the 5000s are direct current.   I don't know what the issues could be in New York. I'm sure there are technology differences between the 5000s and the 7000s that they can't train together, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cars used the same couplers.

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1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Even though we all know the Blue Line is in line to get 7000s, there's the possibility the Blue Line won't get them FIRST.  In my opinion,  that will depend on the power upgrades AND the track condition as it relates to the Forest Park branch.   I can see a scenario where the Brown Line gets 7000s first.  The Brown will transfer all of its non roof board 3209s to Blue and the roof board 3200s to Orange.  Then possibly Orange Line will get 7000s to retire its 2600s making the Brown Line and Orange Lines compatible.   CTA will have to exercise options beyond the initial 400 cars.

I agree with this part, especially with the latest CTA slow zone map showing loads of sections on the Forest Park Branch and the reasoning that CTA doesn't operate the slightly more power hungry 5000 series cars.

53 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

But they can't train together as the older cars are alternating current and the 5000s are direct current. 

Isn't it the other way around with the older cars being direct current and the 5000s being alternating current?

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47 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I'm not sure if different manufacturers are the reason for compatibility issues.  It could be.   But I think it has more to do with technology and/or power issues.  For instance, in our case, 5000 series cars can couple with 2600s and 3200s.  But they can't train together as the older cars are alternating current and the 5000s are direct current.   I don't know what the issues could be in New York. I'm sure there are technology differences between the 5000s and the 7000s that they can't train together, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cars used the same couplers.

I could have explained that better. I would be very surprised if the 7000s didn't have the Form 5 couplers that other modern L cars have. The issue is that Bombardier isn't just going to give out its proprietary software used in the 5000s to other manufacturers in order to make their trains compatible with the 5000s, and they definitely aren't going to give it to CRRC after they lost the bid to build the 7000 series. This is what the issue is in New York. The R142s were built by Bombardier (surprise!) and the R142As were built by Kawasaki. Because of the different software in each train type, they can't run together despite having the same couplers and both having AC motors.

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1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Even though we all know the Blue Line is in line to get 7000s, there's the possibility the Blue Line won't get them FIRST.  In my opinion,  that will depend on the power upgrades AND the track condition as it relates to the Forest Park branch.   I can see a scenario where the Brown Line gets 7000s first.  The Brown will transfer all of its non roof board 3209s to Blue and the roof board 3200s to Orange.  Then possibly Orange Line will get 7000s to retire its 2600s making the Brown Line and Orange Lines compatible.   CTA will have to exercise options beyond the initial 400 cars.

Yeah, they most likely won't start out on the Blue due to track conditions like you said. However, if the CTA changed its mind about waiting for the city to restructure the Eisenhower and went ahead with track upgrades, they might be able to complete them before the production models begin delivery (after the year-long testing of the prototypes are complete). But yeah, that's unlikely so they'll probably start out on orange or brown.

Side thought; I'm not entirely sure how severe the track conditions are, will the prototypes even be able to test on the forest park branch or would damage occur over a longer period of time?

3 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

Nice catch bro

Thanks

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1 minute ago, WCR said:

Yeah, they most likely won't start out on the Blue due to track conditions like you said. However, if the CTA changed its mind about waiting for the city to restructure the Eisenhower and went ahead with track upgrades, they might be able to complete them before the production models begin delivery (after the year-long testing of the prototypes are complete). But yeah, that's unlikely so they'll probably start out on orange or brown.

Side thought; I'm not entirely sure how severe the track conditions are, will the prototypes even be able to test on the forest part branch or would damage to 5000/7000 series cars occur over a longer period of time?

To add onto what you just said, I had predicted on here before that Brown and Orange Lines are most likely to receive the 7000 Series cars 1st due to the track conditions on Congress and if the power on the O'Hare Branch doesn't get upgraded in time.  The rest of the 3200s on the Brown Line would be transferred to the Blue Line and the 2600s assigned to Orange and Brown Lines would be moved to Blue or mostly retired and replaced by 7000s.

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