Blue Line Reconstruction

[renardo870]

Just wondering, if the Red Line South Reconstruction Project finishes in the 5 months that CTA is stating and is successful, will the Blue Line reconstruction be not too far behind after the RED/PURPLE Modernization Project/RED Line South Extension?

Since the Forest Park Branch is almost 65 years old and there is talk of extending that out to Mannheim, Oakbrook and beyond, (I think out to Yorktown or Lisle) and the proposed reconstructing of the IKE between Central and the infamous Hillside Strangler, would CTA shut down the Forest Park branch for 5-7 months as well? It would make the whole branch ADA compliant, fix their slow zones, move tracks between Central and Harlem to the median like RED LINE SOUTH and BLUE LINE OHARE branches and position that line for expansion further west. The Blue Line would still run either to 54/Cermak via the Pink Line or to...HARLEM/LAKE via the Paulina Connector and Lake ST GREEN LINE. I say HARLEM/LAKE because it is within a mile of BLUE LINE STATIONS whereas the PINK LINE is slightly over a mile and 54th/Cermak doesn't go far enough west. They may have to add a UNITED CENTER STATION and a WESTERN/LAKE STATION but it is doable and ALL BUSES FROM FOREST PARK WOULD EXTEND OUT TO HARLEM/LAKE.

You think thats something, let's try a BLUE LINE BELMONT TO JEFFERSON PARK RECONSTUCTION since that portion is 43 years old. That might be a bit more challenging. Can't move those trains to any other lines to move riders, period. The alternative would be an already full Brown Line to KIMBALL and Shuttles to JEFFRSON PARK and then a BLUE LINE TO/FROM O'HARE. BELMONT, ADDISON, IRVING PARK AND MONTROSE would be ADA accessible. THE JEFF PARK TO O'HARE is 29 yrs old so it may not need major replacement but it would give them the option to adjust that branch for express service to O'HARE and in position to expand west of O'HARE to Woodfield if the Metra STAR Project doesn't happen.

IT WOULD BE A MAJOR HEADACHE LIKE NO OTHER AND PEOPLE ARE CRYING ABOUT THE REDLINE. FOREST PARK BRANCH HAS GOOD OPTIONS...O'HARE..OUCH!!!

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS, PLEASE!!!

Edited March 15, 2013 by renardo870

[Busjack]

The only thing said was (in connection with the IDOT plan for I-290 and connected proposal to extend the Blue Line to Mannheim) was that CTA was engaged in a Vision Study for the existing infrastructure (Tribune story).

One also has to figure that the Dan Ryan project depended on state bond funds, and even though those are secured by such things as the pop tax and liquor tax increases, there are stories that due to the state's financial mess,not even those bonds can be sold. So there is no source of money.

But, as far as alternatives, the Green Line is an alternative except for the Forest Park/Des Plaines Ave. station. Not like the situation that there is not Green Line service south of 63rd, as well as stronger parallel bus service on Harrison and Jackson. Also, as indicated by the cut backs to UIC, that branch of the Blue Line is not as heavily patronized as we thought.

And if you want to talk about the O'Hare branch, how about the L between north of Division and south of Logan Square? That's about 110 years old. I suppose they could do something similar to the Pink Line reconstruction (if they got the money), not that that has held up. But that still would require cutting the line in half for a whole mess of weekends.

[BusHunter]

While we may see a Congress project, (when they do reconstruct the Ike) the other projects are too far off to worry about yet and most likely not happening for many years. I agree something needs to done about the ramps to Forest Pk branch stations, in some cases a 2 block walk is required to get to the trains. (like at Damen) But CTA has a hard time committing itself to expansion projects like the Yellow and Orange line expansions. Even the Red line expansion, which Rahm said would be finished during his term, is having a hard time getting off the ground and will not be finished by 2016, which was supposed to be the completion date. While I'd like the see some of the expansion projects once proposed like the STAR line, until it gets built it is just a proposal and can be dropped off the radar at any time.

[renardo870]

Yeah the Logan Square branchis older than Moses. They would probably cut weekend service on that stretch and put shuttles on Milwaukee or something to the effect of doing it be sections...putting shuttles between Division and Western, Damen and California, and Western and Logan Square. Traffic on Milwaukee is crazy.

[Busjack]

...Even the Red line expansion, which Rahm said would be finished during his term, is having a hard time getting off the ground and will not be finished by 2016, which was supposed to be the completion date.....

I don't remember that, and certainly that isn't going to happen by 2016 if they aren't even past the environmental review yet, and have no source of funding. Maybe he meant in 2028, like he was a Daley or something.

[BusHunter]

I don't remember that, and certainly that isn't going to happen by 2016 if they aren't even past the environmental review yet, and have no source of funding. Maybe he meant in 2028, like he was a Daley or something.

No that what Rahm said as part of his election campaign. (like we can believe politicians around here) Also CTA did say they would complete this by 2016 a couple years ago. If you think that's something they also promised the Orange and Yellow line extensions by then. But that's nothing new, the Orange line was first proposed in 1980, by Mayor Jane Byrne, I believe was funded in 1986, shortly after O'hare got it's station in 1984. I took them seven years to build the Orange line. (i believe construction started in '89) Link http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/orange.html

[Busjack]

No that what Rahm said as part of his election campaign. (like we can believe politicians around here) Also CTA did say they would complete this by 2016 a couple years ago. If you think that's something they also promised the Orange and Yellow line extensions by then. But that's nothing new, the Orange line was first proposed in 1980, by Mayor Jane Byrne, I believe was funded in 1986, shortly after O'hare got it's station in 1984. I took them seven years to build the Orange line. (i believe construction started in '89) Link http://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/orange.html

Most sources had said that the Red Line extension has been promised for over 40 years, and chicago.l.org Lines and Routes->Red Line Dan Ryan branch has renderings of a proposed park and ride at 103rd and Doty (going back to 1958).

The main reason the O'Hare and Orange Lines were built when they were was that the feds let the city cash out the money originally designated for the nonexistent Crosstown Expressway.

As I noted before, one can't expect anything without a funding source, and despite what Emanuel said during the campaign, the extensions other than to 130th seem comatose. Let's remember that it has been 6 or 7 years since the Alternatives Analyses started, and the consultants still haven't gotten much further than that stage for the 130th project.

[Sam92]

Just wondering, if the Red Line South Reconstruction Project finishes in the 5 months that CTA is stating and is successful, will the Blue Line reconstruction be not too far behind after the RED/PURPLE Modernization Project/RED Line South Extension?

Since the Forest Park Branch is almost 65 years old and there is talk of extending that out to Mannheim, Oakbrook and beyond, (I think out to Yorktown or Lisle) and the proposed reconstructing of the IKE between Central and the infamous Hillside Strangler, would CTA shut down the Forest Park branch for 5-7 months as well? It would make the whole branch ADA compliant, fix their slow zones, move tracks between Central and Harlem to the median like RED LINE SOUTH and BLUE LINE OHARE branches and position that line for expansion further west. The Blue Line would still run either to 54/Cermak via the Pink Line or to...HARLEM/LAKE via the Paulina Connector and Lake ST GREEN LINE. I say HARLEM/LAKE because it is within a mile of BLUE LINE STATIONS whereas the PINK LINE is slightly over a mile and 54th/Cermak doesn't go far enough west. They may have to add a UNITED CENTER STATION and a WESTERN/LAKE STATION but it is doable and ALL BUSES FROM FOREST PARK WOULD EXTEND OUT TO HARLEM/LAKE.

You think thats something, let's try a BLUE LINE BELMONT TO JEFFERSON PARK RECONSTUCTION since that portion is 43 years old. That might be a bit more challenging. Can't move those trains to any other lines to move riders, period. The alternative would be an already full Brown Line to KIMBALL and Shuttles to JEFFRSON PARK and then a BLUE LINE TO/FROM O'HARE. BELMONT, ADDISON, IRVING PARK AND MONTROSE would be ADA accessible. THE JEFF PARK TO O'HARE is 29 yrs old so it may not need major replacement but it would give them the option to adjust that branch for express service to O'HARE and in position to expand west of O'HARE to Woodfield if the Metra STAR Project doesn't happen.

IT WOULD BE A MAJOR HEADACHE LIKE NO OTHER AND PEOPLE ARE CRYING ABOUT THE REDLINE. FOREST PARK BRANCH HAS GOOD OPTIONS...O'HARE..OUCH!!!

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS, PLEASE!!!

Funny you mentioned this.... Not too long ago I found a CTA powerpoint about future slow zone projects. It mentioned track improvements to the Dan Ryan (which have been mentioned since 2009 in budget books in addition to this powerpoint) but also mentioned the Congress branch which apparently also has drainage problems so it could be a possibility. I dont have the link on hand but it may still be in one of these forums cause I believe I put it up in another discussion (possibly the Red/Purple discussion?) But anyway I'll search it out and repost since this seems appropriate for the link.

[artthouwill]

The Forest Park branch is getting ridiculously slow, with slow zones between Racine and Medical Center, Western and Kedzie, Pulaski and Kostner, Central Park and Austin, East Ave and Home (just east of the Oak Park station and halfway to Harlem). I don't know where funding would come from, but eventually they will have to do a shutdown of this branch similar to what they are doing for the Dan Ryan Red. I would imagine that this would be easier in that, the Green Line parallels the branch about a mile to the north between Harlem and downtown and the Pink Line parallels the route about 1 1/2 miles to the south from Cicero to Damen. They could also reinstate Blue Line to 54/Cermak during such a construction pahse (and the signs still exist for that). Without fixing the Forest Park branch, talk about extending this route westward won't make much since, similar to what Rahm has said about Red Line construction to fix the Dan Ryan being related to extending that route to 130th.

The problem for Pace would be terminating the Forest Park routes at Harlem/Lake. Oak Prk would have to agree to restsrict car traffic on North Blvd between harlem and Marion to accomodate extra buses. Perhaps the Madison buses could use the 757 stop as a terminating point with the 301, 308, and 318 sharing the 305 terminus, or the 90 loading zone on South Blvd.

As for Western Ave, the Pink Line serves Western to the south, and if necessary, Western buses could be rerouted to serve California Green Line via Chicago, Sacremento, Fulton, California Washington/Warren, Western .

[See Tea Eh]

The Blue Line would still run either to 54/Cermak via the Pink Line or to...HARLEM/LAKE via the Paulina Connector and Lake ST GREEN LINE. I say HARLEM/LAKE because it is within a mile of BLUE LINE STATIONS whereas the PINK LINE is slightly over a mile and 54th/Cermak doesn't go far enough west. They may have to add a UNITED CENTER STATION and a WESTERN/LAKE STATION but it is doable and ALL BUSES FROM FOREST PARK WOULD EXTEND OUT TO HARLEM/LAKE.

There is basically no chance of this happening because it would require a double-reverse move, with the train changing ends at Harrison Junction and Pulina Junction. It would tie up the railroad on both ends while doing it.

I also can't see spending tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars on new track connections, plus new stations, on a different line just to accommodate construction on the Congress branch. Plus, IIRC, ridership on the Congress branch was falling anyway.

If CTA shut down the Congress branch for construction, then running extra greens, plus some blues to 54th/Cermak should do fine.

[BusHunter]

The Forest Park branch is getting ridiculously slow, with slow zones between Racine and Medical Center, Western and Kedzie, Pulaski and Kostner, Central Park and Austin, East Ave and Home (just east of the Oak Park station and halfway to Harlem). I don't know where funding would come from, but eventually they will have to do a shutdown of this branch similar to what they are doing for the Dan Ryan Red. I would imagine that this would be easier in that, the Green Line parallels the branch about a mile to the north between Harlem and downtown and the Pink Line parallels the route about 1 1/2 miles to the south from Cicero to Damen. They could also reinstate Blue Line to 54/Cermak during such a construction pahse (and the signs still exist for that). Without fixing the Forest Park branch, talk about extending this route westward won't make much since, similar to what Rahm has said about Red Line construction to fix the Dan Ryan being related to extending that route to 130th.

The problem for Pace would be terminating the Forest Park routes at Harlem/Lake. Oak Prk would have to agree to restsrict car traffic on North Blvd between harlem and Marion to accomodate extra buses. Perhaps the Madison buses could use the 757 stop as a terminating point with the 301, 308, and 318 sharing the 305 terminus, or the 90 loading zone on South Blvd.

As for Western Ave, the Pink Line serves Western to the south, and if necessary, Western buses could be rerouted to serve California Green Line via Chicago, Sacremento, Fulton, California Washington/Warren, Western .

They have been working on rail ties on the Forest Park branch for years, replacing the old wooden ones with the recycled ones like from the Kennedy project. It seems like a project that never gets finished.

[Sam92]

They have been working on rail ties on the Forest Park branch for years, replacing the old wooden ones with the recycled ones like from the Kennedy project. It seems like a project that never gets finished.

Which goes back to my post about the powerpoint starting that the Congress branch also has problems with drainage similar to the Dan Ryan branch. They've replaced the Dan Ryan ties here and there on numerous occasions (even used plastic ties between Garfield and 63rd) only to have the track placed under slow zone a few months later which is why they are starting from the drains up. If the powerpoint is right, then the same could be said as to why the Forest Park branch is becoming as slow zone plagued as the Dan Ryan and we may very well see a Forest Park shutdown. As to how they would go about this? Well seeing as the Paulina Junction doesn't have tracks that veer west from the Pink Line, I'm guessing possibly suspending pink line service in order to accommodate Blue Line service rerouted to 54/Cermak with shuttles operating between there and Forest Park similar to the way the Dan Ryan shuttles will run

[Sam92]

They have been working on rail ties on the Forest Park branch for years, replacing the old wooden ones with the recycled ones like from the Kennedy project. It seems like a project that never gets finished.

Which goes back to my post about the powerpoint starting that the Congress branch also has problems with drainage similar to the Dan Ryan branch. They've replaced the Dan Ryan ties here and there on numerous occasions (even used plastic ties between Garfield and 63rd) only to have the track placed under slow zone a few months later which is why they are starting from the drains up. If the powerpoint is right, then the same could be said as to why the Forest Park branch is becoming as slow zone plagued as the Dan Ryan and we may very well see a Forest Park shutdown. As to how they would go about this? Well seeing as the Paulina Junction doesn't have tracks that veer west from the Pink Line, I'm guessing possibly suspending pink line service in order to accommodate Blue Line service rerouted to 54/Cermak with shuttles operating between there and Forest Park similar to the way the Dan Ryan shuttles will run

[Busjack]

I must have been a bit prescient, as there is now a Request for Proposals (RFP) Step 1: Request for Qualifications for Professional Design and Construction Services for the Renewal of Track Along the Milwaukee Avenue Portion of the O'Hare Blue Line.

[Sam92]

I must have been a bit prescient, as there is now a Request for Proposals (RFP) Step 1: Request for Qualifications for Professional Design and Construction Services for the Renewal of Track Along the Milwaukee Avenue Portion of the O'Hare Blue Line.

So what was the work they did before? It was mentioned on the Tattler about a year or two ago

[Busjack]

So what was the work they did before? It was mentioned on the Tattler about a year or two ago

Compared to other situations of which I complained, I don't know. All I know is that there are track slow zones on the map NB pretty much north of Western to Logan Square, and southbound sporadically between Logan Square and Damen, and, as far as I know both directions have been slow zoned near California for maybe the last 15 years.

[Sam92]

Compared to other situations of which I complained, I don't know. All I know is that there are track slow zones on the map NB pretty much north of Western to Logan Square, and southbound sporadically between Logan Square and Damen, and, as far as I know both directions have been slow zoned near California for maybe the last 15 years.

Kevin might remember..... But anyway notice the track slow zones making a comeback on the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line in addition to the chronic signal caused slow zone by Jefferson Park and now the power based one by Harlem (O'Hare). Lets see if CTA annouces a power and signal rehab up there the way the did down here on the Ryan :lol:

[Busjack]

....Lets see if CTA annouces a power and signal rehab up there the way the did down here on the Ryan

The signal system was upgraded (at least between Jefferson Park and Forest Park) around 2007 as part of the Dearborn/Congress/Kennedy/Block 37 Train Control System and Traction Power System Upgrades and Improvements Project (August 2007 report).

Basically, at that time, the stretch from Logan Square through the subway was changed from the 3 color wayside signals to the current cab signals, which, among other things, was necessary to make them compatible with testing the AC traction cars. Also, the signal relay houses over the track (similar to the ones you see on the Dan Ryan) were built then.

Since the slow zones on the Milwaukee elevated were identified as "track," and so is the proposal, I fell back on not knowing if there was a preceding track project.

Update: The only power (gray) slow zone is right at the Jefferson Park substation (visible from the Kennedy Expressway), so I don't know what the problem is there.

[Busjack]

Various news stories pointing to the Press Release  that the CT Board approved work at the Medical District station. I guess the earlier stories were only about the TIF.

One thing in the Press Release not indicated in the stories is that an elevator is gong in at Ogden.

Sketch is on the project page.

[andrethebusman]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2013 at 8:43 AM, Busjack said:

The signal system was upgraded (at least between Jefferson Park and Forest Park) around 2007 as part of the Dearborn/Congress/Kennedy/Block 37 Train Control System and Traction Power System Upgrades and Improvements Project (August 2007 report).

 

Basically, at that time, the stretch from Logan Square through the subway was changed from the 3 color wayside signals to the current cab signals, which, among other things, was necessary to make them compatible with testing the AC traction cars. Also, the signal relay houses over the track (similar to the ones you see on the Dan Ryan) were built then.

 

Since the slow zones on the Milwaukee elevated were identified as "track," and so is the proposal, I fell back on not knowing if there was a preceding track project.

 

Update: The only power (gray) slow zone is right at the Jefferson Park substation (visible from the Kennedy Expressway), so I don't know what the problem is there.

In the late 90's-early 2000's they did a lot of structure work between Damen and Logan Square, such as replacing the flange angles, in a project that took several years at least as they were doing about 30 feet a day. Track was relaid in the 1980's, I think, so it is starting to have tie rot issues.

Biggest reason for replacing the wayside signals with cab signals was that the equipment was ancient - 1943 for State and 1951 for Dearborn up to Logan Square, and parts were being hand-made as needed and signal failures were becoming more and more common.

[jajuan]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

Various news stories pointing to the Press Release  that the CT Board approved work at the Medical District station. I guess the earlier stories were only about the TIF.

One thing in the Press Release not indicated in the stories is that an elevator is gong in at Ogden.

Sketch is on the project page.

Well with the canopy destruction at the Paulina side walkway a few weeks ago due to those bad storms, the project is coming right on time.

[Juniorz]

Didn't anyone think that the Paulina incident fastracked this renovation. Was this anticipated to start this year, maybe so, but it just seems a "little rushed" and another TIFF loan that may bite the CTA in the future.

[Busjack]

22 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Didn't anyone think that the Paulina incident fastracked this renovation. Was this anticipated to start this year, maybe so, but it just seems a "little rushed" and another TIFF loan that may bite the CTA in the future.

No. CTA would have just put up something ramshakle. Maybe it sped up that this work will start at Paulina.

Also, it is a city TIF (like at Wabash and Washington, Morgan, and Cermak Green Line), so CTA is not on the hook (CTA press release, maybe not surprisingly 2-1/2 years ago).

Note at the end, it says "The intergovernmental agreement for the project funding is subject to City Council approval."

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

No. CTA would have just put up something ramshakle. Maybe it sped up that this work will start at Paulina.

Also, it is a city TIF (like at Wabash and Washington, Morgan, and Cermak Green Line), so CTA is not on the hook (CTA press release, maybe not surprisingly 2-1/2 years ago).

Note at the end, it says "The intergovernmental agreement for the project funding is subject to City Council approval."

Right my thinking was that the timing of the storm destroying the Paulina walkway canopy merely coincided with the timing of the project and that it probably spearheads the work starting at Paulina. That's about it. Beyond that, the storm damage to the walkway probably increases the chances that the City Council approves the agreement for funding the project. There's no way Emanuel is going to let the Council drag its feet on approval to funding renovating a station that, while largely important to the Medical District area, sits close to the heart of the largely minority populated West Side especially when he can put his name in front of CTA getting the renovation done. With all the rest that's been on his plate, he doesn't need the bad press reaching the at minimum three very important voting blocs that use the station (African Americans, medical community, and college students) that the city stood in the way of the station being renovated in light of the significant damage to a part of the station making its planned renovation work even more important, which is how the media coverage could be spun. 

[Busjack]

55 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Beyond that, the storm damage to the walkway probably increases the chances that the City Council approves the agreement for funding the project.

They did way before the contract was approved by the CT Board, in fact on April 2, 2014.*

So, unless you credit the City Council with great foreseeability, the rest is irrelevant.

__________________

*You must have missed my statement that the CTA Press Release I cited was 2-1/2 years old.