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On 3/11/2021 at 4:13 PM, BusHunter said:

If this keeps up New Flyer might have to switch models. Lol!! Was reading on the net that New Flyer was shut out of cities around the novabus plant (eastern Canada) That might make sense considering it's a French company and the east in canada is predominately french.  Someone was saying New Flyer is strong on the west coast. No novas out there. Might be cause they have no west coast plant at nova. They also claim the nfs are prone to rust. Maybe talking more about the older style bus. The xcelsior is mostly composite. But lots of people dont like the body roll on the xcelsior. Novas have the distinction of having slick floors when they are wet. Plus the AC really sucks bad!! But that's my opinion. I tell you mcts might get the novabus electric running before these proterras!! Lol!!

New Flyer's probably has more competion on the west coast on account of Gillig and Eldorado. However, they're still the dominant force, in part because of Seattle and to some extent, San Francisco, especially where trolleybuses are concerned. However, Gillig has a trolleybus model now, that they've debuted in Dayton, so it'll be interesting to see the outcomes on that front.

The farthest south and west I've seen novabus is houston. I think they might also be in San Antonio. Can't think of anywhere beyond that. With the distance those buses have to travel, might be easier to ship them by rail lol.

New Flyer is really the only bus company with national reach. I haven't seen a Gillig east of Pittsburg or a Nova west of Houston. Haven't seen eldorado east of Chicago with the exception of Rutgers and CUNY's shuttle services..

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At least two 44xx units, 4424 and 4438, are now part of the First Transit fleet for U of MN Twin Cites. 3333 looks like it could be from MCTS as well, however the mirrors and obviously fleet number do

Just when you thought all the MCTS 4400's were retired bus 4434 picks me up this morning on Route 76

These photos are from around a month ago now, but for those who may not have already seen photos elsewhere from the Bus History Association's 2016 Milwaukee region convention and transit properties to

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10 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

New Flyer's probably has more competion on the west coast on account of Gillig and Eldorado. However, they're still the dominant force, in part because of Seattle and to some extent, San Francisco, especially where trolleybuses are concerned. However, Gillig has a trolleybus model now, that they've debuted in Dayton, so it'll be interesting to see the outcomes on that front.

The farthest south and west I've seen novabus is houston. I think they might also be in San Antonio. Can't think of anywhere beyond that. With the distance those buses have to travel, might be easier to ship them by rail lol.

New Flyer is really the only bus company with national reach. I haven't seen a Gillig east of Pittsburg or a Nova west of Houston. Haven't seen eldorado east of Chicago with the exception of Rutgers and CUNY's shuttle services..

Probably one thing with distance deliveries is that it increases the contracted price so if contracts are decided by bidding it makes the contract unwinnable. Eldorado buses are going 2000 miles to deliver. 

Novabus in the last year expanded its Canadian plant. It sounds like it's getting more Canadian orders. I think something that makes it attractive here is that it has a service center not far away out by O'Hare. NF doesnt have that plus the fire with 700 probably raises a few flags. But it probably is  that nova just outbid everyone. They must have got the AC units on sale. Lol!! Surprised southern states would go with nova. The ac is not a factor in canada. Probably some buses dont even have ac. 

I tell you from a drivers perspective the novas with a cab forward design are most likely easier to drive with good sightlines. I drive a cab forward bus myself and I like it over a flat nose bus. With its wide entranceway I'm surprised it's not a bigger force iin the articulated market but its 60 foot products are relatively new compared to Nf. So it has to pull away the nf market share for that model. 

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26 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Probably one thing with distance deliveries is that it increases the contracted price so if contracts are decided by bidding it makes the contract unwinnable. Eldorado buses are going 2000 miles to deliver. 

Novabus in the last year expanded its Canadian plant. It sounds like it's getting more Canadian orders. I think something that makes it attractive here is that it has a service center not far away out by O'Hare. NF doesnt have that plus the fire with 700 probably raises a few flags. But it probably is  that nova just outbid everyone. They must have got the AC units on sale. Lol!! Surprised southern states would go with nova. The ac is not a factor in canada. Probably some buses dont even have ac. 

I tell you from a drivers perspective the novas with a cab forward design are most likely easier to drive with good sightlines. I drive a cab forward bus myself and I like it over a flat nose bus. With its wide entranceway I'm surprised it's not a bigger force iin the articulated market but its 60 foot products are relatively new compared to Nf. So it has to pull away the nf market share for that model. 

Well the Novabuses in Houston & San Antonio are CNG. Now that I'm typing this, I haven't seen CNG Nova's anywhere outside Canada (maybe the next PACE order lol), so maybe that might have to do with the decision.

I feel like the bigger front doors don't help if people had to still stop and pay. Bigger doors would make sense for the rear doors if they had all door boarding, but maybe that's just me.

I have to remember Nova is delivering electric buses. All the north american bus companies except Eldorado make them now, but Novabus has the least strongest foothold, especially with BYD and Proterra as competition as well. Gillig & NF both make electric buses and both have a national reach (I forgot with Gillig that transit systems aren't the only ones that buy buses, and there are some others I forgot) and Proterra's reach is basically national as well. Nova only has 5 companies with the LFSe/LFSe+ and they're all in Canada, so they're probably eager to expand on that.

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I wonder why more buses don't get shipped by rail,?  I guess it's due to responsibility.   Currently the manufacturer is on the hook for any problems until the recipient accepts the buses.   But if a problem arises between the intermodal facility and the customer,'s garage,  is it the agency. Railroad, or manufacturers issue?  Whose insurance covers that?

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Well the Novabuses in Houston & San Antonio are CNG. Now that I'm typing this, I haven't seen CNG Nova's anywhere outside Canada (maybe the next PACE order lol), so maybe that might have to do with the decision.

I feel like the bigger front doors don't help if people had to still stop and pay. Bigger doors would make sense for the rear doors if they had all door boarding, but maybe that's just me.

I have to remember Nova is delivering electric buses. All the north american bus companies except Eldorado make them now, but Novabus has the least strongest foothold, especially with BYD and Proterra as competition as well. Gillig & NF both make electric buses and both have a national reach (I forgot with Gillig that transit systems aren't the only ones that buy buses, and there are some others I forgot) and Proterra's reach is basically national as well. Nova only has 5 companies with the LFSe/LFSe+ and they're all in Canada, so they're probably eager to expand on that.

The milwaukee order is the first LFSe+ order in the united states so far. Now Racine, Wi has an order out for 9 electrics from Proterra, so it seems like the electrics are selling good. 

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6 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I wonder why more buses don't get shipped by rail,?  I guess it's due to responsibility.   Currently the manufacturer is on the hook for any problems until the recipient accepts the buses.   But if a problem arises between the intermodal facility and the customer,'s garage,  is it the agency. Railroad, or manufacturers issue?  Whose insurance covers that?

I mean it would depend on what part of the delivery phase. Whoever is driving the bus between points would be responsible for whatever incidents, the railroad responsible for anything happening while moving the buses. 

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