7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[garmon757]

I think the larger picture Busjack is pointed out is when something doesn't go to plan, CTA management isn't always automatically or immediately at fault or that there is necessarily any fault at all. At least, that's how I understood his above comment about the machinations at the plant level to mean. And trust me, that's the moment any one of us slows down and maybe take time to cool our collective heads as well as rethink the point we made after getting that particular statement from Busjack, because as we all know he is no big fan of how CTA gets operated. Those rare moments he says don't be so quick to blame CTA management for something taking a bit longer than we expected is a signal not all moving parts are being considered.

As for the rest of your point about CTA's penchant for keeping buses and railcars around longer than the recommended standard life, another thing you also have to consider is the federal and Illinois state governments don't always have their acts together in having a current federal transportation bill and/or state capital plan in place to help fund the purchase of new buses and railcars to replace any aging ones CTA has on the roster during those moments CTA isn't borrowing against its capital funds to pay for its operations side of things.

And that's fine. It's already bad enough that we ranked in the top 5 when it comes to aging fleet. As much as I hate this state because of all the bs throughout this decade, I can only watch what's next for CTA.

[Busjack]

I think the larger picture Busjack is pointed out is when something doesn't go to plan, CTA management isn't always automatically or immediately at fault or that there is necessarily any fault at all. At least, that's how I understood his above comment about the machinations at the plant level to mean. ..

No, I was making the simple factual observation.

And apparently Garmon ignored Lothian's post, and it appears that about 20 additional buses have passed the first payment stage, and since that's 30 days before the payment date, might be almost ready for delivery.

[sw4400]

YoungBusLover has twice inferred that another 7900 is on CTA property at South Shops. Anyone here know if there is another sitting down there currently?

[garmon757]

No, I was making the simple factual observation.

And apparently Garmon ignored Lothian's post, and it appears that about 20 additional buses have passed the first payment stage, and since that's 30 days before the payment date, might be almost ready for delivery.

I wouldn't say that if I were you.

[Busjack]

I wouldn't say that if I were you.

Why is that?

[garmon757]

Why is that?

I've read all of that. All I'm saying that we're somewhat behind with the deliveries in which it's frustrating me.

[Busjack]

..but CTA was late on sending payments apparently.

There are some itchy people here, but in your case, do you have any proof that CTA breached its contract?

I've pointed out several times that the contract says 50% is paid when an invoice is submitted that the bus is drivable at the factory, payable in 30 days of invoice. Have you read those provisions? What evidence do you have that CTA has not complied? Have you been on the Plattsburgh shop floor (which was my original point)?

Maybe you should stand on some bridge over I-90 and be one of those who report here when 20 buses go under it. I bet it will be sooner than later.,

[Lothian]

Here's an interesting short article featuring #7900:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/What-You-Should-Know-About-the-New-CTA-Buses/

[Busjack]

Here's an interesting short article featuring #7900:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/What-You-Should-Know-About-the-New-CTA-Buses/

Note that the CTA spokesperson again doesn't know what he or she is talking about.

The aisle has nothing to do with the number of seats. In fact, the aisle might be narrower if the seats are the 18-1/2 inch ones instead of the 17 inch ones. No bus is an airplane with 3 across seats.

Whatever the number of seats, I noted that the difference was that in the 6400s, there was a set of front facing seats between the driver's compartment and wheel well, now there is only one longitudinal one.

[BusHunter]

They seem to think buses are going into service this month. Well they got two weeks. Lol!!

[jajuan]

No, I was making the simple factual observation.

And apparently Garmon ignored Lothian's post, and it appears that about 20 additional buses have passed the first payment stage, and since that's 30 days before the payment date, might be almost ready for delivery.

Fair enough, but even with making your factual observation you're still were pointing out that there are other moving parts in play here rather than incompetence of some CTA exec that we wouldn't be all too surprised about including the fact that you point out that a few on here are a wee bit too impatient to the point of ignoring some details showing there's nothing wrong outside of the possibility of this past winter's extremes having a play in any perceived delays.

[jajuan]

Notice also the headline to the above article gives the impression that all 300 in the base order are coming all at once due to how it's worded.

[Busjack]

Fair enough, but even with making your factual observation you're still were pointing out that there are other moving parts in play here rather than incompetence of some CTA exec that we wouldn't be all too surprised about including the fact that you point out that a few on here are a wee bit too impatient to the point of ignoring some details showing there's nothing wrong outside of the possibility of this past winter's extremes having a play in any perceived delays.

I'll go along with the "impatient" part since I said some were "itchy."

Notice also the headline to the above article gives the impression that all 300 in the base order are coming all at once due to how it's worded.

True, but I had discounted the headline by the first sentence "In early May, the first of at least 300 new CTA buses..."

[sw4400]

There are some itchy people here, but in your case, do you have any proof that CTA breached its contract?

I've pointed out several times that the contract says 50% is paid when an invoice is submitted that the bus is drivable at the factory, payable in 30 days of invoice. Have you read those provisions? What evidence do you have that CTA has not complied? Have you been on the Plattsburgh shop floor (which was my original point)?

Maybe you should stand on some bridge over I-90 and be one of those who report here when 20 buses go under it. I bet it will be sooner than later.,

I made no inference that the CTA breached any contract, Busjack. What I stated is that the CTA isn't following the press release it put out when your favorite Mayor was at 74th St. Garage back in late February to introduce #7900 to the public. The release says the CTA expects to take regular delivery of the buses in April and upon inspection and acceptance start putting them on the road in May(paragraph # 5). Now jajaun's mention of the weather putting a hold on them being delivered could be true. Also, I have read from other people in other states that there have been delays on other Nova Bus orders, and that might've played a role in why CTA doesn't have anything more than 7900 on property currently(although there is the talk about another at South Shops). CTA screwed the pooch with their press release here... they should've said that they expect to take regular delivery of the buses in May and upon inspection and acceptance start putting them on the road(I think Nova Bus gave them an estimate on when more busese will be shipped from Plattsburgh to Chicago). I think even they know a delay is occurring at Nova Bus due to order backlogs... notice how 7900 only operates on #65 Grand a few times in a week and only one, maybe two round trips in the early morning? It's been tested, but they want to limit the mileage on it right now while they wait for more buses to be put in service, otherwise I'm sure that it would be all over on Chicago Garage routes.

I'm not saying we should have a dozen Novas on property now, but at least 2-3 others perhaps. It is May 15th, and the Press Release said they will take regular delivery in April(that's the words from Forrest Claypool and his staff).

[Busjack]

I made no inference that the CTA breached any contract, Busjack. ...

You previously said:

And how often does CTA stick to the game plan? There should've been several more Novas on property by this time according to what they released when introducing the Smart Buses(take regular delivery of the buses inApril and after inspection and acceptance start putting them on the road in May), but CTA was late on sending payments apparently (emphasis added).

What other inference is there? CTA would be late in sending payments either because they breached the contract, or because the buses had not reached the stage of completion noted in the specifications, requiring that they make the payments, in which case they technically were not late. But, somehow you missed Lothian's point that there are 20 more buses that reached stage one, even though you copied the ledger. Hence, you accused CTA of breaching the contract.

Aside from any comment I made about statements from the ministry of propaganda, "expects" does not mean "assures." As the specifications indicate, only the inspector on the factory floor can release the buses for delivery.

Have you read the excerpts from the specifications, yet?

[jajuan]

I'll go along with the "impatient" part since I said some were "itchy."

True, but I had discounted the headline by the first sentence "In early May, the first of at least 300 new CTA buses..."

I read the article sir. It still doesn't change the fact that the headline gives an initial impression going into the story that all the buses were coming at once.

[jajuan]

I made no inference that the CTA breached any contract, Busjack. What I stated is that the CTA isn't following the press release it put out when your favorite Mayor was at 74th St. Garage back in late February to introduce #7900 to the public. The release says the CTA expects to take regular delivery of the buses in April and upon inspection and acceptance start putting them on the road in May(paragraph # 5). Now jajaun's mention of the weather putting a hold on them being delivered could be true. Also, I have read from other people in other states that there have been delays on other Nova Bus orders, and that might've played a role in why CTA doesn't have anything more than 7900 on property currently(although there is the talk about another at South Shops). CTA screwed the pooch with their press release here... they should've said that they expect to take regular delivery of the buses in May and upon inspection and acceptance start putting them on the road(I think Nova Bus gave them an estimate on when more busese will be shipped from Plattsburgh to Chicago). I think even they know a delay is occurring at Nova Bus due to order backlogs... notice how 7900 only operates on #65 Grand a few times in a week and only one, maybe two round trips in the early morning? It's been tested, but they want to limit the mileage on it right now while they wait for more buses to be put in service, otherwise I'm sure that it would be all over on Chicago Garage routes.

I'm not saying we should have a dozen Novas on property now, but at least 2-3 others perhaps. It is May 15th, and the Press Release said they will take regular delivery in April(that's the words from Forrest Claypool and his staff).

If you say you hear that other TAs have come into delays in getting their orders from Nova and that you acknowledge that the weather could have played a factor in whatever perceived delays, how do you figure CTA fouled up by saying April would be when they start taking delivery and actually thought that would be the case? If the weather slowed things down, that means NO one fouled up anything since the last time I checked, no one has control of the weather. So you are being rather antsy about this.

[Sam92]

Wow ok I'm really surprised no one caught this before me. 77th is now running 7900. I saw it this morning passing my job as #24 Wentworth

[YoungBusLover]

Wait that's what that was? I thought it was a 6800's loaner from 74th running the 24,but i guess not because it was moving so fast.

[BusHunter]

Wow ok I'm really surprised no one caught this before me. 77th is now running 7900. I saw it this morning passing my job as #24 Wentworth

Hey wait a minute, I thought they weren't supposed to run novas Lol!! You know what this means. That 77th could be getting #7900's otherwise I don't see the point of the test.

[jajuan]

Hey wait a minute, I thought they weren't supposed to run novas Lol!! You know what this means. That 77th could be getting #7900's otherwise I don't see the point of the test.

Considering I made a point a couple of months ago that more was going on with the removal of Novas from 77th than just getting ready for the 7900s delivery en masse, it's possible. And I'm admitting here that would mean my thought that 77th got taken out of the running because of that removal was mistaken. As I mentioned then, I had based that thought on the logical idea that they'd stick to garages that currently have an allotment of 6400s. I know, I know. Crazy to think CTA management would follow a logical pattern.

[Sam92]

Considering I made a point a couple of months ago that more was going on with the removal of Novas from 77th than just getting ready for the 7900s delivery en masse, it's possible. And I'm admitting here that would mean my thought that 77th got taken out of the running because of that removal was mistaken. As I mentioned then, I had based that thought on the logical idea that they'd stick to garages that currently have an allotment of 6400s. I know, I know. Crazy to think CTA management would follow a logical pattern.

Well, with it being 7900 and no other NOVA, maybe it's just testing out at another garage? I saw it early this morning but haven't seen it since (then again I was busy prepping food on the line plus haven't had a chance to sweep bus tracker for it). Idk exactly how busy #65 Grand is as a route but #24 Wentworth is VERY light in ridership so maybe they're still testing and want to give it a go on some lighter routes

[sw4400]

Well it makes sense, being that 77th dumped their 6400's to FG for all their 1000's and 74th for some of theirs. 77th wants all the decent to new equipment and wants to turn in the high mileage, soon-to-be retired buses to other garages. It works, as FG has always had the on the way out buses in the past with the Flyers and M.A.N Americanas in 2002-2004.

[sw4400]

Well, with it being 7900 and no other NOVA, maybe it's just testing out at another garage? I saw it early this morning but haven't seen it since (then again I was busy prepping food on the line plus haven't had a chance to sweep bus tracker for it). Idk exactly how busy #65 Grand is as a route but #24 Wentworth is VERY light in ridership so maybe they're still testing and want to give it a go on some lighter routes

If it's just more testing(and that's what I'm thinking as they don't want too many miles put on it, as this is the #7900 CTA is probably getting, not a test #7900 and another #7900 with this newly-paid group of buses), then maybe it will go system-wide?

[jajuan]

Well it makes sense, being that 77th dumped their 6400's to FG for all their 1000's and 74th for some of theirs. 77th wants all the decent to new equipment and wants to turn in the high mileage, soon-to-be retired buses to other garages. It works, as FG has always had the on the way out buses in the past with the Flyers and M.A.N Americanas in 2002-2004.

The Flyers are a bad example for the simple fact that FG did have Flyers for a considerable stretch of time in the early 1990s before they got sent to Limits and got sent back to FG after Limits closed in the mid 90s. And does it need to be pointed out yet again that FG pushed off its 5300s and what 4400s it still had from a prior trade of FG 5300s for 77th 4400s to even spread out air conditioned buses at the time on to Kedzie for Kedzie's 6000s shortly after Kedzie got those 6000s and got picked over Kedzie to get 6400s even though Kedzie had been an Americana garage for all the time that Americanas were in service except that period after late 2002 when the last Novas arrived and as stated went to FG? So FG was NOT short changed during that time frame and the thoughts of otherwise along with the accompanying ignoring of the above stated factors really do need to stop.