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The map error situation posts have been moved to this topic due to it's irrelevancy on behalf of the Washington/Wabash topic.

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On 4/14/2017 at 3:42 PM, MRChiCity said:

25 years ago yesterday http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2017/04/great-chicago-flood-anniversary/ I think the State and Dearborn Street Subways were shut down by this. 

Yes I remember that. Both subways were flooded after a construction crew accidentally knock a whole in a tunnel under the Chicago river causing flooding in other tunnels including the State and Dearborn subways. As I recall the Dearborn subway got more extensive damage than State Street subway. So Howard-Englewood/Jackson Park service was disrupted for a relatively short period while what was then the Congress/Douglas-O'Hare service was out for a few weeks I think. I don't remember as much about the State Street disruption, but I do remember that what is now the Blue Line was running in two sections, between O'Hare and Division and between Racine and Forest Park or 54/Cermak (since as we all know much of what is now the Pink Line was still part of what became the Blue Line 25 years ago). The section between Division and Racine was covered by shuttle express buses from various garages. From Division/Milwaukee buses mirrored the #56 route up to State Street, ran along State to Harrison I believe, and ran on Harrison to Racine station. So if anyone remembers Americanas on a portion of Milwaukee as well as on Harrison in the early 90s after the #7 and #60 became accessible, this is the reason.

EDIT: I did a bit more digging and old Tribune articles state that Howard trains ran over the top on the Elevated tracks along the Ravenswood tracks south of Fullerton and along the Lake and Wabash portions of the Loop Elevated through downtown. Shuttle buses were in place between Fullerton and Clark/Division.

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Yeah i used to hang out down around Division/Milwaukee. I remember they had buses stacked for over 2 blocks and there was no parking on Division eb from Damen east. . All buses boarded on the SW corner of Division/Milwaukee. The furthest I ever saw the buses was by that red bricked school on Division and almost Oakley. (Don't know the name) Racine was less crowded but they had hoards of people at Division. A train could load at least 4 buses and we are talking in some cases artics. I think I remember all garages helping out even 103rd.

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WGN News said (but not in those words) that CTA had a "medical emergency" and "police activity" at the Garfield Red Line platform.According to the text, the "medical emergency" occurred across the street, where someone took a bullet.

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7 hours ago, Busjack said:

WGN News said (but not in those words) that CTA had a "medical emergency" and "police activity" at the Garfield Red Line platform.According to the text, the "medical emergency" occurred across the street, where someone took a bullet.

Various sources this morning kept saying the man was shot on the platform (including the headline of the WGN article you linked). So they quoted a bunch of CTA riders saying how they don't feel safe anymore. However, the text of the article does say the actual shooting was across the street, which was the result of an argument on the platform.

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2 hours ago, Pace831 said:

So they quoted a bunch of CTA riders saying how they don't feel safe anymore.

One of the passengers interviewed on ABC7 at 6:00 p,m. was Daniel Ryan. He did not comment on why the line was no longer named after him.

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Just goes to show, with cameras, it might help catch a suspect, but it won't help a crime in progress from occurring. You would think though it would act as a deterrent, but in spur of the moment shootings, most just act and don't care about the cameras. 

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55 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Just goes to show, with cameras, it might help catch a suspect, but it won't help a crime in progress from occurring. You would think though it would act as a deterrent, but in spur of the moment shootings, most just act and don't care about the cameras. 

The question in this case is that the CA told them to get out of the vestibule and they took it out to the street, but there were enough people around (if only the CA) that the police were called and apprehended the suspect fairly quickly. Unless the CA is going to disarm all passengers (and TSA isn't on the L), it doesn't take that long to shoot someone.

Usually the cameras are there for "do you recognize this person," but that wasn't necessary here.

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So they are letting operators wear cubs hats on the cubs buses cause theres one right now on #1763. 

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4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Just goes to show, with cameras, it might help catch a suspect, but it won't help a crime in progress from occurring. You would think though it would act as a deterrent, but in spur of the moment shootings, most just act and don't care about the cameras. 

And you finally getting what the cameras were meant for. They are meant to catch suspects, not really as deterrents to crimes. CTA pretty much say that when they state in their camera warnings on buses, trains and at train platforms and station houses that any and all activity may be recorded when you use the given CTA service. They pretty much are talking more to criminals in those warnings saying if you thinking of doing a criminal act on CTA property and vehicles, do so at your own risk as they will be cooperating with law enforcement and turning over their camera footage in any relevant investigation.

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

So they are letting operators wear cubs hats on the cubs buses cause theres one right now on #1763. 

Well if you're going to have the Cubs bus, may as well complete the package by allowing the operator a Cubs hat when he drives the bus.xD They already have a precedent with CTA employees dressing to the theme through the Holiday bus and trains.

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Came across another interesting operator on the #76. When she gets a semi full bus, to about the front wheel well she tells everyone that she is full to take the bus behind her. She left about 3 people at logan square blue line but at kimball she says only the first 3 can ride and strands 9 people. You know how the fta rule claims you cant run a bus if your past the yellow line, basically in the path of the front door, which is enforced on pace but not cta. Well she was enforcing the rule. First time ive seen this on a cta bus and ive been on thousands of buses. If i was her follower i would be po'ed because at times she could have had more riders even enforcing the rule. Bus was #6675 its headed west right now btw next bus which was  right behind her was about 6 or 7 blocks away accounting for traffic that would probably be a 6-9 minute wait.

 

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56 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Came across another interesting operator on the #76. When she gets a semi full bus, to about the front wheel well she tells everyone that she is full to take the bus behind her. She left about 3 people at logan square blue line but at kimball she says only the first 3 can ride and strands 9 people. You know how the fta rule claims you cant run a bus if your past the yellow line, basically in the path of the front door, which is enforced on pace but not cta. Well she was enforcing the rule. First time ive seen this on a cta bus and ive been on thousands of buses. If i was her follower i would be po'ed because at times she could have had more riders even enforcing the rule. Bus was #6675 its headed west right now btw next bus which was  right behind her was about 6 or 7 blocks away accounting for traffic that would probably be a 6-9 minute wait.

 

Packing  people in  like  sardines doesn't  work well  either.   Consider a  person sitting  down near the  front.  How much maneuverability  do they have to  get to the front  door to  get off? No one  seems interested in  moving to  accommodate  the people who  wish to get  off or on.  Packing people in like sardines  only  allows the  bus down.   No one seems interested in  waiting for the  next  bus (or train) unless  it's visible  (within 2 blocks).  This operator  could  halfway  keep  a schedule  and keep  herself  out of  hot water.  If some  car cuts  her off and she's  forced to  slam the  brakes,  the chances of passengers  getting  injured  are reduced  and her chances of  disciplinary action  is diminished. We always  want  safety  first  until  we are  inconvenienced. 

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18 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Packing  people in  like  sardines doesn't  work well  either.   Consider a  person sitting  down near the  front.  How much maneuverability  do they have to  get to the front  door to  get off? No one  seems interested in  moving to  accommodate  the people who  wish to get  off or on.  Packing people in like sardines  only  allows the  bus down.   No one seems interested in  waiting for the  next  bus (or train) unless  it's visible  (within 2 blocks).  This operator  could  halfway  keep  a schedule  and keep  herself  out of  hot water.  If some  car cuts  her off and she's  forced to  slam the  brakes,  the chances of passengers  getting  injured  are reduced  and her chances of  disciplinary action  is diminished. We always  want  safety  first  until  we are  inconvenienced. 

It would be alright if it was a universal rule applying to all buses. I don't know if she has the right to do that or not, but it's not fair to her follower and it's not fair to the riders. Imagine if the next bus was 20 minutes. I don't know, I just didn't like it. She was telling people too to stay behind the front door. If we're interested in safety, a moving vehicle with an operator distracted with an obsession to keep an aisle clear doesn't work either. Her attention should be on driving and not where her passengers are standing.

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22 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

It would be alright if it was a universal rule applying to all buses. I don't know if she has the right to do that or not, but it's not fair to her follower and it's not fair to the riders. Imagine if the next bus was 20 minutes. I don't know, I just didn't like it. She was telling people too to stay behind the front door. If we're interested in safety, a moving vehicle with an operator distracted with an obsession to keep an aisle clear doesn't work either. Her attention should be on driving and not where her passengers are standing.

As you acknowledged, there is the DOT sign, and any other answer would be whether the Computer Aided Dispatch worked as represented. CTA has said that the max. capacity of a 40 foot bus is about 78. However, with various cut downs of the fleet, no one has enforced it, except this driver.

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19 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Came across another interesting operator on the #76. When she gets a semi full bus, to about the front wheel well she tells everyone that she is full to take the bus behind her. She left about 3 people at logan square blue line but at kimball she says only the first 3 can ride and strands 9 people. You know how the fta rule claims you cant run a bus if your past the yellow line, basically in the path of the front door, which is enforced on pace but not cta. Well she was enforcing the rule. First time ive seen this on a cta bus and ive been on thousands of buses. If i was her follower i would be po'ed because at times she could have had more riders even enforcing the rule. Bus was #6675 its headed west right now btw next bus which was  right behind her was about 6 or 7 blocks away accounting for traffic that would probably be a 6-9 minute wait.

 

 

18 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Packing  people in  like  sardines doesn't  work well  either.   Consider a  person sitting  down near the  front.  How much maneuverability  do they have to  get to the front  door to  get off?...If some  car cuts  her off and she's  forced to  slam the  brakes,  the chances of passengers  getting  injured  are reduced  and her chances of  disciplinary action  is diminished. We always  want  safety  first  until  we are  inconvenienced. 

 

34 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

It would be alright if it was a universal rule applying to all buses...

This is exactly why the CTA needs to enforce the yellow line rule. It's not there to look pretty, that line serves a purpose; no standees beyond it. I've had overcrowded buses on #152 after 3p due to Lane Tech(Novas and New Flyer D40LF's) where the driver lets them cram up to the front door. One time, the kids wouldn't move and I had to yell at them to move so I can get off. This is not something I should have to do, there should be adequate room to leave the bus. I've seen an overcrowded Flxible 6000-Series back in the day on Belmont where after the Kimball Blue Line going WB, it was packed. Passengers took up all the seats, all the aisle room and where even standing on the stairs right up to the front door. The Bus Operator was yelled at a few times in the back because he couldn't see those wanting to get off at the next stops when they were at the back door due to the overcrowded conditions.

There is a severe issue with an overcrowded bus like this.... if the bus needed to be quickly evacuated, there would be an issue with the wall of people, which could result in injuries from pushing and shoving. That's one main reason for that yellow line..... moving space for emergencies.

Alleviation can be achieved with artics, I'm sure. #77 definitely needs some at high peak times with the Kimball Blue Line stop, or implement an "A" and "B" service on it, where "A" goes to the Subway and "B" stays on Belmont; same can be done for Diversey. For #152, NP, FG or CTA Brass have the Artic runs start at Western and go west from there, but the kids overcrowd as early as Oakley. Why not start an Artic at Lake Shore and Waveland and run WB on Addison from there around 3p? This way, they pick up the groups at Oakley and Western, and whatever artics they start running west from Western down Addison can stop at Campbell and pick up the rest of the large group of kids boarding(and that bus sitting there gets crammed, I seen it several times driving past while it's parked)

Now I know there's an issue with artics on certain sections of Belmont, light tight or impossible turns. But maybe the bus can run to Central or Harlem and come back EB rather than go to Cumberland. Most of the crowd will have probably gotten off somewhere between Central and Harlem anyway. I don't know if Diversey would have an issue with artics on the route, but it's worth a looking at to alleviate the overcrowding, which is actually very dangerous.

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As far as the CTA, there is no yellow line, so to me that states that this rule is not enforced. Most likely this is due to the crowds who would just delay the service and be packing buses later and later. An overcrowded bus will still affect the back door, yellow rule or not. Question is, is this an actionable offense at CTA, or can the operators do it freely. To me, it seems to be the same aggravation/stressor, while you might not have a full bus, you have to constantly check your riders and inform them of what you want them to do, to board or not, stand where you want them to stand, and risk an argument to anyone's that's combative. While this may have been alright this time, get the wrong crowd and you will have a disturbance on the bus. The bus does have mirrors and can see over the passengers on a low floor bus, there is one that is right over the front door and lets the operator see the door, so while it doesn't look safe, it's safer than the average joe would think. This just takes a more concentrated effort by the operator to scan his/her bus. I'm sure if it was a problem CTA rules would change, the fact that they haven't makes me believe it's OK and the feds are not intervening, so I don't see the problem. Now I might enforce the rule on a high floor because the passengers are at a higher place in the bus and are more difficult to see over them, but how they are trained should dictate how they should perform in their duties. Would be a good question for an instructor though or brass.

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Daily Herald: Man arrested for trying to set CTA seats on fire near Rosemont. I bet he doesn't make bail.

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Sun-Times story that GSK suffered a $3 million jury verdict for an antidepressant that caused someone to have a "medical emergency" in the Blue Line subway.

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14 hours ago, trainman8119 said:

Yellow line has nothing to do with transit buses. It applies to school buses.

The law does apply to all buses.

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On 4/19/2017 at 1:24 PM, BusHunter said:

As far as the CTA, there is no yellow line, so to me that states that this rule is not enforced. Most likely this is due to the crowds who would just delay the service and be packing buses later and later. An overcrowded bus will still affect the back door, yellow rule or not. Question is, is this an actionable offense at CTA, or can the operators do it freely. To me, it seems to be the same aggravation/stressor, while you might not have a full bus, you have to constantly check your riders and inform them of what you want them to do, to board or not, stand where you want them to stand, and risk an argument to anyone's that's combative. While this may have been alright this time, get the wrong crowd and you will have a disturbance on the bus. The bus does have mirrors and can see over the passengers on a low floor bus, there is one that is right over the front door and lets the operator see the door, so while it doesn't look safe, it's safer than the average joe would think. This just takes a more concentrated effort by the operator to scan his/her bus. I'm sure if it was a problem CTA rules would change, the fact that they haven't makes me believe it's OK and the feds are not intervening, so I don't see the problem. Now I might enforce the rule on a high floor because the passengers are at a higher place in the bus and are more difficult to see over them, but how they are trained should dictate how they should perform in their duties. Would be a good question for an instructor though or brass.

That's not correct BH. The 1000's for example have a yellow line to the back of the bus operator right between the front edge of that model's front wheel wells. So passengers would need to be standing behind at least that point if the operator was enforcing the rule. As for Trainman's mention of school buses, standees are no allowed on school buses in general as is usually painted on the outside of most school buses somewhere near where the school bus's seating capacity is marked.

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Hmm thats news to me. I dont see what youre talking about.

 

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