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Pulse (Milwaukee Avenue Route)

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metra NC was only rush hour service although it was promised as a full service line.  maybe Metra should have held off opening it for say never since its still not a full service line.  the station houses were inbound only.   it was only later several yrs when the 'expansion added outbound waiting sheltered and the rosemont shiller park frankin park and cicero stations.  still has limited rush and infrequent off peak service no weekend service.   metra shouls not have opened this line using such logic

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9 minutes ago, west towns said:

metra NC was only rush hour service although it was promised as a full service line.  maybe Metra should have held off opening it for say never since its still not a full service line.  the station houses were inbound only.   it was only later several yrs when the 'expansion added outbound waiting sheltered and the rosemont shiller park frankin park and cicero stations.  still has limited rush and infrequent off peak service no weekend service.   metra shouls not have opened this line using such logic

Assuming you're responding to me, you missed the part where I'm not as concerned about outbound shelters being finished on time for a primarily peak commute route and also that Metra (NCS or otherwise) isn't really a good comparison service for Pulse. Furthermore, I wasn't born until 1999, so I have no idea what the NCS was promised to be when it opened in 1996; if there was a given reason why the line remained peak only for the most part (say, due to ridership), I am also fine with the "full service" not and/or never being realized. Furthermore, was the 2006 "expansion" part of the original plan, or was it just an expansion? If the latter, your reason for including it is moot. If the former, I'd have been ok provided a reasonable statement had been released (i.e. no money, etc).

Back to the topic at hand, I currently see no good reason (happy to be wrong on this) as to why Pulse couldn't have started until at least the all the shelters were finished (in either direction) and ideally TSP was in place and working, especially since the latter is an advertised feature. They've had to time to do this (although I can understand wanting it operational before school starts), and it's not like moving back the date would have absolutely caused irreparable harm. I'd be less upset if the full suite of BRT features were being added (bus only lanes, off-board fare collection, etc) but all they had to do was build fancy (but nice) shelters and ensure TSP was operational, and neither task has been completed.

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NF:  opening anything without being 100% is standard business practice anywhere it goes on all the time.  restaurants have soft launches residential condos/apts complexes open  without all units amenities in , developments open in pieces.  people get tired of waiting and loose interest.

Perfectionism and 100% are not the standard and does more harm than good.  doing any type of project  even a home remodeling ,not everything goes as planned need to work around it.   holding out for the perfect is often worse than not gradually opening    people get it they see improvements coming  what is worse is to hold up a  project for x months just to have one last piece in.

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3 hours ago, west towns said:

NF:  opening anything without being 100% is standard business practice anywhere it goes on all the time.  restaurants have soft launches residential condos/apts complexes open  without all units amenities in , developments open in pieces.  people get tired of waiting and loose interest.

Perfectionism and 100% are not the standard and does more harm than good.  doing any type of project  even a home remodeling ,not everything goes as planned need to work around it.   holding out for the perfect is often worse than not gradually opening    people get it they see improvements coming  what is worse is to hold up a  project for x months just to have one last piece in.

The quote function is really useful btw. You also seem to be missing my point(s)

  • If all the stations were completed for at least their basic function, but missing minor fixes (real-time arrival missing, light not working, etc) I wouldn't be as concerned. However, for several of these stations, that's not the case. 
  • Furthermore, they've had a year and some change to have this completed and this wasn't a particularly ambitious project. Certainly nowhere near the scale of Ashland Jump, Loop Link, etc.
  • I'm ok with things not going as planning, stuff happens. My thing is accountability; why aren't the stations ready? why isn't TSP active? These are things Pace needed to release a statement about or push the opening date back until it was ready. It not like at this point everything else was going to magically disappear. It's not an "improvement" if amenities promised at the beginning were rolled out "later"
  • "Standard business practices" can't wholly be applied to a public transit agency

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33 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

It is now on WebWatch as route 100: Milwaukee Pulse Route.

That doesn’t seem to be an official route number, as it doesn’t appear elsewhere, and duplicates a CTA number. Most likely, it was entered that way to place it at the top of the Webwatch list.

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6 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The quote function is really useful btw. You also seem to be missing my point(s)

  • If all the stations were completed for at least their basic function, but missing minor fixes (real-time arrival missing, light not working, etc) I wouldn't be as concerned. However, for several of these stations, that's not the case. 
  • Furthermore, they've had a year and some change to have this completed and this wasn't a particularly ambitious project. Certainly nowhere near the scale of Ashland Jump, Loop Link, etc.
  • I'm ok with things not going as planning, stuff happens. My thing is accountability; why aren't the stations ready? why isn't TSP active? These are things Pace needed to release a statement about or push the opening date back until it was ready. It not like at this point everything else was going to magically disappear. It's not an "improvement" if amenities promised at the beginning were rolled out "later"
  • "Standard business practices" can't wholly be applied to a public transit agency

funny how government is supposed to "act" like a business but held to a higher standard when it acts like a business.  so what is it cant have it both ways.  

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14 minutes ago, west towns said:

funny how government is supposed to "act" like a business but held to a higher standard when it acts like a business.  so what is it cant have it both ways.  

I, personally, am not of the mindset that government is supposed to wholly act/operate like a business nor should it be held to a higher standard, (certainly a different one) but we've significantly derailed from the topic at hand and I'm not sure how many different ways I can explain this to you: Without any form of notice or reason as to why TSP and stations aren't finished, there is currently no good reason (or at least a good enough reason) why the line should have opened without said features, especially considering all the traditional features of BRT (bus-only lanes, off-board fare payment, etc) weren't being implemented. And as I have also said before, I'm happy to be wrong about this, but you haven't provided anything that shows this, so I'll continue to stand by what I said until I find information that says otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

That doesn’t seem to be an official route number, as it doesn’t appear elsewhere, and duplicates a CTA number. Most likely, it was entered that way to place it at the top of the Webwatch list.

It also appears as Route 100 on my Ventra Transactions

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On 8/14/2019 at 6:12 PM, andrethebusman said:

et's see what happens in three months. That is how long it usually takes for carping to be heard by the top.

The top will NEVER admit to making a mistake, whether there is proof of it or not.

Funny, all those Pulse pictures and amazingly not a soul around to ride them.

The inside of those buses with the purple tone is dark and depressing.

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On 8/17/2019 at 10:26 AM, west towns said:

metra NC was only rush hour service although it was promised as a full service line.  maybe Metra should have held off opening it for say never since its still not a full service line.  the station houses were inbound only.   it was only later several yrs when the 'expansion added outbound waiting sheltered and the rosemont shiller park frankin park and cicero stations.  still has limited rush and infrequent off peak service no weekend service.   metra shouls not have opened this line using such logic

There is a reason for this. When NCS started, there was limited service gauging ridership. Off peak service was provided by Pace routes 960 and 961. 

When the service was increased, 960 and 961 were eliminated. The contracts Metra had were with the Wisconsin Central RR which was purchased by

the Canadien National RR. The CN has no real desire to provide passenger service. The WC promised Metra the possibility of night and weekend service.

The CN when taking over said no. In fact, if you see the last inbound trip (train 120) it operates via the Fox Lake subdivision. That is because the CN would

not allow that train to operate south of Grayslake. There is even talk now that after Metra did their NCS cuts a year or so ago, that they are questioning the wisdom

of the cuts and would perhaps like to reinstate those trains...but the CN may not let them even though they are allowed 20 trains.

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For all the hoopla and planning you would think they would have been completely ready to go on this.

This has been in the wish list pipeline for 20+ years. It is being rushed through because someone has an agenda on it.

It is an overhyped overspent covered up service DECREASE  since it is not servicing ALL of the people on

Milwaukee Ave equally. To spend money on what is nothing more than an elaborate bus stop, required wrapping (or painting)

signal preemption (which wont help you in rush hour with the traffic leading up to said signals) is a waste on something

that could be better spend on other projects. There will be some that MIGHT ride this and be happy, but IMO the majority of

of passengers will be disserviced in some way.

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1 hour ago, trainman8119 said:

For all the hoopla and planning you would think they would have been completely ready to go on this.

This has been in the wish list pipeline for 20+ years. It is being rushed through because someone has an agenda on it.

It is an overhyped overspent covered up service DECREASE  since it is not servicing ALL of the people on

Milwaukee Ave equally. To spend money on what is nothing more than an elaborate bus stop, required wrapping (or painting)

signal preemption (which wont help you in rush hour with the traffic leading up to said signals) is a waste on something

that could be better spend on other projects. There will be some that MIGHT ride this and be happy, but IMO the majority of

of passengers will be disserviced in some way.

For me, the proper way to do this would always have been full suite & service BRT on Halsted from 95th to 154th (Harvey), with the 352 (chicago heights branch), 8A & 108 providing local service. Halsted could've used the road diet any with those three lanes.

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3 hours ago, trainman8119 said:

The top will NEVER admit to making a mistake, whether there is proof of it or not.

Funny, all those Pulse pictures and amazingly not a soul around to ride them.

The inside of those buses with the purple tone is dark and depressing.

I see the Pulse wrapped buses parked on Clark St. north of Wrigley Field waiting out the games.  Most of them have their destination signs off, but at least one had a far north suburban sign.

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1 hour ago, strictures said:

I see the Pulse wrapped buses parked on Clark St. north of Wrigley Field waiting out the games.  Most of them have their destination signs off, but at least one had a far north suburban sign.

That seems.. unusual? Surely they can't be using these buses for 282 service?

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18 hours ago, Pace831 said:

That doesn’t seem to be an official route number, as it doesn’t appear elsewhere, and duplicates a CTA number. Most likely, it was entered that way to place it at the top of the Webwatch list.

 

1 hour ago, strictures said:

I see the Pulse wrapped buses parked on Clark St. north of Wrigley Field waiting out the games.  Most of them have their destination signs off, but at least one had a far north suburban sign.

was this before pulse started on the 11th?

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21 hours ago, trainman8119 said:

There is a reason for this. When NCS started, there was limited service gauging ridership. Off peak service was provided by Pace routes 960 and 961. 

When the service was increased, 960 and 961 were eliminated. The contracts Metra had were with the Wisconsin Central RR which was purchased by

the Canadien National RR. The CN has no real desire to provide passenger service. The WC promised Metra the possibility of night and weekend service.

The CN when taking over said no. In fact, if you see the last inbound trip (train 120) it operates via the Fox Lake subdivision. That is because the CN would

not allow that train to operate south of Grayslake. There is even talk now that after Metra did their NCS cuts a year or so ago, that they are questioning the wisdom

of the cuts and would perhaps like to reinstate those trains...but the CN may not let them even though they are allowed 20 trains.

The 960 & 961 which provided off peak and evening service from Franklin Park & Des Plaines to Libertyville (960) and Libertyville - Antioch (961) served only the NC stations at Metra fares. They started 2/3/97 (6 months after the RH train service started on 8/19/1996) and were a complete failure. I caught an afternoon 960 once and was the only passenger from Mundelein to Des Plaines! Both routes were withdrawn 8/28/98 many years before the expansion to 20 trains on 1/30/2006.

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On 8/18/2019 at 10:41 AM, NewFlyerMCI said:

For me, the proper way to do this would always have been full suite & service BRT on Halsted from 95th to 154th (Harvey), with the 352 (chicago heights branch), 8A & 108 providing local service. Halsted could've used the road diet any with those three lanes.

Road diet is a term the "driving is a sin" crowd uses. Make roads narrower. Lawrence Ave Western to Ashland prime example. More congested than ever. Does this discourage use? Of that road, yes, in total, no. Just makes nearby roads more congested too.

 

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32 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Road diet is a term the "driving is a sin" crowd uses. Make roads narrower. Lawrence Ave Western to Ashland prime example. More congested than ever. Does this discourage use? Of that road, yes, in total, no. Just makes nearby roads more congested too.

 

Here you go again making an unsubstantiated claim about a perceived group of people that you don’t like.

If what you described happens, it wasn’t implemented properly. That doesn’t mean the whole concept is bad.

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24 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Here you go again making an unsubstantiated claim about a perceived group of people that you don’t like.

If what you described happens, it wasn’t implemented properly. That doesn’t mean the whole concept is bad.

Road diets in Chicago never work as advertised.   Chicago's traffic engineers are totally incompetent.  Maybe 15-20 years ago, the Trib had a long article & interview with a Chicago traffic engineer.  The following is an exact quote from that article that I've never forgotten: "We don't believe in left turns, we want traffic to go straight"!  As an example of that, numerous intersections in the city still don't have left turn arrows, despite the fact that there are left turn lanes.  One of the worst of these intersections is Logan & Elston.  Most WB cars on Logan want to turn left onto Elston for all the shopping there, but must wait out several red lights, due to the lack of a left turn arrow!

Several years ago, Skokie planned a road diet for Oakton, from Skokie Blvd., west to past the library.  Being far more intelligent than Chicago's numbskulls, they tested it out first with cones & jersey blocks.  They cancelled it within two weeks!

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20 minutes ago, strictures said:

Road diets in Chicago never work as advertised.   Chicago's traffic engineers are totally incompetent.  Maybe 15-20 years ago, the Trib had a long article & interview with a Chicago traffic engineer.  The following is an exact quote from that article that I've never forgotten: "We don't believe in left turns, we want traffic to go straight"!  As an example of that, numerous intersections in the city still don't have left turn arrows, despite the fact that there are left turn lanes.  One of the worst of these intersections is Logan & Elston.  Most WB cars on Logan want to turn left onto Elston for all the shopping there, but must wait out several red lights, due to the lack of a left turn arrow!

Several years ago, Skokie planned a road diet for Oakton, from Skokie Blvd., west to past the library.  Being far more intelligent than Chicago's numbskulls, they tested it out first with cones & jersey blocks.  They cancelled it within two weeks!

If the road is already too congested, narrowing it will not discourage enough people from driving to reduce the congestion. This is an example of what I meant by “poorly implemented”. There needs to be some surplus capacity to work with to have the desired effect.

FHWA Guidance

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On 8/21/2019 at 4:26 PM, andrethebusman said:

Road diet is a term the "driving is a sin" crowd uses. Make roads narrower. Lawrence Ave Western to Ashland prime example. More congested than ever. Does this discourage use? Of that road, yes, in total, no. Just makes nearby roads more congested too.

 

I don't believe driving is a sin, just that there are more efficient ways to funnel traffic. Also, lanes wouldn't have been made narrower, especially since one lane was supposed to be converted into BOL, in my vision at least. Ultimately, I still believe Halsted would've been the best place to start with Pulse, although I'm not sure the current issues wouldn't have still presented itself

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