Last TMC RTS

[MRChiCity]

This is the last TMC RTS before going from NP to South Shops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7eMQtKXzU  man do I miss those buses. Hey CTA 5750 did you comment on the video?  Yes MR Huberman this sure isn't your fathers CTA, by the way what garages other then NP and Chicago, and Kedzie had these buses? 

[Busjack]

This is the last TMC RTS before going from NP to South Shops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7eMQtKXzU  man do I miss those buses. Hey CTA 5750 did you comment on the video?  Yes MR Huberman this sure isn't your fathers CTA, by the way what garages other then NP and Chicago, and Kedzie had these buses? 

​Pretty much all of the garages had them at some time. The 4400s started out at 77th, NP, and K, but when the 1995 buses came in (5800s and 6000s), some garages' allotments of 4400s were split among A, C, 103, 74 [when it opened] and FG [some of the FG ones were a result of a swap with 77th when there were complaints that there weren't enough air conditioned buses on the south side]. Garages that got Novas in 2001-2002 lost their 4400s to other garages.

The only garage that didn't get both RTSs and Flxs on a regular basis was NP not getting Flxs, except as loaners.

Lourdes C is where 5750's stuff turns up.

[BusHunter]

Seems funny. Why does #4519 have a 103rd sticker.

[sw4400]

Seems funny. Why does #4519 have a 103rd sticker.

​It was probably a transfer in and they just never changed the garage sticker. A lot of the NP TMC's were breaking down and were requiring too much maintenance to put back in service. Many of them were the 4400's(4400-4499), upper 4500's(4550-4599), some mid to upper 4600's, one or two 4700's(4710, 4741 and 4762 I recall on #11 in the past) and a few 4800's(I recall 4822 on #11).

#4456 was breaking down out of service heading back to NP with a maintenance van behind it.

#4678 conked out with transmission failure

A TMC totally was immovable at Lincoln and Grace SB(I don't remember the bus #, but I watched it for several minutes as they tried putting in "D" and "R", cycling in and out of "N", holding the brakes down for a second, releasing and pressing the accelerator only to have the engine rev up, but not move. They even cycled the wheelchair lift several times to no avail.)

#4484 sounded awful, best I could describe it was sounding like the engine was moaning as it was accelerating.

And finally, many of the assigned NP stock was sluggish(not that the TMC's in general weren't, but many there maxed out at maybe 25-35 mph.

[trainman8119]

Seems funny. Why does #4519 have a 103rd sticker.

​Not only that it is showing a 77th street run in the run box !!

BTW CTA operators....is that a tradition to mark up a bus in a farewell when a model is retired at a garage ??

 

[BusHunter]

I doubt Peoria would want a marked up bus. Another thing. Doesn't the farebox removal happen at south shops? It would seem the bus was drove in to np for an operator farewell party.

[jajuan]

​Not only that it is showing a 77th street run in the run box !!

BTW CTA operators....is that a tradition to mark up a bus in a farewell when a model is retired at a garage ??

 

​It had that 77th run number because the last few TMCs in CTA service ended their service lives as 77th buses. I don't know why they had this one up at NP to do a TMC retirement party. 

[Busjack]

​It had that 77th run number because the last few TMCs in CTA service ended their service lives as 77th buses. I don't know why they had this one up at NP to do a TMC retirement party. 

​It might be because while a few might have ended at 77th, NP had the largest number for the longest time. 77th dumped most of its by around 2001.

[jajuan]

​It might be because while a few might have ended at 77th, NP had the largest number for the longest time. 77th dumped most of its by around 2001.

​True. 77th though if I remember right had many of the other garages' 4400s dumped on it in those final months as more 1000s came pouring in which by that point were largely the days of the second batch of the odd even split between NP and 103rd and after that an even odd split between NP and 77th.

[MRChiCity]

Interesting photo of Forest Glenn https://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosgarnp.html when did they have TMC's? 

[sw4400]

56 minutes ago, MRChiCity said:

Interesting photo of Forest Glenn https://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosgarnp.html when did they have TMC's? 

They had them in the early 2000's and post-rehab, I know that. I don't know exact bus block assignments(maybe @BusHunter) can enlighten us there, but I can give you some numbers I personally seen on Irving Park back in the day to fill in the blanks a bit...

4567, 4684, 4687, 4689, 4695, 4697, 4700, 4705, 4708, 4710, 4711, 4713, 4717, 4725, 4741, 4757, 4761, 4765, 4767, 4770, 4774, 4777, 4784, 4787, 4790,

4795, 4855, 4856, 4857, 4858, 4859, 4860, 4861, 4862, 4863, 4864, 4865, 4866, 4867, 4869, 4870, 4871, 4873

[cta5658]

37 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

They had them in the early 2000's and post-rehab, I know that. I don't know exact bus block assignments(maybe @BusHunter) can enlighten us there, but I can give you some numbers I personally seen on Irving Park back in the day to fill in the blanks a bit...

4567, 4684, 4687, 4689, 4695, 4697, 4700, 4705, 4708, 4710, 4711, 4713, 4717, 4725, 4741, 4757, 4761, 4765, 4767, 4770, 4774, 4777, 4784, 4787, 4790,

4795, 4855, 4856, 4857, 4858, 4859, 4860, 4861, 4862, 4863, 4864, 4865, 4866, 4867, 4869, 4870, 4871, 4873

Then around late 2001 or early 2002, some of those TMC's went to 103rd, 77th and 74th

[Busjack]

They also had a block in the 4700s

• In a swap when the south side complained it didn't have enough air conditioned buses, around 1993-5
• Then it kept them and got back the 5500s loaners after the 6000s arrived in 1995 (77th got 6000s).
• When the 6400s started arriving at other garages, it got some 4600s.
• As @sw4400 noted, when the rehabs started, and it was decreed that outdoor "garages" would get only buses with preheaters to the extent possible, FG relied on 6000s from K, but kept some rehabbed TMCs. NP ran pretty much only rehabbed 4400s (and MAN Americanas and artics).
• The TMCs finally moved out when FG became 6000s and 6400s (2002).

[MRChiCity]

Didn't FG also have MAN's around the same time they had TMC's? 

[Busjack]

7 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Didn't FG also have MAN's around the same time they had TMC's? 

I don't know if there was coexistence, but basically FG didn't get MANs until the Flyers were gone. Hence, any such period would have been brief.

[jajuan]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:42 PM, cta5658 said:

Then around late 2001 or early 2002, some of those TMC's went to 103rd, 77th and 74th

Don't forget Kedzie, which gets into Busjack's point below. 

On 5/6/2017 at 8:07 AM, Busjack said:

They also had a block in the 4700s

• In a swap when the south side complained it didn't have enough air conditioned buses, around 1993-5
• Then it kept them and got back the 5500s loaners after the 6000s arrived in 1995 (77th got 6000s).
• When the 6400s started arriving at other garages, it got some 4600s.
• As @sw4400 noted, when the rehabs started, and it was decreed that outdoor "garages" would get only buses with preheaters to the extent possible, FG relied on 6000s from K, but kept some rehabbed TMCs. NP ran pretty much only rehabbed 4400s (and MAN Americanas and artics).
• The TMCs finally moved out when FG became 6000s and 6400s (2002).

I think it was more 1995 after 74th had replaced 69th as I don't remember seeing what was at that time FG's higher numbered assigned 5300s on the south side until about then. If I remember right, 77th most of the buses out of 5545 through maybe the 5620s, and Archer got 5600 up to the 5650s. In the mentioned moves of late 2001 to early 2002, which we know is when 6400s deliveries transitioned from 77th to Archer, the block of 4700s that you remember largely went to Kedzie to replace Americanas being retired and/or displaced, 

18 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Didn't FG also have MAN's around the same time they had TMC's? 

Not really. The TMCs were largely gone from FG by the time Americanas appeared at FG during the spring and summer of 2002. As @Busjack noted, any shared time at FG of TMCs and Americanas was very brief. 

[Busjack]

32 minutes ago, jajuan said:

I think it was more 1995 after 74th had replaced 69th

In 1995, 74th got approximately 6220-6329 (new), approx 4490-4554 from NP when NP got the 5800s, and MAN Americanas. Never got 5300s. My memory was that FG has basically 5498-56xx something, but mid 5600s were at 103.

Essentially, then the question becomes where the TMCs went in about 2002, when the 6758+ went to FG.

There was also the about 2001 preheater swap, when FG got K's 6000s and K got FGs 5300s. Didn't affect TMCs, though, to the extent they were rehabbed.

[BusHunter]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

In 1995, 74th got approximately 6220-6329 (new), approx 4490-4554 from NP when NP got the 5800s, and MAN Americanas. Never got 5300s. My memory was that FG has basically 5498-56xx something, but mid 5600s were at 103.

Essentially, then the question becomes where the TMCs went in about 2002, when the 6758+ went to FG.

There was also the about 2001 preheater swap, when FG got K's 6000s and K got FGs 5300s. Didn't affect TMCs, though, to the extent they were rehabbed.

If you guys look on my lifetime assignments list (links on my cta roster page) you'll see what buses were where. The list is complicated with all its changes in roster assignments over the years but it does give you a glimpse of where buses were stationed. 

I remember when the 6000's arrived only the first 230 arrived at first. It was a few weeks, again exact dates on the roster, and then #6230 - #6329 showed up all at 74th. 74th had no 6000s before this.  Basically the 4400s in the post rehab years were assigned by whether they had the preheaters installed or not. There was a big issue on this, i also uploaded the NW side press article on this. Np and fg, outdoor garages,  had all the rehabbed buses. Alot of the #4800's were rehabbed first so they went to the glen. Alot of the low #4400's were not rehabbed and went south to places like 74th. As more buses got rehabbed blocks went to new locations like the high #4800's went to 74th and never returned to 77th again where they debuted. 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

74th had no 6000s before this.

Because then it was 69th. In any event, buses assigned to 74th didn't hit the street until 74th opened. Then there was the announcement that 9, 55, 63 and a couple of others became accessible.

[BusHunter]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Because then it was 69th. In any event, buses assigned to 74th didn't hit the street until 74th opened. Then there was the announcement that 9, 55, 63 and a couple of others became accessible.

Nope the #6000's were never at 69th cause it closed before these #6000's arrived. They didn't even get to 74th until 5/1996, two months after the last of the #6229 block came in. And even then #6231-32 debuted at Kedzie, but later in the 2000's, from #6212 - #6230 (#6231-32 was only at Kedzie for a limited time) went to 74th from Kedzie. I don't know if the last batch was delayed because the last 100 were ordered late or they just decided to build that batch late. I thought i remember the interior number decals being slightly bigger on the 74th ones, like something happened to the spec or the buses were rushed through.

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Nope the #6000's were never at 69th cause it closed before these #6000's arrived. They didn't even get to 74th until 5/1996, two months after the last of the #6229 block came in

It's more likely that Flxible was told to hold back production until 74th was ready to receive them, Flxible still having other orders before it folded.

Only debate might be exactly when 69th closed,but again one is talking only 1 or 2 months. Not much different than if I didn't get a picture of the Pulse buses,in trying to determine when they actually were delivered. In any event, the buses couldn't be used until a capital improvement was made,. Maybe a few got out before the announcement was made that the routes were accessible.

[BusHunter]

69th closed 6/95 according to the chirailfan site. I'd have to look up when 74th opened but it must been close to when chicago opened and i believe that was around 4/95.

[Busjack]

8 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

69th closed 6/95 according to the chirailfan site. I'd have to look up when 74th opened but it must been close to when chicago opened and i believe that was around 4/95.

One closed, the other opened. There isn't any evidence they operated in tandem, except maybe for training purposes.

[jajuan]

On 5/7/2017 at 10:59 AM, Busjack said:

In 1995, 74th got approximately 6220-6329 (new), approx 4490-4554 from NP when NP got the 5800s, and MAN Americanas. Never got 5300s. My memory was that FG has basically 5498-56xx something, but mid 5600s were at 103.

Essentially, then the question becomes where the TMCs went in about 2002, when the 6758+ went to FG.

There was also the about 2001 preheater swap, when FG got K's 6000s and K got FGs 5300s. Didn't affect TMCs, though, to the extent they were rehabbed.

Yes your memories on this line up with mine on most items, though I didn't remember how far into the 4500s that transfers of TMCs to 74th went. Also I remember that a few years after 74th opened, 4490 through about 4502 would make their way from 74th to Kedzie along with a few 4480s from NP. If I'm not mistaken they were the first TMCs to return to Kedzie after Kedzie's 1990s casting off of TMCs in large part to Archer to make room for 6000s. 

On 5/7/2017 at 2:46 PM, Busjack said:

Because then it was 69th. In any event, buses assigned to 74th didn't hit the street until 74th opened. Then there was the announcement that 9, 55, 63 and a couple of others became accessible.

In addition to the three you remember clearly, 8 and 67 were also among the first of 74th routes that were announced accessible. A relative short time after those announcements 44 and 59 would quickly become about the only routes at 74th not declared accessible for a while and further cutting 74th's Americana count down to barely 30-35 buses, taking into account Americanas that were retired. The transition from 69th to 74th by way of Americanas 4175-4221 approximately going to NP in addition to K starting to get back Americanas loaned out for two years for helping on the 38 Michigan Express had already reduced Americana numbers by about half. During the time of 44 and 59 being the two routes down there still not accessible, K would get back its Americanas sent south during the Green Line shutdown plus buses up to 4108 while NP would gradually get further Americanas down to as low as 4150 with 74th still having the surviving Americanas out of 4109-4149. At the retirement of the Flyers in 2002, about half those plus what surviving Americanas formerly assigned to 103rd made their way to FG, which gets into MRChiCity's questions about Americanas at FG in our discussions above. 

[MRChiCity]

Look at this , two things that are long gone. By the way was Kedzie or Chicago running the 20 Madison bus at this time? Did Chicago have any TMC's? Thanks