1000-series D40LF - Updates & Retirements

[sw4400]

Only thing is Bushunter mentioned seeing 1165 with a lot more work done on it than a new Clever Devices monitor that the operators log in to. The new headlights that are supposed to be part of the gut rehabs was part of that work done from what Bushunter said he saw noticeable on that bus.

That might've had a rehab. Was it the "gut" rehab they're supposed to get, it might be hard to tell... He said the seats were the same. I thought they would've at least got the seats seen on the later #1300's until #2029. I think all they do is rebuild the current stock engine and install it again, so I don't know if one can tell by hearing it drive and idle that it was rehabbed.

They said these buses would be transformed into a "like new" fleet after rehab. I think that would include the same seats in all 1,029 buses, all LED lights in all 1029, any other amenities in the interiors to all 1,029 buses. Rebuilt Cummins ISM Engines in 1000-1629 and Cummins ISL Engines in 1630-2029 with rebuilt transmissions for all 1,029 buses. Painting and body work would be on a case-by-case basis. #1305 and #1482 should return to service unless the CTA has decided that it's not worth the work to put them back in service and are only rebuilding 1,028 buses rather than 1,030.

[jajuan]

That might've had a rehab. Was it the "gut" rehab they're supposed to get, it might be hard to tell... He said the seats were the same. I thought they would've at least got the seats seen on the later #1300's until #2029. I think all they do is rebuild the current stock engine and install it again, so I don't know if one can tell by hearing it drive and idle that it was rehabbed.

They said these buses would be transformed into a "like new" fleet after rehab. I think that would include the same seats in all 1,029 buses, all LED lights in all 1029, any other amenities in the interiors to all 1,029 buses. Rebuilt Cummins ISM Engines in 1000-1629 and Cummins ISL Engines in 1630-2029 with rebuilt transmissions for all 1,029 buses. Painting and body work would be on a case-by-case basis. #1305 and #1482 should return to service unless the CTA has decided that it's not worth the work to put them back in service and are only rebuilding 1,027 buses rather than 1,029.

Just because it didn't get new seats doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a gut rehab. Seats are a cosmetic issue, making it minor compared to say rebuilding the inner workings of the bus. As I said before, in spite of Emanuel's 'everything redone except the frames' comment I still take CTA's like new line to mean the focus is more on the buses' inner workings with all the cosmetic items bonuses added in to go with the more important parts (rebuilding the engines, transmissions and the like and working on the electrical systems) to extending how long these buses last on the road.

[garmon757]

I don't think new Clever Devices boxes mean the bus has been rehabbed. I was on #1246 this afternoon and it had the new, bigger Clever Devices screen. However, the lighting was still the same florescent lights in them before. I think they are just changing out the Clever Devices in all 1,030 buses as a light rehab, floating rehab, or whatever they might call it.(that could probably be done in a matter of hours and at the home garages of the buses). The 20 DE40LF's might get these new Clever Devices as well. I don't really think the really big "gut" rehabs will start until we get NOVA LFS Series II in 2014, which will mean the six or more New Flyers out of service for a strip down and rebuild won't really be missed. The NOVA LFS Series I will remain in service as substitute and extra buses, at least maybe around 100-200 of them until the rehabs are completed, which should be done by Summer or Fall, 2014. At that point the rehabs should be pretty much done, most of the NOVA LFS Series II will be on CTA property and the "newest" of the NOVA LFS Series I(which start in the 6690's and go to 6883) will have reached the twelve-year mark and be eligible for retirement per FTA requirements.

I think that Forest Glen Garage have a extraordinary advantage of getting the new Novas first because of the dominance of the old Novas. However, 77th Garage can be an exception too.

[sw4400]

Looking garage by garage by quantity of NOVA LFS Series I, this will probably be the delivery order...

• Forest Glen(161 Buses)
• 77th(136 Buses)
• 74th(106 Buses)

Chicago only has 70 on it's roster and those could be easily replaced/retired by moving around some New Flyers. I don't know if they'll stick 70 new buses there, that seems like a really small fleet, IMO.

[Busjack]

Looking garage by garage by quantity of NOVA LFS Series I, this will probably be the delivery order...

• Forest Glen(161 Buses)
• 77th(136 Buses)
• 74th(106 Buses)

Chicago only has 70 on it's roster and those could be easily replaced/retired by moving around some New Flyers. I don't know if they'll stick 70 new buses there, that seems like a really small fleet, IMO.

Unless you are assuming that 100 artics should have retired 100 Novas last week, you are 103 short.

[sw4400]

Unless you are assuming that 100 artics should have retired 100 Novas last week, you are 103 short.

I know that there are 450 NOVA LFS on order. The figures you see are the rosters of NOVA LFS(6400-6883) that are at the respective garages. This is where the new buses will be assigned to first in 2014 most likely based on a NOVA replaces NOVA thought. Any remainder after assignment here might...

• Be distributed to the three garages above in blocks or...
• Be distributed to one or two other garages in the system

Also, I didn't include Chicago which has 70 NOVA LFS buses in stock.

[BusHunter]

#1165 was definitely rehabbed, the bus has been repainted. There was no rust around the back door at all. It might be that that was a prototype of the work to be done. Back in the day #4768 was the first bus rehabbed when the TMC's received their rehab. I remember that bus was around that whole summer and suddenly #4474 showed up in the fall on the #22. (the second rehab) Maybe all these buses we have been seeing are incomplete. When they did the TMC's they got the air conditioning installed first and many buses went then to be repainted and receive the digital tailights and so on. But i do believe #1005 has the new rehabbed engine.

[Busjack]

I know that there are 450 NOVA LFS on order. ...

No there aren't. The order is for 300, but there are options for another 150, not exercised as of yet.*

*Press release to refresh your recollection.

[sw4400]

No there aren't. The order is for 300, but there are options for another 150, not exercised as of yet.*

*Press release to refresh your recollection.

Ok, I didn't take into consideration the 150 hasn't yet been approved, but the 300 coming in will be spread to the three garages above to some degree. Also...

Looking garage by garage by quantity of NOVA LFS Series I, this will probably be the delivery order...

• Forest Glen(161 Buses)
• 77th(136 Buses)
• 74th(106 Buses)

Chicago only has 70 on it's roster and those could be easily replaced/retired by moving around some New Flyers. I don't know if they'll stick 70 new buses there, that seems like a really small fleet, IMO.

Where do you see me talking about 100 articulateds retiring 100 NOVA LFS buses? This was to bring up the NOVA LFS Series II order which will be coming in next year(prototype might be in next month or in January). If it's the line highlighted in bold, I'm referring to moving D40LF's around to replace the 70 NOVA LFS buses at Chicago Garage, but that won't be until sometime in 2014.

[garmon757]

Check out this extraordinary Cummins ISM - Allison B400R Gen IV engine (2005 MTA (Maryland) D40LF)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNy5XKwbgNk

I wonder if that can be an option for the New Flyers (1430-1629) or (1630-1929) when they get rehabbed? The engine is almost similar to the Cummins ISL 8 - Allison B400 (1930-2029) but a more powerful transmisson.

[sw4400]

Check out this extraordinary Cummins ISM - Allison B400R Gen IV engine (2005 MTA (Maryland) D40LF)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNy5XKwbgNk

I wonder if that can be an option for the New Flyers (1430-1629) or (1630-1929) when they get rehabbed? The engine is almost similar to the Cummins ISL 8 - Allison B400 (1930-2029) but a more powerful transmisson.

It does sound nice, but there is the fact that this is just a rehab on engines and transmissions. What that curtails is that the buses will get their stock Cummins ISM Engines(1000-1629), Cummins ISL Engines(1630-2029), ZF Transmissions(1000-1929) and Allison Transmissions(1930-2029) rebuilt. What you are thinking here is an Engine/Transmission swap, which has happened in the past with Flyer D901 #9844 which reportedly had a Cummins Engine in it, but when it went from Beverly to Forest Glen, it had the stock Detroit 6V92TA.

Think of it like this...

If you had a 1999 Ford F-250 with 500,000 miles on it with the 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel engine and wanted it overhauled, what they would do is rebuild the engine and replace whatever components needed replacing or will soon. It's like getting a new Diesel engine for your F-250, but they're not taking the 7.3L and junking it to give you a 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel engine found in today's F-250 trucks.

[sw4400]

I will, however, say that we had a similar setup with the 1st Generation New Flyer D40LF's we got in 1995. 5800-5861 were equipped with a Detroit Series-50 Engine paired with a ZF transmission(not sure the exact model). However, 5862-5864 were equipped with a Cummins engine(perhaps a Cummins ISC or ISB) paired with a ZF Transmission. How did I know??? They sounded similar to a NOVA LFS while idling and their tailpipe out the upper left of the body was short and had a cover like the 6000's had. However, after mid-life overhauls, these "mystery engines" disappeared and were replaced with a Detroit Series-50 engine with the stock tailpipe like 5800-5861 had. I'm not sure why the switch...

[garmon757]

It does sound nice, but there is the fact that this is just a rehab on engines and transmissions. What that curtails is that the buses will get their stock Cummins ISM Engines(1000-1629), Cummins ISL Engines(1630-2029), ZF Transmissions(1000-1929) and Allison Transmissions(1930-2029) rebuilt. What you are thinking here is an Engine/Transmission swap, which has happened in the past with Flyer D901 #9844 which reportedly had a Cummins Engine in it, but when it went from Beverly to Forest Glen, it had the stock Detroit 6V92TA.

Think of it like this...

If you had a 1999 Ford F-250 with 500,000 miles on it with the 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel engine and wanted it overhauled, what they would do is rebuild the engine and replace whatever components needed replacing or will soon. It's like getting a new Diesel engine for your F-250, but they're not taking the 7.3L and junking it to give you a 6.7L Powerstroke Diesel engine found in today's F-250 trucks.

Wow nice point about the Flyer D901 #9844. I missed riding #9970 on Northwest Highway. I don't know what transmission it had but that bad boy can fly. However, I was like 7 or 8 years old. Hmmm, interesting about the F-250s but I understand where you are coming from.

[jajuan]

I will, however, say that we had a similar setup with the 1st Generation New Flyer D40LF's we got in 1995. 5800-5861 were equipped with a Detroit Series-50 Engine paired with a ZF transmission(not sure the exact model). However, 5862-5864 were equipped with a Cummins engine(perhaps a Cummins ISC or ISB) paired with a ZF Transmission. How did I know??? They sounded similar to a NOVA LFS while idling and their tailpipe out the upper left of the body was short and had a cover like the 6000's had. However, after mid-life overhauls, these "mystery engines" disappeared and were replaced with a Detroit Series-50 engine with the stock tailpipe like 5800-5861 had. I'm not sure why the switch...

If I'm not mistaken, 5861 also had the Cummins engine prior to the 5800 series rehabs.

[BusHunter]

Here's some pictures of #1583 that i took last week at Midway station on the #63. This bus has the complete rehab like #1165 has also. I got to board it and see what I missed before. They seem to be using LED interior lights that are similar in appearance to the original base order #1000's, but it is LED. It appears to be another light set that is different from the other ones. It almost looks identical to the base order lights. There is this strange purple glow at the end of each lightbar, (see pictures) The bus appeared clean, they even cleaned out the rear door exit light. It looked new. They put these handicapped seat inserts like i saw on #4320, also photographed. I guess that is something new. The greatest improvement was the acceleration. The bus takes off like the hybrid #900's. It seemed to be really responsive.

[garmon757]

Here's some pictures of #1583 that i took last week at Midway station on the #63. This bus has the complete rehab like #1165 has also. I got to board it and see what I missed before. They seem to be using LED interior lights that are similar in appearance to the original base order #1000's, but it is LED. It appears to be another light set that is different from the other ones. It almost looks identical to the base order lights. There is this strange purple glow at the end of each lightbar, (see pictures) The bus appeared clean, they even cleaned out the rear door exit light. It looked new. They put these handicapped seat inserts like i saw on #4320, also photographed. I guess that is something new. The greatest improvement was the acceleration. The bus takes off like the hybrid #900's. It seemed to be really responsive.

1000 rehab seats.png1583.png1583 interior.pngled lights.pngled lights2.png

I was on #9 with rehabbed #1579 last Friday. I didn't get a chance to take some pics because my phone was dead at the time.

[sw4400]

Here's some pictures of #1583 that i took last week at Midway station on the #63. This bus has the complete rehab like #1165 has also. I got to board it and see what I missed before. They seem to be using LED interior lights that are similar in appearance to the original base order #1000's, but it is LED. It appears to be another light set that is different from the other ones. It almost looks identical to the base order lights. There is this strange purple glow at the end of each lightbar, (see pictures) The bus appeared clean, they even cleaned out the rear door exit light. It looked new. They put these handicapped seat inserts like i saw on #4320, also photographed. I guess that is something new. The greatest improvement was the acceleration. The bus takes off like the hybrid #900's. It seemed to be really responsive.

1000 rehab seats.png1583.png1583 interior.pngled lights.pngled lights2.png

I saw the seats on a NP New Flyer in the 1300's, but it had the fluorescent lights, not LED lights.

[BusHunter]

I saw the seats on a NP New Flyer in the 1300's, but it had the fluorescent lights, not LED lights.

Look closely at the interior lights, You might be fooled because the lights are unbelievably similar. if you look at the casing it should be new, you should see vertical lines in the light itself but it's really hard to see. You should also see the purplish glow at the end of the lights. It had me fooled. You can tell from the outside of the bus by seeing brighter lights than normal. That's what I saw on #1227, which I have yet to track down for a closer look and I believe #1098's like that too, but i think that's the only two for FG. Someone asked me if they had the dark tint from the outside and from my picture it does have it but it is more faint and less noticeable.

[jajuan]

I rode on 1579 on the 9 Ashland and I concur with garmon that this bus is rehabbed also as it had those new priority seating inserts that Bushunter photographed for 1579 and it did seem to have a better response and didn't seem as sluggish as a good number of the 1000s seemed to have been getting. I hadn't even paid attention to the lighting, but the new inserts and the bus's response time caught my attention.

[sw4400]

Look closely at the interior lights, You might be fooled because the lights are unbelievably similar. if you look at the casing it should be new, you should see vertical lines in the light itself but it's really hard to see. You should also see the purplish glow at the end of the lights. It had me fooled. You can tell from the outside of the bus by seeing brighter lights than normal. That's what I saw on #1227, which I have yet to track down for a closer look and I believe #1098's like that too, but i think that's the only two for FG. Someone asked me if they had the dark tint from the outside and from my picture it does have it but it is more faint and less noticeable.

It would be hard for these colorblind eyes to see the purplish glow on the end unless they really stand out. I noticed the seat covers, but that's about it. I didn't really notice any difference in pickup on the bus while in motion compared to before.

[BusHunter]

It could've been like #1005, which didn't really have any modifications other than the headlights. I know some of these buses just seem to have the updated clever devices. So far I've just seen those few buses mentioned here as being completed. I think the Clever Devices are being replaced independently from the rehab buses.

[qwantae]

I was on #9 with rehabbed #1579 last Friday. I didn't get a chance to take some pics because my phone was dead at the time.

Last week I rode rehabbed #1591 on the 82, I can tell their newer seats with wheelchair/ person w/ kane logo.

[jajuan]

It could've been like #1005, which didn't really have any modifications other than the headlights. I know some of these buses just seem to have the updated clever devices. So far I've just seen those few buses mentioned here as being completed. I think the Clever Devices are being replaced independently from the rehab buses.

On that part of it I would agree because I'm seeing a heck of a lot more 1000s from NP with the updated Clever Devices monitors (which are touch screen by the way) but the buses themselves are clearly not rehabbed.

[BusHunter]

I finally spotted a Chicago garage bus with the full rehab, minus the headlights, #1048. The buses interior lights were really bright at night, the first time I've seen these at night. The relief driver was even talking about the lights. He didn't seem to know the bus had been rehabbed. They wrapped the outside of this bus I believe for Choppers Skull Candy, it's a purple wrap. i don't know why they would wrap a newly painted bus, unless they were concealing the fact it was not repainted.

[Busjack]

....I don't know why they would wrap a newly painted bus, unless they were concealing the fact it was not repainted.

Because CTA needs the advertising money. I doubt that there is a wet paint issue there.