BusHunter

Proterra Buses

69 posts in this topic

Biggest test I can think of for a all-electric bus would be in the night hours during the Polar Vortex. Can those Li-Ion battery powered buses operate with minimal effect on battery life due to the extreme cold? I don't know how 700 and 701 fare, but they do have a Diesel generator for the heater, which may also warm the battery area a bit. I don't know if Proterra has a Diesel generator on their buses as well.

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55 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

, which may also warm the battery area a bit. I don't know if Proterra has a Diesel generator on their buses as well.

It's to warm the passenger compartment so that the batteries are not drained just to provide heat, which probably raises the issue what Proterra does to heat the bus and run auxiliaries.

There is an article that Duluth Minn. is looking into "supplemental heating systems" for Proterra buses on order.

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Well, the article also says this much..... Proterra is more than New Flyer for these buses. The XE40 was 1.1 million/bus. The Proterra buses, when you take the 7.5 million for the 6 buses and divide by the total expected, comes to 1.25 million/bus.

So right now, an all-electric bus is a little over 1 million/bus, regardless of manufacturer. That's for the standard 40' bus. Would a 60' bus cost over 2 million?

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21 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Well, the article also says this much..... Proterra is more than New Flyer for these buses. The XE40 was 1.1 million/bus. The Proterra buses, when you take the 7.5 million for the 6 buses and divide by the total expected, comes to 1.25 million/bus.

So right now, an all-electric bus is a little over 1 million/bus, regardless of manufacturer. That's for the standard 40' bus. Would a 60' bus cost over 2 million?

I was under the impression that the price was coming down, but that was based on that the CMAQ proposal to divert the money indicated that $300K more per bus would be needed, or a total of about $800K. If, in fact, the grant to Duluth actually reflects the bid price, it looks like CTA is short.

A 60 foot bus wouldn't be double, because, basically, the body of any 60 foot bus is something like $200K over a 40 foot bus, and he additional for an exotic drive system is about the same per bus, unless an electric drivetrain would have to be that much bigger on an artic than a standard bus.

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If you had a 60 foot battery bus how many axles would you power?

I am recalling the high floor New Flyers ETBs that SF Muni operated.

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Here are the renderings for 9 of the buses, the only one not shown is "CHI CHARGE" (Yellow Submarine), which BusHunter already posted a photo of.

IMG_0470.PNG

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8 hours ago, geneking7320 said:

If you had a 60 foot battery bus how many axles would you power?

I am recalling the high floor New Flyers ETBs that SF Muni operated.

Most likely both center and back. Some series hybrids were shown like that. Certainly, in this kind of weather, I don't think you would get enough traction in the back only. Maybe they can come up with 6 wheel drive, especially since the steering would probably would also be electric.

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I wish a Transit Agency bought the Nova Bus LFE in the U.S, so we might be able to see how much one bus is retailing for there for comparison to the New Flyer XE40(1.1 million/bus) and Proterra(1.25 million/bus). That might give us a little more insight as to where the CTA may lean if all three of these companies bid on the contract when CTA puts it out(which should be next year).

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36 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

I wish a manufacturer bought the Nova Bus LFE in the U.S, so we might be able to see how much one bus is retailing for there for comparison to the New Flyer XE40(1.1 million/bus) and Proterra(1.25 million/bus). That might give us a little more insight as to where the CTA may lean if all three of these companies bid on the contract when CTA puts it out(which should be next year).

The only manufacturer of the Nova Bus LFE is Nova Bus. They know where to find CTA if they want to demonstrate a bus.

As frequently demonstrated, the only place CTA will lean is who has the lowest responsive and responsible bid. Since there hasn't been a solicitation yet, the only thing that could be inferred now is that NF, Nova, Proterra, and BYD have products to sell, and would have an equal shot if they bid, unless CTA unfairly slanted the specs to an extent that a protest would be involved. But we saw how far the protest went with the 7000s.

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2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The only manufacturer of the Nova Bus LFE is Nova Bus.

As frequently demonstrated, the only place CTA will lean is who has the lowest responsive bid. Since there hasn't been a solicitation yet, the only thing that could be inferred now is that NF, Nova, Proterra, and BYD have products to sell, and would have an equal shot if they bid, unless CTA unfairly slanted the specs to an extent that a protest would be involved. But we saw how far the protest went with the 7000s.

I mean Transit Agency...... oops.

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9 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

I mean Transit Agency...... oops.

Aside from that Nova is apparently developing in an arrangement with Quebec (but NF was developing for Manitoba), there isn't such a thing as a standard price, but a price based on CTA specs. For instance, a standard CTA 40 foot bus appears to cost about $50,000 more than a Pace 40 foot bus, based on the contract disbursement reports.

While there has to be competitive bidding, I assume that the transit agencies get an idea of the cost to put into the budget. However, there is still the question whether CTA underestimated this item in the grant reallocation application, or knows something we don't.

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23 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Aside from that Nova is apparently developing in an arrangement with Quebec (but NF was developing for Manitoba), there isn't such a thing as a standard price, but a price based on CTA specs. For instance, a standard CTA 40 foot bus appears to cost about $50,000 more than a Pace 40 foot bus, based on the contract disbursement reports.

While there has to be competitive bidding, I assume that the transit agencies get an idea of the cost to put into the budget. However, there is still the question whether CTA underestimated this item in the grant reallocation application, or knows something we don't.

Well part of the budget was from an outstanding allocation for buses in a grant or contract the CTA previously had(I believe it was for some articulated buses that we never got..... not the ridiculous 900, but something much less like 30-ish or so..... like a planned BRT program of buses that was cancelled, but CTA had the funding in hand for the buses. I was going to say the remaining 25 Nova Bus LFS buses that were never picked up, but I'm not sure on the latter.)

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2 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Well part of the budget was from an outstanding allocation for buses in a grant or contract the CTA previously had...

It was to convert 32 diesel artics to hybrids; that cost at about $300K per bus was supposed to make up the differential cost of buying 27 electrics vs 27 more diesels (see starting here).

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On 12/9/2016 at 9:22 PM, BusHunter said:

Well here are my shots for tonight

[images snipped to save bandwidth]Interesting though. Now can i pick up my paycheck for all these free promotionals of Aon and the proterra buses. It was cold out there too. No I'm not crazy, I'm a bus enthusiast!! 9_9xD

Being 'crazy', and a bus enthusiast, are not mutually exclusive! :D

Edited by pudgym29
I, not Bushunter, typed this.
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On 12/15/2016 at 0:58 PM, sw4400 said:

Biggest test I can think of for a all-electric bus would be in the night hours during the Polar Vortex. Can those Li-Ion battery powered buses operate with minimal effect on battery life due to the extreme cold? I don't know how 700 and 701 fare, but they do have a Diesel generator for the heater, which may also warm the battery area a bit. I don't know if Proterra has a Diesel generator on their buses as well.

If the Authority was to do this, the obvious route to select would be #77 Belmont which, during owl hours, has off-street loops at Halsted and Octavia, where the bus could presumably get an in-service charge.

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They need something really short with lots of stops and slow traffic to help with regenerating the bus. High speed travel like on lsd would drain the batteries quicker. 

But most of the second generation electrics, the long range ones can almost do 300 miles so that may not be an issue.

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Start painting by youtube video.  Nobody made high-quality photos :-(

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