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CTA Heritage Fleet


Kevin

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Give the cta time to build this! The interest is there! Give the cta time to create something uniquely Chicago and something special! All the suggestions and rumors seemed to be unwarranted and i'm sure some will never come into fruition. But, if you (meaning we) give the NEW! program time (and a chance), it could stand the test of time!

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14 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Give the cta time to build this!

Unless ctagifts.com generates enough money to buy back cars from IRM and similar museums, there is nothing to build. Essentially, the bus collection exists only because CTA saved these 3 buses for eons.As sw pointed out, they haven't saved any bus newer than 1960s models.Only thing recent on the rail front is the train of 2400s.

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21 minutes ago, Juniorz said:

Give the cta time to build this! The interest is there! Give the cta time to create something uniquely Chicago and something special! All the suggestions and rumors seemed to be unwarranted and i'm sure some will never come into fruition. But, if you (meaning we) give the NEW! program time (and a chance), it could stand the test of time!

 

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Unless ctagifts.com generates enough money to buy back cars from IRM and similar museums, there is nothing to build. Essentially, the bus collection exists only because CTA saved these 3 buses for eons.As sw pointed out, they haven't saved any bus newer than 1960s models.Only thing recent on the rail front is the train of 2400s.

And for me, the Flyer D901A's were my childhood.... I rode those buses a lot! To not see one in the Heritage collection saddens me... :( I know many were Fishbowl fanatics, and I rode a couple of them on Western back in the day(I can't honestly remember numbers of the series), but the Flyers I remember.... the roar and scream of the Detroit Diesel 6v71 engine as it was driven down #77 at speeds of 25-35 mph, the low rumbling idle of it at red lights and bus stops. I wish somehow, CTA could get a Flyer D901A from Winnipeg Transit if any of those 100-Series were saved(as they were shells built for CTA during the 1600-1624 arrivals). If there is one in relatively good shape mechanical-wise(maybe a little mechanical tweaking) and body-wise(I know these buses were known for cracks and rust, but Winnipeg and other Canadian Transit companies, with harsher Winters, kept them in service as long or longer than 9800-9974 and 1600-1624. They must've done body work on them), all that would be needed is get it transported to Chicago, painted to the lime/pine green livery from 1983 and slap a bus number on it(maybe #1606, for the bus that could've been if CTA didn't cripple it).

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ctagifts.com AND! private charters are anticipated to fund this program and apparently, sales from ctagifts.com warrant enough sales to fund a portion of the program. It must be presumed that the cta and "other rail industry insiders" have something in the works to continue the restoration efforts or otherwise this program wouldn't even exist in the first place. 

As mentioned before, the interest is there from the "higher-up's", let's let the cta build this into something unique and special for generations to come!

Let this program take it's time!

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2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Unless ctagifts.com generates enough money to buy back cars from IRM and similar museums, there is nothing to build. Essentially, the bus collection exists only because CTA saved these 3 buses for eons.As sw pointed out, they haven't saved any bus newer than 1960s models.Only thing recent on the rail front is the train of 2400s.

#2273-74 will probably happen as some of retired brass seem to think so and they are talking with current brass. They need a blinker door train, these sliding door trains are too modern. Probably everything else is a dream. I wonder if they'll save a #6400? I wish they would save a modern flxible, those were nice buses and last of the high floors.

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1 hour ago, Juniorz said:

ctagifts.com AND! private charters are anticipated to fund this program and apparently, sales from ctagifts.com warrant enough sales to fund a portion of the program. It must be presumed that the cta and "other rail industry insiders" have something in the works to continue the restoration efforts or otherwise this program wouldn't even exist in the first place. 

As mentioned before, the interest is there from the "higher-up's", let's let the cta build this into something unique and special for generations to come!

Let this program take it's time!

I wish I can be optimistic and hopeful, but we have no Flyers anymore, @Juniorz. All of them were scrapped between 2002-2005, with #1606 being the last one at CHBM(which was probably scrapped as well). There's no way to rebuild/restore what's already been scrapped. I doubt CTA will do a interstate(or in this case, inter-country) transport from Canada to the United States. That would require a lot of donation money for the cost of the wrecker hauling it(the Flyer, if operable, may not survive a Winnipeg to Chicago trip.... 900 miles, according to tripadvisor.com is a long ways for a 32 year old bus to be driven that may not be in pristine mechanical condition). So, sadly the only way I'll see these again is in a picture...

scan0002.jpg

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3 hours ago, sw4400 said:

So, sadly the only way I'll see these again is in a picture...

They wouldn't even look like that again, as they got the red white and blue treatment.

I don't know where you got the picture, but note the run box. And that was when they were new.

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3 hours ago, sw4400 said:

I wish I can be optimistic and hopeful, but we have no Flyers anymore, @Juniorz. All of them were scrapped between 2002-2005, with #1606 being the last one at CHBM(which was probably scrapped as well). There's no way to rebuild/restore what's already been scrapped. I doubt CTA will do a interstate(or in this case, inter-country) transport from Canada to the United States. That would require a lot of donation money for the cost of the wrecker hauling it(the Flyer, if operable, may not survive a Winnipeg to Chicago trip.... 900 miles, according to tripadvisor.com is a long ways for a 32 year old bus to be driven that may not be in pristine mechanical condition). So, sadly the only way I'll see these again is in a picture...

scan0002.jpg

The run box says it all concerning these buses. 

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43 minutes ago, Busjack said:

They wouldn't even look like that again, as they got the red white and blue treatment.

I don't know where you got the picture, but note the run box. And that was when they were new.

I attached the link of a photo post from the late Wolfman's posts to it, and that's how I got the pic(it auto embedded). The only quirks I remember reading about them is the cracks which CTA had Flyer address and the speed(many said lawn mowers could move faster than them on takeoff). Otherwise, I don't know the issues with them.

Post from the late Wolfman here:

As far as livery, it could be repainted to the 1983 livery again. It'll just take a bit of time in a paint shop getting prepped and primed, then the final coats. But it would take a hope that one of the Winnipeg Transit Flyers(ex-100-Series) are in good enough condition to be restored to an operable condition both mechanically and body-wise. But distance and cost of transport would rule this out. Only local hope would be 1606 that was last at CHBM in a crippled state, but it's most likely gone, and if it's not, a search will have to be done for a operable Detroit 6V71 if they wanted to give it the powertrain pre-rebuild in the '90's, otherwise a Detroit 6V92TA. Trans will need a rebuild.... probably everything under that engine cover will need a rebuild.

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24 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

. But it would take a hope that one of the Winnipeg Transit Flyers(ex-100-Series) are in good enough condition to be restored to an operable condition both mechanically and body-wise

Since you repeated this about 4 times, why don't you contact Winnipeg and find out? There were actually members of this forum who saved 9799.

Thanks for clarifying the source of the picture.

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41 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Since you repeated this about 4 times, why don't you contact Winnipeg and find out? There were actually members of this forum who saved 9799.

Thanks for clarifying the source of the picture.

Because

  • If they have one, it's probably #107, which is the only one I've seen in YouTube videos which is already part of a collection
  • Nobody will want to save a Flyer D901A. Cost to rebuild and transport it will be more than what #9799 was(we're talking Canada to US transport). #9799 was in California with #301 before it was driven back home and restored(but it still needs work, body looks like it's got some good sized rust holes, the video cta5750 has on YouTube, you can hear them saying the brakes need to be serviced-the previous owner did a little bit of work to make it operable again). The condition of the Flyer will probably be worse than #9799 was.

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.I for one wish they had saved a MAN Americana since that one is my favorite bus from childhood. I won't put out a hope that another TA has,one to donate because the specs would be different and it wouldn't be an authentic Chicago bus. To add on to BusHunter's last thought though, maybe an old Fresh Moves bus can be put back to old 6000s glory. Or maybe one that was a work bus. Like he said it was the last of the CTA high floors. And maybe an old 4400 is still available from work bus duty or maybe even can be retrieved from Peoria I believe it was a few went to. Those all are good heritage candidates from being the last CTA buses made in the 20th century.

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1892/1992 were in storage for too long. Modern equipment can't take sitting for years without developing all sorts of electrical problems that basically become unfixable (at least not without a LOT of time and effort). The railroads are starting to wake up to this, that current generation locomotives simply can't be laid up for long periods when traffic dies down and be expected to work when they are brought back. A 1900's interurban car could be left to sit 20 years, and with a few hours work run again. A 2000's car will never run right again if it sits two years.

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Speaking of the Fresh Moves buses, a few details: There were three, 6127, 6029, 6129. First was given to Food Desert Action Not For Profit, the actual operator of the Fresh Moves program, in 2010, the last two in 2012. All three were given back to CTA 10/29/14 after Food Desert went bankrupt. This is when they showed up at South Shops. Not sure how they ended up at Chicago Bus & Truck after that. Still trying to unravel that.

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Were any 5300s still around besides that one that went to the Chicago Police Department? The former 5800 that was last at the Fillmore/California firehouse is probably out too. And did CTA scrap the old 4900s that were workbuses already? Those would have been made part of the heritage fleet too if prior CTA management before the present brass had little insight about the possibility that a Heritage fleet would be formally started up to expand upon the heritage vintage transit vehicles they already had. The only time we really saw CTA brass pay any attention to the agency's heritage through a display of its vehicle of the past was back in 1997 for the 50th Anniversary nod. With next year being the 70th anniversary, it's really going to be a sad state of affairs for them to say they have no buses from the 1980s and 1990s, the 40th and 50th anniversary decades respectively. 

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4 hours ago, jajuan said:

Were any 5300s still around besides that one that went to the Chicago Police Department? The former 5800 that was last at the Fillmore/California firehouse is probably out too. And did CTA scrap the old 4900s that were workbuses already? Those would have been made part of the heritage fleet too if prior CTA management before the present brass had little insight about the possibility that a Heritage fleet would be formally started up to expand upon the heritage vintage transit vehicles they already had. The only time we really saw CTA brass pay any attention to the agency's heritage through a display of its vehicle of the past was back in 1997 for the 50th Anniversary nod. With next year being the 70th anniversary, it's really going to be a sad state of affairs for them to say they have no buses from the 1980s and 1990s, the 40th and 50th anniversary decades respectively. 

There were reports somewhere on here about a 4400 and/or 4900-Series TMC and maybe a Flxible 5300-Series still sitting at 77th's scrap line either late 2015 or early 2016, along with a few 6000-Series Flxibles. The condition of them, or if there still there is unknown.... we need our secret agent man, @garmon757 to maybe try to do a field trip to see what he can scope out down there. ;) 

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Currently the bone yard contains:

4901 - 4910 - 4911 - 4687 - 5454 - 6031 - 6043 - 6057 - 6095 - 6120 - 6204 - 6220 - 6227 - 6237 - 6246 - 6293 

Many of these are law dept holds - accident victims where the case is still pending. Basically all are in derelict condition, as some have been there for over 5 years.

There are also a couple of 5307's - training buses - that have been there for 10-plus years now. Also a Superior work bus. This has not seen passenger service for what, 20 years now?

Under 61st Yard is 4290, a 3500 work bus, and a 3300 work bus, all in very poor condition. Somewhere is a Carpenter work bus that CTA has lost track of - it apparently still exists, but nobody knows where!

 

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1 hour ago, andrethebusman said:

Currently the bone yard contains:

4901 - 4910 - 4911 - 4687 - 5454 - 6031 - 6043 - 6057 - 6095 - 6120 - 6204 - 6220 - 6227 - 6237 - 6246 - 6293 

Many of these are law dept holds - accident victims where the case is still pending. Basically all are in derelict condition, as some have been there for over 5 years.

There are also a couple of 5307's - training buses - that have been there for 10-plus years now. Also a Superior work bus. This has not seen passenger service for what, 20 years now?

Under 61st Yard is 4290, a 3500 work bus, and a 3300 work bus, all in very poor condition. Somewhere is a Carpenter work bus that CTA has lost track of - it apparently still exists, but nobody knows where!

 

Well, if after whatever the legal holds are about the CTA might be able to use donation money for the Heritage Collection to maybe get 4687, one of those 4900's , 5454 and one of the 6000's to an operable condition again. Once the money comes in, they can be towed to Bus & Truck or Inland Detroit Diesel in Carol Stream, IL for a restoration project. It might take time and a lot of donations, but they should do this.... the older GM's and Flxibles are nice, but they already lost the 1980's by not saving a Flyer and M.A.N Americana.... at least let's not let the prospect of having some buses from the 1989-1991 and 1995-era slip through our fingers as well.

Bus bodies could be repaired and restored... even if dented and smashed. Engines that have been sitting for a long time can be restored to working condition.

I'll turn to the legal expert of the forum.... @Busjack. How long do accident cases get tied up in court? 5 years is a very long time for cases still pending, isn't it?

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7 hours ago, sw4400 said:

I'll turn to the legal expert of the forum.... @Busjack. How long do accident cases get tied up in court? 5 years is a very long time for cases still pending, isn't it?

No, the law division is slow' 7-8 is more like it. However, like the NABIs, the parties could agree to inspect the buses and then release them.

But if any 6000s are in that category, it would be at least 6 years (out of service in 2010), and 4400s 8. The 4900s would be something else, probably work buses that no longer work.

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58 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

5454 is beyond hope. Was hit in rear, engine sitting on ground. 4910 and 4911 were work buses, probably failed on road, 4901 sat at FG long time until it was finally dragged away. Was to be work bus apparently, but died first.

What about a little Frankenbus transposing, @andrethebusman? Maybe they can do a little transposing of a Metro-E body to the Metro-B to restore it and just reseat the engine(there are enough donor shells in the boneyard. Only difference is the A/C area is slightly bent on a Metro-B and flush on a Metro-E, but if the A/C section is still good, then it's just a matter of the lower section with the quarter panels and engine cover). What about 4687? What's it's status that you can tell?

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5 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Maybe they can do a little transposing of a Metro-E body to the Metro-B to restore it and just reseat the engine(there are enough donor shells in the boneyard.

I think the fantasy has gone on far enough. All CTA is doing is trying to justify keeping the 8 2400s by saying ctagifts will pay for it.

Now, if you, or anyone, wants to buy maybe $10 million worth of tote bags (maybe it is time to replace the Albertson's/Safeway Charile Brown ones), wooden trains (with Montreal rubber tires), clothing (no Frank Kruesi slickers), or necklaces made out of tokens, maybe, but otherwise CTA is not in the business of recreating wrecks for fans. From what has been posted about FG, they have a hard enough time maintaining revenue vehicles to keep a semblance of service.

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On 6/11/2016 at 8:48 AM, Busjack said:

No, the law division is slow' 7-8 is more like it. However, like the NABIs, the parties could agree to inspect the buses and then release them.

But if any 6000s are in that category, it would be at least 6 years (out of service in 2010), and 4400s 8. The 4900s would be something else, probably work buses that no longer work.

I don't get it, the #6043 case was settled years ago. The bus that ran over the bicyclist rider around Addison/Neenah. It was on the news a long time ago yet it's still a legal hold? I think some of these buses once they get to South shops boneyard they just stay there because they are difficult to move with flat spotted tires and parts that have long since been unused. It's a bus and that's heavy and it probably costs extra to transport by flatbed. Of course they could pass that on to a bidder of scrap, but probably the transport outweighs the profit.

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