PACE supervisors

[MRChiCity]

Good afternoon, 

I have never seen a road supervisor with PACE expect once at Davis street. I always see road supervisors with the CTA and the occasional trainmaster/supervisors with Metra and Union Pacific out in the field. How come you almost never see PACE division supervisors out in the field? Thanks 

 

 

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Good afternoon, 

I have never seen a road supervisor with PACE expect once at Davis street. I always see road supervisors with the CTA and the occasional trainmaster/supervisors with Metra and Union Pacific out in the field. How come you almost never see PACE division supervisors out in the field? Thanks 

 

 

Each division has a Safety Supervisor and staff who make an appearance usually at a restructuring (such as staff at Golf Mill when there was the Niles Free Bus f-up) to give out schedules to potential passengers and see if things are working.

I suppose you could go to downtown Des Plaines and see if there is a supervisor in the middle of the flooding.

However, in general, why would Pace need street supervisors? The buses generally on half hour or hourly headways, and if they go off schedule, the TransitMaster reports it, and they have ITTF radios. Someone on the street isn't going to do anything to restore service.

For that matter, why should CTA still have street supervisors if the Clever Devices Computer Aided Dispatch is working as represented? May be an anachronism.

 

[MRChiCity]

Or in the Waukegan/Gurnee area which also got hit hard.  Also I have noticed that PACE operators call in to the division when ever they come across a unexpected road closer and they tend to get instructions right away. While on the subject how this be handled for contract operated routes? I think the PACE talk groups on STARCOM21 are only for the operated divisions.  Unless the contractors have there own radio systems? 

 

[Busjack]

16 minutes ago, MRChiCity said:

I think the PACE talk groups on STARCOM21 are only for the operated divisions.

Wrong. They are on all Pace fixed route buses. Someone published a list of ids (current one is here; although not completely accurate), and the first 2 divisions converted were Fox Valley and Naperville. Again, if they were not connected, Pace could not swap buses (such as from First Student to Fox Valley), nor would contractor routes show up on WebWatch.

There appears to be a different radio system on paratransit vehicles, which may explain why routes such as 511, 611, 668 and 669 don't show up on WebWatch, and why Pace keeps saying it has to centralize paratransit dispatch. However, he unknowingly has some calls that are community vehicles.

[MRChiCity]

I saw one talk group for contractor.

[BusHunter]

52 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Each division has a Safety Supervisor and staff who make an appearance usually at a restructuring (such as staff at Golf Mill when there was the Niles Free Bus f-up) to give out schedules to potential passengers and see if things are working.

I suppose you could go to downtown Des Plaines and see if there is a supervisor in the middle of the flooding.

However, in general, why would Pace need street supervisors? The buses generally on half hour or hourly headways, and if they go off schedule, the TransitMaster reports it, and they have ITTF radios. Someone on the street isn't going to do anything to restore service.

For that matter, why should CTA still have street supervisors if the Clever Devices Computer Aided Dispatch is working as represented? May be an anachronism.

 

CTA don't have street supervisors any more. (pretty much) What used to be point supervisors now are only at really big transit hubs like Jeff PK or 95th. Gone are the many at Central/Addison or Belmont/Central etc. The computer has eliminated that position basically. All that's left are mobile cars in any great number. That is the street supervisor nowadays.

As far as flooding is concerned, River Grove flooded again as River road is basically a River south of Irving Pk. Schiller Pk has it closed with cops cars sb. This puts all the River Rd traffic on Irving Pk which is basically bumper to bumper River rd to Cumberland eb. (even today, a saturday it was like this) I was on a #326 yesterday when the operator told me he would be turning eb at River Rd and going back to Rosemont blue line. So I walked from River Rd to Cumberland. i was basically able to walk as fast as the traffic (maybe 20 minutes to transverse) Only thing I can be po'ed about besides having to walk, was the fact that with all these computers no information was passed to the rider that this was happening. I could have easily caught a #303 and rode down Irving and walked, I let two of them pass me. The point I'm making is where is all the information at? Imagine the riders east of cumberland when they didn't even see a bus!! I suppose you could say well the webwatch would show you the bus was off route but this was a ghost bus, so it's a double failure.

BTW, FYI, Cumberland is a mess around Irving too so, if you were wondering where your #331 was that's where he was. The river is supposed to go down so maybe Monday will be better. We can only hope!!

[Pace831]

I rode in a Pace supervisor's van once when he told a driver to short turn the bus I was on to get it back on schedule, and I was the only passenger going all the way to the end of the route. Another time he had to come yell at a passenger who wouldn't pay full fare. I believe they also check for passengers waiting at stops that are bypassed due to emergency detours.

[jajuan]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:27 PM, BusHunter said:

CTA don't have street supervisors any more. (pretty much) What used to be point supervisors now are only at really big transit hubs like Jeff PK or 95th. Gone are the many at Central/Addison or Belmont/Central etc. The computer has eliminated that position basically. All that's left are mobile cars in any great number. That is the street supervisor nowadays.

As far as flooding is concerned, River Grove flooded again as River road is basically a River south of Irving Pk. Schiller Pk has it closed with cops cars sb. This puts all the River Rd traffic on Irving Pk which is basically bumper to bumper River rd to Cumberland eb. (even today, a saturday it was like this) I was on a #326 yesterday when the operator told me he would be turning eb at River Rd and going back to Rosemont blue line. So I walked from River Rd to Cumberland. i was basically able to walk as fast as the traffic (maybe 20 minutes to transverse) Only thing I can be po'ed about besides having to walk, was the fact that with all these computers no information was passed to the rider that this was happening. I could have easily caught a #303 and rode down Irving and walked, I let two of them pass me. The point I'm making is where is all the information at? Imagine the riders east of cumberland when they didn't even see a bus!! I suppose you could say well the webwatch would show you the bus was off route but this was a ghost bus, so it's a double failure.

BTW, FYI, Cumberland is a mess around Irving too so, if you were wondering where your #331 was that's where he was. The river is supposed to go down so maybe Monday will be better. We can only hope!!

The high degree of computer usage by the agencies don't really mean anything to those folks out there who have no computer access or aren't really computer savvy.  And as hard as it may be to believe in 2017, there are still a good number of passengers for whom this is still true. 

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, jajuan said:

The high degree of computer usage by the agencies don't really mean anything to those folks out there who have no computer access or aren't really computer savvy.  And as hard as it may be to believe in 2017, there are still a good number of passengers for whom this is still true. 

And drivers

[Busjack]

On 7/15/2017 at 7:27 PM, BusHunter said:

the fact that with all these computers no information was passed to the rider that this was happening

The only thing posted was on pacebus.com home page

WEATHER-RELATED DETOURS & DELAYS STILL IN EFFECT:

Des Plaines River flooding has forced buses on Routes 208, 226, 209 and 230 to detour. See more information here. Bus Tracker (real-time) information may be inaccurate in the Des Plaines area. Note that paratransit trips in all areas affected by flooding may run longer than usual. Please call Pace Customer Relations at 847-364-7223, option 3, to find out more or report problems.

There was somewhat more detailed information under the "here" link. But besides what BusHunter said, 565 must have also been affected. Note, though, that the 326 map has a flood route, although apparently not what you described

22 hours ago, jajuan said:

The high degree of computer usage by the agencies don't really mean anything to those folks out there who have no computer access or aren't really computer savvy

I see from the BusHunter segment how you got to that point, but you can't blame passengers for what wasn't there.

18 hours ago, artthouwill said:

And drivers

Only things the drivers need to know is how to log into the MDT and where the help button is.

[Pace831]

22 hours ago, jajuan said:

The high degree of computer usage by the agencies don't really mean anything to those folks out there who have no computer access or aren't really computer savvy.  And as hard as it may be to believe in 2017, there are still a good number of passengers for whom this is still true. 

I overheard one guy say he used his phone to access pacebus.com so he could look up Pace's phone number, which he then called to ask if they could track the bus. (This was part of a rant about the last bus supposedly not showing up).

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

I see from the BusHunter segment how you got to that point, but you can't blame passengers for what wasn't there.

Ummm I didn't make that statement to blame passengers for anything and don't really see where you're getting that anyway. I was merely pointing exactly what I just said which is not every passenger has that computer access to see ahead of time that a detour is in effect, though there may be some who have cell phones with internet access as Pace831 points out. But either one may not necessarily help the passenger who's out at an effected bus stop already as a particular detour goes into effect. Either way the point is that computers don't always make getting info out to passengers infallible, not to blame passengers or Pace for that matter since there's always going to be imperfections somewhere. 

[BusHunter]

My point was that there was no info. I could've been Bill Gates waiting for the bus but still had the intelligence of Elmer Fudd. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

My point was that there was no info. I could've been Bill Gates waiting for the bus but still had the intelligence of Elmer Fudd. 

Exactly, which is why I couldn't figure out @jajuan's innuendo.

I suppose Pace could do something like Metra and superimpose alerts on its Tracker map, but I guess that depends on whether Trapeze supports that and anyone thought about it until now. I wonder how well that works with all the suicides on the tracks.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

My point was that there was no info. I could've been Bill Gates waiting for the bus but still had the intelligence of Elmer Fudd. 

Stop that you silly wabbit!!!

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Exactly, which is why I couldn't figure out @jajuan's innuendo.

I suppose Pace could do something like Metra and superimpose alerts on its Tracker map, but I guess that depends on whether Trapeze supports that and anyone thought about it until now. I wonder how well that works with all the suicides on the tracks.

CTA doesn't have any updating either. Like say when a #152 is late EB it can switch at Western, but you'll never know that looking at bustracker. Only if it can flip to a designated sign display will bustracker be able to relay the info. By default the system should be programmed to only say Kedzie even though it's going to Western. But then again don't ask me why there is no blue line sign wb with all the cubs short turns on the #152. They really need to program the signs to be effective. They can't increase memory size or something? I find this astonishing in the computer age cause i can put movies on my cell phone so wth? 

Regardless your not going to be hurt as bad by CTA as Pace just due to it's increased frequency but when you are talking 30 minutes becoming an hour in rush hour this is a problem.

[jajuan]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

Exactly, which is why I couldn't figure out @jajuan's innuendo.

I suppose Pace could do something like Metra and superimpose alerts on its Tracker map, but I guess that depends on whether Trapeze supports that and anyone thought about it until now. I wonder how well that works with all the suicides on the tracks.

There was no innuendo. There was nothing wrong with BH's point. MY point though was simply that there are still things simply having more computers in and of itself ain't gonna fix. Yes Pace potentially has an easier and quicker time getting information about where roads might be blocked. But they still would need to actual human beings out there in those key spots to get info out to those passengers who get missed when getting the initial rounds of info out there. 

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, jajuan said:

But they still would need to actual human beings out there in those key spots to get info out to those passengers who get missed when getting the initial rounds of info out there. 

CTA and Metra have message boards at their stops. Pace uses the 41141 text system (if it would ever fill in the blank for the bus stop code in "Text ---- to 41141"). The various road authorities have erected barriers to keep drivers off flooded roads. Yes, it could be done without a human standing 2 feet from 5 feet of water.

[MRChiCity]

I have a question about emergency reroutes, once about 17 years ago after a MICRO Burst hit Wilmette and downed trees closed Lake Avenue  I saw a PACE bus go down 15th Street as part of the reroute. My question is how do they determine which streets to use for the reroute? Finally in a situation like I described above would a supervisor come out to monitor things? Thanks.  

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

I have a question about emergency reroutes, once about 17 years ago after a MICRO Burst hit Wilmette and downed trees closed Lake Avenue  I saw a PACE bus go down 15th Street as part of the reroute. My question is how do they determine which streets to use for the reroute? Finally in a situation like I described above would a supervisor come out to monitor things? Thanks.  

That was discussed earlier in connection with why a 626 was on Skokie Road in Wilmette, and whether the driver or dispatch decided to get off the backed up Edens. Look at here.

[Pace831]

11 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

I have a question about emergency reroutes, once about 17 years ago after a MICRO Burst hit Wilmette and downed trees closed Lake Avenue  I saw a PACE bus go down 15th Street as part of the reroute. My question is how do they determine which streets to use for the reroute? Finally in a situation like I described above would a supervisor come out to monitor things? Thanks.  

Generally what you described is true. The supervisor would be nearby to monitor the situation and stay in contact with drivers to confirm routing. I remember seeing this in action once on 504 when the police had a road blocked for some reason.

[MRChiCity]

Ok, but who determines what streets to use for a  reroute? /such as the example I mentioned above, thanks. 

[Pace831]

2 hours ago, MRChiCity said:

Ok, but who determines what streets to use for a  reroute? /such as the example I mentioned above, thanks. 

The supervisor does, considering input from the driver about what streets need to be avoided. When I was riding the 504 detour, the supervisor was on the radio giving directions.

[artthouwill]

I guess there are two types of reroutes.  There's the planned detour and the emergency  or immediate  fetour.  

In the first scenario, Pace or any transit  agency has advanced notice of a project requiring  a detour  and studies  and implements the best routing.  There are passenger notices and alerts posted  in advance.

The second scenario usually finds the first driver having to wing it.  By calling his dispatcher, perhaps the followers can be told how to detour.  Sometimes in an extended  unplanned detour, a passenger alert will go up stating  the detour is until further notice (example  the current  313 detour).  See the Detour Stops thread 

 

[MetroShadow]

8 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I guess there are two types of reroutes.  There's the planned detour and the emergency  or immediate  fetour.  

In the first scenario, Pace or any transit  agency has advanced notice of a project requiring  a detour  and studies  and implements the best routing.  There are passenger notices and alerts posted  in advance.

The second scenario usually finds the first driver having to wing it.  By calling his dispatcher, perhaps the followers can be told how to detour.  Sometimes in an extended  unplanned detour, a passenger alert will go up stating  the detour is until further notice (example  the current  313 detour).  See the Detour Stops thread 

 

Adding to the second, road supervisors can be dispatched to view the area and make the appropriate changes. Pace has done this in the past (see: flooding along the Des Plaines), along with my experiences with the agencies in the Bay Area. Send the staff out to make the call and relay the detours in a bulletin.