600-series Proterra BE40/ZX5 - Updates

[Busjack]

26 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

 I'm wondering when 63rd gets in on the action. 

The strange thing there is that while the Navy Pier and Chicago/Austin chargers were in the Construction Report, the Midway one wasn't, although it is mentioned in the Electric Bus Update.

Also strange is that while the grant for the Nova eBuses is mentioned on the FTA site, the terms of the competition wasn't. Since it wasn't to exercise Proterra options, I wonder if it was something like Toronto to try out each manufacturer's product.

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

The strange thing there is that while the Navy Pier and Chicago/Austin chargers were in the Construction Report, the Midway one wasn't, although it is mentioned in the Electric Bus Update.

Also strange is that while the grant for the Nova eBuses is mentioned on the FTA site, the terms of the competition wasn't. Since it wasn't to exercise Proterra options, I wonder if it was something like Toronto to try out each manufacturer's product.

 

I believe something about the parameters of the grant allowed CTA to directly select a manufacturer instead of putting the process out to bid.

Link to what you're talking about in regards to Toronto?

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

The strange thing there is that while the Navy Pier and Chicago/Austin chargers were in the Construction Report, the Midway one wasn't, although it is mentioned in the Electric Bus Update.

Also strange is that while the grant for the Nova eBuses is mentioned on the FTA site, the terms of the competition wasn't. Since it wasn't to exercise Proterra options, I wonder if it was something like Toronto to try out each manufacturer's product.

 

Well since they are so ga ga on novabus, might as well try them out. Proterra seems to have issues with its product longevity and support and they have this composite frame issue to think about. (Directly related to the BE series models) From what I have read I dont really see a difference in the new models frame its either wait and see or shift focus to another manufacturer. Why they would put a composite frame in a 15 ton bus which is nearly double the other bus weight boggles the mind. I can only think they are trying to lighten the bus from even more weight it had. Regardless though, the extra weight will have the pothole crews on OT as they will reek havoc on the streets. Theres nothing you can do the battery is heavy. 

As far as 63rd, it will still be awhile longer because chicago will probably get at least to #611 before anything goes to 63rd and if the confidence is not there they may all go to the #66. Probably when the weather gets warmer we'll see them more. Electric buses run better in the heat, but with all electric vehicles there may be more fire risk cause the batteries get hot while charging and so does the asphalt, so we shall see. Nobody knows what will happen until many buses are testing. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

As far as 63rd, it will still be awhile longer because chicago will probably get at least to #611 before anything goes to 63rd

Chicago already has 600-608 and all 8 have seen service besides 601 (only went into service once)

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Link to what you're talking about in regards to Toronto?

Here's a sort of an after-the-fact link, that tells the whole story, including that TTC is going whole hog with an RFP for a 300 electric bus order. TTC first ordered 20 each of BYD, Proterra, and New Flyers, but CPTDB indicates that TTC took only 10 BYDs, and what would have been the second 10 was split between the other 2.   The article says only the NFs met TTC targets, but the RFD is open to all.

[Policeman]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:49 PM, Busjack said:

 

The $23 million dollar question is whether CTA has enough confidence in them that they predominate on 66, rather than the 2 or 3 current runs.

602 is on the 157 so i guess they are confident 

[NewFlyerMCI]

1 hour ago, Policeman said:

602 is on the 157 so i guess they are confident 

That's interesting. Chestnut/Mies is close to Navy Pier and 602 is now on the 66, so I guess it took a Taylor-shaped detour

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

That's interesting. Chestnut/Mies is close to Navy Pier and 602 is now on the 66, so I guess it took a Taylor-shaped detour

With the previous reports of the buses being on 12 before going to 66, the question is what the interlining pattern is.

@maths22's tracker has both, but the same block number:

 

[Policeman]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

That's interesting. Chestnut/Mies is close to Navy Pier and 602 is now on the 66, so I guess it took a Taylor-shaped detour

It went to California instead of going downtown 

[Sam92]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

With the previous reports of the buses being on 12 before going to 66, the question is what the interlining pattern is.

@maths22's tracker has both, but the same block number:

 

Maybe a bit of both with C. I C runs on 12 go to kedzie and start a Troy run on 66 along with whatever is left of K helping on 66 doing the same. 157 could be from either end though as far as interlines since both 66 and 157 have trips at pulaski

[Sam92]

3 hours ago, Policeman said:

It went to California instead of going downtown 

 

4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

That's interesting. Chestnut/Mies is close to Navy Pier and 602 is now on the 66, so I guess it took a Taylor-shaped detour

Interline from the east end then? Was it a Fairbanks run? 

[busfan2847]

19 hours ago, Sam92 said:

 

Interline from the east end then? Was it a Fairbanks run? 

According to the 157 timetable there is a Taylor/Halsted short working from Pulaski, due at Halsted 7:40am serving students going to UIC East Campus. It is scheduled to leave Pulaski at 7:10.

The complete route is scheduled at 1 hour 7 minutes at that time of the day.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

According to the 157 timetable there is a Taylor/Halsted short working from Pulaski, due at Halsted 7:40am serving students going to UIC East Campus. It is scheduled to leave Pulaski at 7:10.

The complete route is scheduled at 1 hour 7 minutes at that time of the day.

Interesting that Taylor and Halsted would be the end of a short turn when Union Station is nearby and nearly entering peak train arrivals considering the 157 is also a commuter shuttle route .

[Sam92]

6 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Interesting that Taylor and Halsted would be the end of a short turn when Union Station is nearby and nearly entering peak train arrivals considering the 157 is also a commuter shuttle route .

 

1 hour ago, busfan2847 said:

According to the 157 timetable there is a Taylor/Halsted short working from Pulaski, due at Halsted 7:40am serving students going to UIC East Campus. It is scheduled to leave Pulaski at 7:10.

The complete route is scheduled at 1 hour 7 minutes at that time of the day.

I see 3 of these two of which are tagged school days only and most likely for some high schools. Halsted is probably a place to jump on the Expressway to position for the next run. 

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Interesting that Taylor and Halsted would be the end of a short turn when Union Station is nearby and nearly entering peak train arrivals considering the 157 is also a commuter shuttle route .

I think @busfan2847 pretty well explained that the purpose was to connect the west to UIC. Assuming that there are enough Loop Link buses from Union Station, 157's main function would be westbound.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

 

I see 3 of these two of which are tagged school days only and most likely for some high schools. Halsted is probably a place to jump on the Expressway to position for the next run. 

Probably Whitney Young HS, then. Makes more sense,

[NewFlyerMCI]

40 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Probably Whitney Young HS, then. Makes more sense,

The school trips don't make any route deviations, and Whitney Young is about 10-15 mins walking from Taylor/Loomis. Considering that the NB (really should be WB) schedule has it's school trips starting at Taylor/Aberdeen, it's probably more likely for St Ignatius and Galileo, both of which are located much closer to Taylor. Ofc, the school in this instance could also be UIC

[Sam92]

13 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The school trips don't make any route deviations, and Whitney Young is about 10-15 mins walking from Taylor/Loomis. Considering that the NB (really should be WB) schedule has it's school trips starting at Taylor/Aberdeen, it's probably more likely for St Ignatius and Galileo, both of which are located much closer to Taylor. Ofc, the school in this instance could also be UIC

 

58 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Probably Whitney Young HS, then. Makes more sense,

The monkey wrench in all of this is that none of those trips line up with @Policemans sighting of 602  on the Madison and Canal-Ogden run for 157 followed by @Busjack seeing it on 66 but point out through maths22 has those trips interlined so apparently maybe it did Madison-canal to California on the 157 then went up Kedzie to Troy for a 66 trip? 

[Tcmetro]

47 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

The school trips don't make any route deviations, and Whitney Young is about 10-15 mins walking from Taylor/Loomis. Considering that the NB (really should be WB) schedule has it's school trips starting at Taylor/Aberdeen, it's probably more likely for St Ignatius and Galileo, both of which are located much closer to Taylor. Ofc, the school in this instance could also be UIC

157 has heavy ridership from UIC students. Typically AM buses are full by Oakley and crush loaded by Ashland. Pretty much everyone gets off at Morgan or the stop after.

 

[NewFlyerMCI]

34 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

 

The monkey wrench in all of this is that none of those trips line up with @Policemans sighting of 602  on the Madison and Canal-Ogden run for 157 followed by @Busjack seeing it on 66 but point out through maths22 has those trips interlined so apparently maybe it did Madison-canal to California on the 157 then went up Kedzie to Troy for a 66 trip? 

Seems most likely. For a 20 min stint, Madison/Canal to Ogden/California is possible (and the only realistic explanation looking at the schedule). Another 20 min gap would be enough for Ogden to Chicago along Kedzie.

For me, the more interesting things are 1) Where is it coming from to start at Madison/Canal? and 2) The proterras are apparently running on the 12 as well (if 605 is any indication)

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Seems most likely. For a 20 min stint, Madison/Canal to Ogden/California is possible (and the only realistic explanation looking at the schedule). Another 20 min gap would be enough for Ogden to Chicago along Kedzie.

For me, the more interesting things are 1) Where is it coming from to start at Madison/Canal? and 2) The proterras are apparently running on the 12 as well (if 605 is any indication)

Seems like no matter what route they end up on, the run is set up to end up on 66 at some point to charge. 

[busfan2847]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:15 AM, Sam92 said:

 

I see 3 of these two of which are tagged school days only and most likely for some high schools. Halsted is probably a place to jump on the Expressway to position for the next run. 

I used to see these short workings. The first one headed empty downtown to take on another working (not the expressway), back in 2016 this was a 120 from Ogilvie. There was normally a full route 157 within minutes after the short working. The last stop for the short working was 900 W Taylor, the bus would then turn northbound onto Halsted. I assume the Proterra headed north on Halsted to Chicago then east to Navy Pier in service.

[busfan2847]

22 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Seems most likely. For a 20 min stint, Madison/Canal to Ogden/California is possible (and the only realistic explanation looking at the schedule). Another 20 min gap would be enough for Ogden to Chicago along Kedzie.

For me, the more interesting things are 1) Where is it coming from to start at Madison/Canal? and 2) The proterras are apparently running on the 12 as well (if 605 is any indication)

The  Chicago garage 12 journeys in am are westbound only and then go onto 66 Chicago.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

The  Chicago garage 12 journeys in am are westbound only and then go onto 66 Chicago.

Interesting they're doing the 12 and not the 124

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Interesting they're doing the 12 and not the 124

12 westbound would get them to Central/Harrison, which is near the Chicago/Austin terminal, 124 wouldn't do that.

Question is how it gets to the east terminal (presumably 15th/Indiana).