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ajay

2005-2009 New Flyer D40LF(Retiring)

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CTA still needs to replace the 100 6400-series Novas that are still around. The 8325s and the electric buses will probably take care of half of those in 2019. The CTA budget suggests an order of 50 with an option of another 50 in 2020 to replace the 6400s. I would imagine that the options could potentially begin to replace the New Flyers. 

The first order of 150 buses to replace the New Flyers isn't budgeted until 2021-22, so chances are they'll be around for a while. 

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29 minutes ago, geneking7320 said:

I certain hope the next buses CTA purchases have more than 36 seats.

They weren't purchased that way, I believe, just reconfigured on the 1000s and 4000s. I don't think it was too popular, I know some 4000s were converted back after a while.

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

They weren't purchased that way, I believe, just reconfigured on the 1000s and 4000s. I don't think it was too popular, I know some 4000s were converted back after a while.

Nope, most of them were purchased  that way. But, Gene, the usual spec is 37 or 38. Will continue to be so.

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4 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA still needs to replace the 100 6400-series Novas that are still around. The 8325s and the electric buses will probably take care of half of those in 2019. The CTA budget suggests an order of 50 with an option of another 50 in 2020 to replace the 6400s. I would imagine that the options could potentially begin to replace the New Flyers. 

The first order of 150 buses to replace the New Flyers isn't budgeted until 2021-22, so chances are they'll be around for a while. 

The 25 8325’s will replace the 6400’s

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18 hours ago, Aiden Tabucic said:

The 25 8325’s will replace the 6400’s

Certainly not all of them, unless 100=25.

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Well we know we're getting 20 all-electric buses from Proterra at some point starting next year Link to FY19 Budget Recommendations

"Bus investment.

CTA continued its efforts to modernize the agency’s bus fleet and work toward making Chicago one of the greenest cities in the world. In 2018, it awarded a $32 million contract for the purchase of 20 new, all-electric buses. In addition to lower emissions that benefit air quality, electric buses offer significant savings in fuel costs and maintenance costs."

Following up to @Busjack's quote in a different post...

"Over the next five years, as part of CTA’s bus modernization plan, CTA will invest $154.5 million in FY 2019-2023 for the purchase of up to 100 new, fully accessible buses, which will replace older 6400-Series buses. CTA also plans to provide for the initial installment of funds for the anticipated procurement of 150 buses, which will begin to replace 1,030 (1000-Series) buses in revenue service. In 2019, CTA will procure the remaining 25 buses to complete the recent Nova bus order."

This pretty much sums up the 20 Proterra buses are not intended for replacing the 6400-Series Nova Bus fleet that still remains. The 100 that remain not ordered yet will do so. I would speculate because all-electric buses are still being tested and CTA is slowly getting more confidence in them that this order that will most likely be placed sometime in 2019 so the buses will be here in 2020, will be for hybrids or clean diesel. The 150 buses mentioned to be ordered separately from the 100 mentioned will start retirement of the oldest 1000-Series New Flyer D40LF buses. But that will probably be procured and arrive closer to the end of FY 2019-2023

 

 

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1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

The 100 that remain not ordered yet will do so

That isn't horribly clear (in the sense of that it's 100 buses in addition to the current contracts), and clearly there are at most 100 6400s to replace. I only take it that there is claimed to be enough money in the 5 year capital plan to replace 100 6400s. What surprises me is that CTA is admitting for the first time in a capital plan that it has to replace 100 6400s. If you want to compare the comparable paragraphs in the 2018 budget:

In 2018 the CTA will procure the remaining 25 buses to complete the recent Nova bus order totaling 450 buses.  ....
Over the next five years, as part of the CTA’s bus modernization plan, CTA will invest $35.5 million in FY 2018-2022 for the purchase of 25 new Nova buses and provide for the initial installment of funds for the anticipated procurement to replace the 1000 Series buses.

First, we have the 25 buses in both years, which means (in response to a prior debate with Andre) that some money is being carried forward to be spent in 2019. Second, the paragraph I quoted said nothing about still having to replace 6400s other than completing the outstanding contract for 25, as compared to the paragraph you quoted from the 2019 budget.

Another thing to figure  (and to get back to @ajay's purported point) is that CTA didn't spend anything in this line item in 2018, and both the 2018 and 2019 five year plans are about the same at $154 million. At about $550,000/bus, that's about 280 buses, so 150 to replace NFs is roughly consistent (electrics being more). But it is certainly $300 million less than the same line item in the 2017 capital plan, which stated:

In addition, there is a second series of buses in service since 2006 are scheduled for replacement in the FY 2020-2021.

and under overhauls:

for a life extending overhaul of up to 400 additional buses prior to their planned replacement in FY 2022. The actual number of buses to receive a life extending overhaul will be determined by the size of the first of two future bus orders anticipated to replace the 1000-Series buses.

It sure looks like something happened between the 2017 and 2018 budgets that resulted in $300 million being cut and approximately 450 New Flyers once contemplated to be replaced not being replaced.

1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

This pretty much sums up the 20 Proterra buses are not intended for replacing the 6400-Series Nova Bus fleet that still remains

That's also not clear. Indications are that the 20 electric buses are going to pretty much replace the buses running on route 66 at some point. CTA is not going to run 20 electrics and 23 diesels on 66, so the diesels are going somewhere else, mostly likely Forest Glen, so that many 6400s will be replaced at some point..Also remember that the CMAQ applications justified the electric bus project as eliminating the emissions from 2002 era buses.

But to summarize, the budget only deals with money, not particular buses or bus orders, except to the extent stated.

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5 hours ago, ajay said:

Heres the reason i made this topic

Screenshot_20181026-204342.png

1684 Needs to get body work done.....god damn I never seen a flyer like that it’s telling you that Kedzie Garage don’t look out for it’s flyers 

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6 hours ago, ajay said:

Heres the reason i made this topic

Screenshot_20181026-204342.png

Didn't justify it.

See also the point I made here about NOT IN SERVICE signs..

To follow up on Aiden's point, if we believe the budget, this bus is of a high enough number that it probably is among the 400 scheduled to get the life extending rehab, and thus will be around to maybe 2026.

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44 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Didn't justify it.

See also the point I made here about NOT IN SERVICE signs..

To follow up on Aiden's point, if we believe the budget, this bus is of a high enough number that it probably is among the 400 scheduled to get the life extending rehab, and thus will be around to maybe 2026.

IF they go in order.  Looking at the Nova retirements I see a lot of older ones that should've bit it before others that are still rolling around

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1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

IF they go in order.  Looking at the Nova retirements I see a lot of older ones that should've bit it before others that are still rolling around

I should assume that in the real world, the ones with the better maintenance histories, and not highest fleet numbers, get rehabbed, but the last 2 options (1630 to 2029) have less mileage on them than say 1001-1220. But I was surprised that the last round of rehabs was essentially random, so if the date is from the last rehab date, anything can happen.

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2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I should assume that in the real world, the ones with the better maintenance histories, and not highest fleet numbers, get rehabbed, but the last 2 options (1630 to 2029) have less mileage on them than say 1001-1220. But I was surprised that the last round of rehabs was essentially random, so if the date is from the last rehab date, anything can happen.

Yeah I meant to get at that as well cause I don't know if the 6400s that are dead are mostly ex-77th 

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4 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Yeah I meant to get at that as well cause I don't know if the 6400s that are dead are mostly ex-77th 

It's always the case (especially now that Archer is gone) that 77th got the first of a series, (in this case up to about 6518), and it is hard to conceive that anything under 6709 is still around, but they are. Math's tracker shows 6477 and 6488, which is as old as they get.

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11 hours ago, ajay said:

Heres the reason i made this topic

Screenshot_20181026-204342.png

 

5 hours ago, Aiden Tabucic said:

1684 Needs to get body work done.....god damn I never seen a flyer like that it’s telling you that Kedzie Garage don’t look out for it’s flyers 

I think both of you are jumping the gun here. A need for of some cosmetic body work is a heck of a lot different than a bus actually being able to run. And two things to also remember further, if Kedzie didn't take care of its buses, 804 would not still be running many years after the test the 800s and 900s were part of would have thought to have long ended. The second point to remember is if cosmetic body flaws dictated a bus series retirements, then NONE of the 6400s should still be on the road transporting passengers. The remaining 6400s should indeed be gone by CTA's own initial timetables for retirement, but the fact that close to 100 still remain in service makes the impulse for making this thread entirely overblown. Maybe one should have ideas on how CTA secures hundreds of millions of dollars on a faster timetable as needed to get new buses before squawking about retirements based merely on a cosmetic flaw. What do you think you're going to ride if CTA retired buses on such a trivial matter? Heck there are 4300s and 7900s with worse cosmetic damage and those two series are CTA's newest series in the fleet. As stated, the 1000s as a series aren't going anywhere any time soon. And if we're going to worry about retirements, let's come up with better reasons than what amounts to little more than a scratch at a rear back corner of one bus out of the whole freaking series. Sheesh

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2 hours ago, jajuan said:

 

I think both of you are jumping the gun here. A need for of some cosmetic body work is a heck of a lot different than a bus actually being able to run. And two things to also remember further, if Kedzie didn't take care of its buses, 804 would not still be running many years after the test the 800s and 900s were part of would have thought to have long ended. The second point to remember is if cosmetic body flaws dictated a bus series retirements, then NONE of the 6400s should still be on the road transporting passengers. The remaining 6400s should indeed be gone by CTA's own initial timetables for retirement, but the fact that close to 100 still remain in service makes the impulse for making this thread entirely overblown. Maybe one should have ideas on how CTA secures hundreds of millions of dollars on a faster timetable as needed to get new buses before squawking about retirements based merely on a cosmetic flaw. What do you think you're going to ride if CTA retired buses on such a trivial matter? Heck there are 4300s and 7900s with worse cosmetic damage and those two series are CTA's newest series in the fleet. As stated, the 1000s as a series aren't going anywhere any time soon. And if we're going to worry about retirements, let's come up with better reasons than what amounts to little more than a scratch at a rear back corner of one bus out of the whole freaking series. Sheesh

Right the 1000's actually aged pretty well.  Hell I forgot about them being so old until it came up here. New flyer definitely came through on this series no issues with speak noise or acceleration save for a select few that rack up mileage here and there between servicing

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7 hours ago, Aiden Tabucic said:

1684 Needs to get body work done.....god damn I never seen a flyer like that it’s telling you that Kedzie Garage don’t look out for it’s flyers 

If I am not mistaken,  South Shops is responsible for body work.  Buses get dinged and scratched all the time so only in cases where there's  significant damage that it goes to SS.

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10 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

If I am not mistaken,  South Shops is responsible for body work.  Buses get dinged and scratched all the time so only in cases where there's  significant damage that it goes to SS.

And I don't think it was that serious anywho, seeing as 1684 is on the 21 right now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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5 hours ago, jajuan said:

And if we're going to worry about retirements, let's come up with better reasons than what amounts to little more than a scratch at a rear back corner of one bus out of the whole freaking series. Sheesh

 

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

And I don't think it was that serious anywho, seeing as 1684 is on the 21 right now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They're composite panels. As Nova Bus often says, screw one off and screw another on. It has been frequently noted here that it takes major frame damage or a massive tire fire to result in the premature retirement of a bus. 

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On 10/28/2018 at 1:10 PM, jajuan said:

 

I think both of you are jumping the gun here. A need for of some cosmetic body work is a heck of a lot different than a bus actually being able to run. And two things to also remember further, if Kedzie didn't take care of its buses, 804 would not still be running many years after the test the 800s and 900s were part of would have thought to have long ended. The second point to remember is if cosmetic body flaws dictated a bus series retirements, then NONE of the 6400s should still be on the road transporting passengers. The remaining 6400s should indeed be gone by CTA's own initial timetables for retirement, but the fact that close to 100 still remain in service makes the impulse for making this thread entirely overblown. Maybe one should have ideas on how CTA secures hundreds of millions of dollars on a faster timetable as needed to get new buses before squawking about retirements based merely on a cosmetic flaw. What do you think you're going to ride if CTA retired buses on such a trivial matter? Heck there are 4300s and 7900s with worse cosmetic damage and those two series are CTA's newest series in the fleet. As stated, the 1000s as a series aren't going anywhere any time soon. And if we're going to worry about retirements, let's come up with better reasons than what amounts to little more than a scratch at a rear back corner of one bus out of the whole freaking series. Sheesh

Yea. I guess your right. :/

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My question is when it's time to replace the 1000 series, what bus manufacturer will most likely get the contract? Will cta give it to New Flyer once again to replace the flyers with more flyers since the 1's we had before well currently have should I say lol.

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19 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

My question is when it's time to replace the 1000 series, what bus manufacturer will most likely get the contract? Will cta give it to New Flyer once again to replace the flyers with more flyers since the 1's we had before well currently have should I say lol.

As has been brought up in the Pace discussion, and has been the case ever since protests were filed in about 1988 over CTA writing a spec for the  4400s that essentially was for a single source procurement for MANs, it will have to be put out for competitive bidding, and (as in the case of the Proterra contract) will go to the offer in the competitive range offering the most advantageous deal to the CTA. In addition to New Flyer not getting the 7900s contract, it exhibited a rather uncooperative  response to Pace's requests for clarifications, it (and Alexander Dennis) saying "take our bus or leave it," while Nova seemed more cooperative. Despite there being Standard Bus Procurement Guidelines, CTA seems to have pretty freaky specifications, but apparently not as freaky as Pace's last set.

At this time, one can only say what existing manufacturers are qualified at the moment. Surprisingly, ElDorado National California might be, since it got a contract from LA for 295 and up to 600 buses, and it doesn't look like CTA is going to order that large of a quantify in the 5 year capital improvement plan.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

My question is when it's time to replace the 1000 series, what bus manufacturer will most likely get the contract? Will cta give it to New Flyer once again to replace the flyers with more flyers since the 1's we had before well currently have should I say lol.

This was my question too. For some strange reason, I don't see Xcelsior's winning the bid, so Gillig or El Dorado?

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