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3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Incredible they talk of repairing the green and pink lines when those were both completely rehabbed. What about the forest pk branch? Kind of humorous the article says they will service four lines but pink is not one of them!! Lol!! 

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2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Incredible they talk of repairing the green and pink lines when those were both completely rehabbed. What about the forest pk branch? Kind of humorous the article says they will service four lines but pink is not one of them!! Lol!! 

I occasionally ride the South Side Mainline & they're always doing track repairs, usually south of Indiana to Garfield.  My guess would be inferior materials, maybe the ties, from the mid-90s rehab.

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https://www.transitchicago.com/fasttracks/

Has more details. In fairness, the article didn't need to mention the Pink line at all, especially seeing as this segment of track work won't include it and the one that will is tiny (Clinton to Ashland). It's also sobering to see the only section of blue line not planned for track work is Damen to Grand

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3 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Incredible they talk of repairing the green and pink lines when those were both completely rehabbed. What about the forest pk branch? Kind of humorous the article says they will service four lines but pink is not one of them!! Lol!! 

The SSM needs the track work.  Besides these rails being over 20 years old, they had additional wear and tear from additional Red Line service on these tracks.  On the West Side, a new EB slow zone has appeared between California and Western as well as one between  Morgan and Clinton.  The one between Ashland and Morgan has disappeared.

 

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6 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

The Green Line can help provide extra service, at least during rush hour, on the Lake Street line to help connect Blue Line riders to the west side while Congress is being rebuilt.  That's why I said add "Looper" trains.  Keep running regular service on the Green Line but add extra trains that go to the Loop only and back to Harlem.  

 

And what do you mean by "knock down the Pink Line"?

 

5 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

Except that the CTA likely won't do that. More than likely, the CTA will instead terminate more runs at UIC/Halsted and send fewer runs west of that if and when reconstruction of the Ike begins.

In addition, there may be periods of temporary but longer-term closures over large portions of the Forest Park branch during this reconstruction period.

 

3 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

Point proven 

Moved so we aren't off-topic.

 @Mr.NewFlyer1051 I'm confused, what was your "point" that you were trying to prove? @RJL6000 was right, the most likely course of action, if they don't do shorter, section based closures, is everything west of UIC is closed. This is beneficial because A) Pink and Green Lines still exist: Green & Blue share 6 stations and Pink & Blue share 4 (5 if you count the proximity of IMD & Polk). While closed, the point is to maximize service into the loop and the Pink line covers a better area downtown than the Blue. Anywhere you could walk to from a Blue line station in the Loop, you can from a Pink Line station (of which you can also transfer from the green). B) UIC to O'Hare means, at least in the interim, probably more frequent and maybe longer trains. UIC to O'hare is about 50 mins on average, compared to the full line's 72 mins. Less distance to cover = possibly more frequent service. Sending the Blue to 54th (if that section of track would even be open) wouldn't truly be helpful. Anyone along the Cermak Branch who needed the blue line could take it to Clark/Lake & transfer (might actually be faster, if only slightly)

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3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Sending the Blue to 54th (if that section of track would even be open) wouldn't truly be helpful. Anyone along the Cermak Branch who needed the blue line could take it to Clark/Lake & transfer (might actually be faster, if only slightly)

It would be helpful because it's an alternative West Side route passengers can use while Congress is out of service.  Terminating at UIC would leave people stranded.  

Shuttle buses can't handle a long line like Congress either because there are limitations on bus availability and there is too much traffic in this area.  

 

Blue to 54th, while still running Pink as well, and a few Loop Green Line trains on outer Loop should be helpful substitutes as far as getting people in and out of downtown quicker.

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3 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

Someone else said to terminate at UIC and I explained why it's not a good idea.

I meant reduced, not suspended, service west of UIC. The CTA said that it will not send any Blue Line trains to 54th on a regular basis during the reconstruction project due to the very low ridership count on that portion of the line on a per-car basis - the very same reason why it permanently discontinued the service back in 2008.

And speaking of the reconstruction in Oak Park, this (with regards to the rail line) will require the existing stations and trackage to be permanently closed, and that temporary facilities be used for the duration of the reconstruction project while the replacement permanent facilities are being constructed.

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:18 AM, artthouwill said:

The SSM needs the track work.  Besides these rails being over 20 years old, they had additional wear and tear from additional Red Line service on these tracks.  On the West Side, a new EB slow zone has appeared between California and Western as well as one between  Morgan and Clinton.  The one between Ashland and Morgan has disappeared.

 

The rails on the North Side Mainline from Lawrence to Howard were replaced about 40 years ago, during a full rebuild, roadbed, ties & rail & there's far more use there than the SSM.

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4 hours ago, strictures said:

The rails on the North Side Mainline from Lawrence to Howard were replaced about 40 years ago, during a full rebuild, roadbed, ties & rail & there's far more use there than the SSM.

Yep that’s why they are starting brand new in the fall 

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5 hours ago, RJL6000 said:

I meant reduced, not suspended, service west of UIC. The CTA said that it will not send any Blue Line trains to 54th on a regular basis during the reconstruction project due to the very low ridership count on that portion of the line on a per-car basis - the very same reason why it permanently discontinued the service back in 2008.

1st of all, when did CTA say they will never send a Blue Line train to 54th for reconstruction?

2nd, yes it had low ridership because people used Pink since it was more frequent.  Blue Line trains ran 30 minute intervals, from what I heard, to / from 54th/Cermak.  This is why it was phased out.

The reason of lower ridership in 2008 does not apply with rerouting during a 5 to 6 month reconstruction because people will have to use it.  It's an ALTERNATE route.  

Why did CTA reroute all Red Line trains to Ashland/63rd?  It is an ALTERNATE route.  You cannot terminate trains at UIC every 2 minutes.  1st of all it will leave people stranded.  2nd, bus shuttles cannot handle this many passengers for 6 months.

Terminating Blue Line trains at UIC-Halsted is like terminating Red Line trains at Roosevelt.  There just has to be a route that runs parallel to the affected line that can get people at least a lot closer to where they need to go.

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when you actually look at the CTA rail system, shutting down the Congress part of the blue line won’t  hurt anybody. Do people not realize how close the lake st elevated is to Congress? It’s literally a matter of just a few blocks. I have friends on the west side who already live next to the Congress blue line and live next to a blue line station at that who avoid the blue line at all cost and will walk over to the lake street elevated to catch the green line downtown. Also I rode the pink line to 54th/ cermak recently and the pink line along cermak and the pink is also fairly close in proximity to the blue line. The distance between lake st elevated and Congress is the same distance from state and lake to Congress when it’s downtown which isn’t a long walk. In my opinion I’m surprised CTA hasn’t thought to axe the congress blue line completely and the green and pink lines be the west side L routes. With a bus service to go through forest park from the Harlem and lake green line. There’s been a history of bus routes getting axed to utilize other bus routes or train lines that run in proximity in general. Just a thought. 

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1 hour ago, Manny018 said:

when you actually look at the CTA rail system, shutting down the Congress part of the blue line won’t  hurt anybody. Do people not realize how close the lake st elevated is to Congress? It’s literally a matter of just a few blocks. I have friends on the west side who already live next to the Congress blue line and live next to a blue line station at that who avoid the blue line at all cost and will walk over to the lake street elevated to catch the green line downtown. Also I rode the pink line to 54th/ cermak recently and the pink line along cermak and the pink is also fairly close in proximity to the blue line. The distance between lake st elevated and Congress is the same distance from state and lake to Congress when it’s downtown which isn’t a long walk. In my opinion I’m surprised CTA hasn’t thought to axe the congress blue line completely and the green and pink lines be the west side L routes. With a bus service to go through forest park from the Harlem and lake green line. There’s been a history of bus routes getting axed to utilize other bus routes or train lines that run in proximity in general. Just a thought. 

You'd be hurting a lot of people actually.

  • You could make that same argument about the Red & Green Lines, but they're both still in service next to each other. I actually prefer taking the 3 or 4 to 63rd, although that's more about my concerns for safety at 79th Red Line.
  • Cutting out the Congress Branch will put undue stress on the Pink & Green lines. Together, all three lines only share about 4 stations from Racine Ave west and less than that if you just pair them (Green/Pink, Pink/Blue, Blue/Green). Capacity issues at the Loop means that running more Pink Lines trains isn't always going to be a viable solution, and same for the Green Line (who's route is longer and doesn't short-turn trains). 
  • Lake to Congress is not a short walk, and I'd be upset if I had to walk that distance everyday to the train, I'd actually take the bus. Not everyone wants a 15 minute walk to the train or bus.
  • Bus routes have been axed in favor of train lines (I remember the 16 Lake? that my mother told me about), but that's not always the case, or the 7 & 24 would've been gone a while ago.
  • Lastly, airport access is just as important, as well as night shift jobs. Ideally, the Orange Line would be 24hrs too (basically is at this point), but with the Red & Blue 24hrs, you have a train running in each direction of the city except southwest.
  • The Blue Line is also centrally located between the three, has the best hours and the farthest route. 54th/Cermak might be able to handle all the buses from Forest Park, but Harlem/Lake certainly can't
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Personally, I think the best solution would be as follows:

  • Blue line gets rerouted via Pink Line, and Pink Line is temporarily discontinued (though RJL6000 said CTA doesn't want to do this)
  • Extra Green Line trains terminate in the Loop, and Green Line gets more 8-car trains
  • Buses that currently terminate at Forest Park are rerouted to various Green Line Stations (Harlem, Oak Park, Ridgeland)
  • Route 7 gets weekend service

This way, the Loop wouldn't get overcrowded. Discontinuing the Pink Line will free up some capacity for Loop-terminating Green Line trains. Also, instead of rerouting all Forest Park buses to Harlem/Lake, the buses are spread out a bit more.

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20 minutes ago, Anthony Devera said:

Personally, I think the best solution would be as follows:

  • Blue line gets rerouted via Pink Line, and Pink Line is temporarily discontinued (though RJL6000 said CTA doesn't want to do this)
  • Extra Green Line trains terminate in the Loop, and Green Line gets more 8-car trains
  • Buses that currently terminate at Forest Park are rerouted to various Green Line Stations (Harlem, Oak Park, Ridgeland)
  • Route 7 gets weekend service

This way, the Loop wouldn't get overcrowded. Discontinuing the Pink Line will free up some capacity for Loop-terminating Green Line trains. Also, instead of rerouting all Forest Park buses to Harlem/Lake, the buses are spread out a bit more.

There are already people along Lake Street stations Ashland, Morgan, and Clinton who use the Pink Line.  I wouldn't temporarily remove Pink Line service but maybe reduce intervals a little bit.  

To reduce traffic, Green Line trains that are short turning in the Loop can run on the outer Loop track.  This is how CTA did it in 2013 when Red Line trains ran to Ashland/63rd.  

Pace routes do not need to be changed because 307 and 318 already connect Green Line trains to Blue Line trains in Forest Park.

305 & 316 service can be increased, however, because 305 serves Forest Park and Cicero stations via Roosevelt and runs parallel to the affected line.  316 connects Cicero Blue Line to 54th/Cermak Pink Line via Laramie.  More buses on those 2 routes can help. 

Knowing Pace, I know 314 might also get extra service if these changes are implemented cause 305, 316, & 314 are all 1 route.  At least at the same time Green & Blue Lines at Ridgeland can be supported by 314 somehow in the suburb of Oak Park. 

Ridgeland is in the middle of the two auxilary exits for the Austin and Oak Park stations on the Blue Line.  East Ave and Lombard Ave auxiliary entrances are within the same distance of Ridgeland.  

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3 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

This is how Loop Green Line trains would run.

20180922_195337.jpg

Woah now, this is something I haven't seen. This is from the rerouting of the red in the last 2 years? If so, I wonder why this wasn't seen more

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3 hours ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

Pace routes do not need to be changed because 307 and 318 already connect Green Line trains to Blue Line trains in Forest Park.

305 & 316 service can be increased, however, because 305 serves Forest Park and Cicero stations via Roosevelt and runs parallel to the affected line.  316 connects Cicero Blue Line to 54th/Cermak Pink Line via Laramie.  More buses on those 2 routes can help. 

Knowing Pace, I know 314 might also get extra service if these changes are implemented cause 305, 316, & 314 are all 1 route.  At least at the same time Green & Blue Lines at Ridgeland can be supported by 314 somehow in the suburb of Oak Park. 

Why would the 305 & 316 continue to end at Cicero though? I can maybe see an argument for 305, but wouldn't it be more prudent to temporarily extend the 57 to 54th/Cermak along the 316 route?

Additionally, I would also predict

  • 320 to Austin (Green)
  • 308 & 327 to Harlem/Lake
  • 301 temporarily takes 305 routing, moved to 54th/Cermak
  • 303, 310 & 317 to 54th/Cermak

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Why would the 305 & 316 continue to end at Cicero though? I can maybe see an argument for 305, but wouldn't it be more prudent to temporarily extend the 57 to 54th/Cermak along the 316 route?

Additionally, I would also predict

  • 320 to Austin (Green)
  • 308 & 327 to Harlem/Lake
  • 301 temporarily takes 305 routing, moved to 54th/Cermak
  • 303, 310 & 317 to 54th/Cermak

305 & 316 are pretty much 1 route.  When 305 terminates at Cicero Blue Line, it turns into a 316 and heads to Morton College.  After that, it turns into a 314.  

Same thing with 316 NB, it turns into a 305 at Cicero.  All passengers can stay on the buses.  

I don't think Pace would ever extend 303, 310, and 317 to 54th/Cermak.  That would require more buses and wouldn't get ridership.  I would know because I'm pretty familiarized with the ridership patterns around Cicero and Berwyn.

It makes more sense if extra trips are added to already existing routes 305 & 316.

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1 hour ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

305 & 316 are pretty much 1 route.  When 305 terminates at Cicero Blue Line, it turns into a 316 and heads to Morton College.  After that, it turns into a 314.  

Same thing with 316 NB, it turns into a 305 at Cicero.  All passengers can stay on the buses.  

I don't think Pace would ever extend 303, 310, and 317 to 54th/Cermak.  That would require more buses and wouldn't get ridership.  I would know because I'm pretty familiarized with the ridership patterns around Cicero and Berwyn.

It makes more sense if extra trips are added to already existing routes 305 & 316.

Not permanently, for the shut-down if that wasn't clear. Why would the 305 & 316 continue to end at Cicero if there is no train service? Especially for the 305, seeing as both its ends would be a closed station?

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1 hour ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

I don't think Pace would ever extend 303, 310, and 317 to 54th/Cermak.  That would require more buses and wouldn't get ridership.  I would know because I'm pretty familiarized with the ridership patterns around Cicero and Berwyn.

 

Then Pace would have to find a new east terminal for those three routes. The Forest Park station terminal would be closed for the duration of the reconstruction project, and Forest Park and River Forest now effectively prohibits buses from operating on the stretch of Madison Street between the CN freight tracks and Desplaines Avenue due to the center island leaving insufficient room for anything wider than a sedan (the reason why Pace had permanently rerouted the three routes at their eastern end to operate on Van Buren Street instead of Madison Street and Desplaines Avenue a few years ago). This last reason automatically eliminates any possibility of extending any of those three routes to the Harlem Avenue Green Line station, to the point that the only feasible relocation would be to temporarily suspend service on Madison Street altogether east of First Avenue (IL Route 171). At that point the only feasible location to terminate these three routes during reconstruction would be Loyola Hospital (unless something else changes) - but that would cut off all transfers from bus to rail on all three of those routes (although they would still connect to several other Pace bus routes). And Pace does not want to operate the three bus routes on Lake Street east of First Avenue because that would then duplicate service that's already provided by the 309 and 313.

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31 minutes ago, RJL6000 said:

Then Pace would have to find a new east terminal for those three routes. The Forest Park station terminal would be closed for the duration of the reconstruction project, and Forest Park and River Forest now effectively prohibits buses from operating on the stretch of Madison Street between the CN freight tracks and Desplaines Avenue due to the center island leaving insufficient room for anything wider than a sedan (the reason why Pace had permanently rerouted the three routes at their eastern end to operate on Van Buren Street instead of Madison Street and Desplaines Avenue a few years ago). This last reason automatically eliminates any possibility of extending any of those three routes to the Harlem Avenue Green Line station, to the point that the only feasible relocation would be to temporarily suspend service on Madison Street altogether east of First Avenue (IL Route 171). At that point the only feasible location to terminate these three routes during reconstruction would be Loyola Hospital (unless something else changes) - but that would cut off all transfers from bus to rail on all three of those routes (although they would still connect to several other Pace bus routes). And Pace does not want to operate the three bus routes on Lake Street east of First Avenue because that would then duplicate service that's already provided by the 309 and 313.

The overlap is justified by making the connection to rail. If anything they can do like 71 and N5 for the red line and just run those buses express to the green line

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1 hour ago, RJL6000 said:

Then Pace would have to find a new east terminal for those three routes. The Forest Park station terminal would be closed for the duration of the reconstruction project, and Forest Park and River Forest now effectively prohibits buses from operating on the stretch of Madison Street between the CN freight tracks and Desplaines Avenue due to the center island leaving insufficient room for anything wider than a sedan (the reason why Pace had permanently rerouted the three routes at their eastern end to operate on Van Buren Street instead of Madison Street and Desplaines Avenue a few years ago). This last reason automatically eliminates any possibility of extending any of those three routes to the Harlem Avenue Green Line station, to the point that the only feasible relocation would be to temporarily suspend service on Madison Street altogether east of First Avenue (IL Route 171). At that point the only feasible location to terminate these three routes during reconstruction would be Loyola Hospital (unless something else changes) - but that would cut off all transfers from bus to rail on all three of those routes (although they would still connect to several other Pace bus routes). And Pace does not want to operate the three bus routes on Lake Street east of First Avenue because that would then duplicate service that's already provided by the 309 and 313.

Damn, I had no idea about the restrictions in Forest Park.  I do think, though, that passengers can at least go to their alternate service Pace routes to Forest Park and Cicero stations.  

But I don't see how restrictions AND a Congress shut down affects Pace besides the line being shut down.  Pace handles service effectively at the terminal now.  Passengers can wait for alternative Pace service at Forest Park.  It's still a major transit hub besides the line being shut down.

 

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Not permanently, for the shut-down if that wasn't clear. Why would the 305 & 316 continue to end at Cicero if there is no train service? Especially for the 305, seeing as both its ends would be a closed station?

Where else would you terminate 305 & 316?  Passengers can catch alternate routes 305, 316, and 57 buses at that same place to go to either Pink or Green Lines.

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22 minutes ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

Where else would you terminate 305 & 316?  Passengers can catch alternate routes 305, 316, and 57 buses at that same place to go to either Pink or Green Lines.

Ahh. I was attempting to avoid a transfer, that's why I would've had the 57 go to the Pink temporarily.

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