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Busjack

South/Southwest/Heritage Divisions - Changes & Restructuring

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On 11/28/2016 at 11:17 PM, Busjack said:

Two imponderables: If the warehouse isn't open yet, why they started the route now, and if nobody is riding the bus, why they are using a 30 foot bus instead of a community vehicle (and running the risk of messing up 507). Only thing that seems to make sense is that 512 isn't 511 because it uses a bus.

Perhaps because the warehouse could be slated to open before the next schedule change? That's the only thing I can think of.

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9 minutes ago, ctrabs74 said:

Perhaps because the warehouse could be slated to open before the next schedule change? That's the only thing I can think of.

It wasn't supposed to open "until spring 2017", but maybe there is a perceived need for the bus so the employees can attend training, or for construction workers to get there. The service change I mentioned above probably indicates the next pick takes effect January 23, still before the warehouse is supposed to open.

One thing that was mentioned at the board meeting was that Mars agreed to build the turnaround on its property and subsidize 512 as part of the requirements for LEED certification.

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3 hours ago, Pace831 said:

One thing that was mentioned at the board meeting was that Mars agreed to build the turnaround on its property and subsidize 512 as part of the requirements for LEED certification.

Which probably means that the only reason it is running is because Mars is paying for it.

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Passenger notice: 504 Z trips will be discontinued. I was usually alone on the bus the few times I rode them so this change was expected. I figured they were taking time to evaluate the route when what should have been a two week detour lasted for months.

Now I wonder what Pace will do when the new IKEA warehouse opens in about a year. It is just to the east of the Amazon warehouse but not quite close enough to the existing 361/504 bus stop. IKEA is seeking LEED certification as Mars did which resulted in 512. Perhaps there will be a new route "513" and/or extension of 504. Maybe 361 could go there as well. It all depends when the shift change times will be.

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On 5/27/2017 at 4:33 PM, Pace831 said:

Passenger notice: 504 Z trips will be discontinued. I was usually alone on the bus the few times I rode them so this change was expected. I figured they were taking time to evaluate the route when what should have been a two week detour lasted for months.

Now I wonder what Pace will do when the new IKEA warehouse opens in about a year. It is just to the east of the Amazon warehouse but not quite close enough to the existing 361/504 bus stop. IKEA is seeking LEED certification as Mars did which resulted in 512. Perhaps there will be a new route "513" and/or extension of 504. Maybe 361 could go there as well. It all depends when the shift change times will be.

I work a 2nd Job at Amazon MDW4 at Joliet, I was always wonder what they were building next to it on Laraway just East of Amazon Fulfillment Center.  

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51 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

So these buses will still serve the bus stop by the Sears entrance, they just won't terminate there?  Basically the same as Yorktown Mall?  

"To Improve The Traffic Flow Of Orland Square Mall".  No, these mall operators don't want any of their buses on their property standing because they tear up the pavement.  Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg has been that way for many years, to which I assume the reason for the NW Transportation Center being built, which has been there as long as I've been in Chicago (at least 17 years) if not longer.  

If these mall operators had their way, none of the buses would enter malls at all.  But that isn't feasible without a public outcry (like Yorktown was) due to the walking distance to most of these malls.  I'll say it again, I still don't understand why the bus operators can't turn off the buses when they terminate at public places such as malls, like Seattle did.  Especially if you're going to be there longer than 15 minutes.  Or Pace needs to work with some of these villages and build some sort of turnaround area near the mall.  This is nothing more than the same concept as Downers Grove at Branding/Finley.  Golf Mills Mall could be next, Westfield owns that mall too, last I remember.

I guess none of these malls are big enough to go underground like Mall of America ;)

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1 hour ago, rotjohns said:

So these buses will still serve the bus stop by the Sears entrance, they just won't terminate there?  Basically the same as Yorktown Mall?  

"To Improve The Traffic Flow Of Orland Square Mall".  No, these mall operators don't want any of their buses on their property standing because they tear up the pavement.  Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg has been that way for many years, to which I assume the reason for the NW Transportation Center being built, which has been there as long as I've been in Chicago (at least 17 years) if not longer.  

If these mall operators had their way, none of the buses would enter malls at all.  But that isn't feasible without a public outcry (like Yorktown was) due to the walking distance to most of these malls.  I'll say it again, I still don't understand why the bus operators can't turn off the buses when they terminate at public places such as malls, like Seattle did.  Especially if you're going to be there longer than 15 minutes.  Or Pace needs to work with some of these villages and build some sort of turnaround area near the mall.  This is nothing more than the same concept as Downers Grove at Branding/Finley.  Golf Mills Mall could be next, Westfield owns that mall too, last I remember.

I guess none of these malls are big enough to go underground like Mall of America ;)

Having spent a lot of time waiting for buses at Orland Square, I also agree the reason probably isn't "traffic flow". A few years ago they actually built a concrete bus pad which is long enough for two buses. However the actual bus stop is ahead of the concrete, and often buses will lay over behind it.

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2 hours ago, rotjohns said:

Golf Mills Mall could be next, Westfield owns that mall too, last I remember

No,  they never did (You must have confused it with Old Orchard). It was owned by Cuneo interests, but was sold. The Pulse materials said that Pace would have to negotiate  with the new owners to build a Pulse station there. You can bet that Pace would not do so based on revocable permission.

What might be comparable is that Pace used the driveway between Milwaukee Ave. and Penny's as a layover. 

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10 hours ago, Busjack said:

No,  they never did (You must have confused it with Old Orchard). It was owned by Cuneo interests, but was sold. The Pulse materials said that Pace would have to negotiate  with the new owners to build a Pulse station there. You can bet that Pace would not do so based on revocable permission.

What might be comparable is that Pace used the driveway between Milwaukee Ave. and Penny's as a layover. 

Hmmm, I hadn't been up there in a while and I remembered that Westfield owned Old Orchard, thought they owned Golf Mill too.  I do remember the buses that the buses were right by the JCPenney entrance, don't know if that's still the case.  

 

11 hours ago, Pace831 said:

Having spent a lot of time waiting for buses at Orland Square, I also agree the reason probably isn't "traffic flow". A few years ago they actually built a concrete bus pad which is long enough for two buses. However the actual bus stop is ahead of the concrete, and often buses will lay over behind it.

That is to prevent passengers getting on the bus while the bus drivers went inside the mall for bathroom breaks and eating.  I gotta believe that the mall operators complained in some sort of fashion.  

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5 hours ago, rotjohns said:

That is to prevent passengers getting on the bus while the bus drivers went inside the mall for bathroom breaks and eating.  I gotta believe that the mall operators complained in some sort of fashion.  

So how does the concrete pavement make it harder for passengers to board the bus? If the mall operators complained about the bus pad, it was probably because of drivers not using it.

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15 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

So how does the concrete pavement make it harder for passengers to board the bus? If the mall operators complained about the bus pad, it was probably because of drivers not using it.

And that's the thing, if the bus operators are not using it, then that's on Pace for letting them get away with it.  I don't see any logical reason to terminate the end routes for these buses away from the mall other than the fact there some sort of issue with the pavement and it's costing them money.  Now, publicly, the real reason isn't given.  But more malls are starting to stop these buses from staying in the malls for extended periods of time for various reasons.  As far as the concrete payment making it harder for passengers to board when the buses are idle, nothing to do with the pavement.  I think the drivers sit in a certain spot, let everyone off, and lock the doors when they leave for fear of passengers getting on without paying among other reasons.  Not saying that's truth, just my two cents.

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4 hours ago, rotjohns said:

And that's the thing, if the bus operators are not using it, then that's on Pace for letting them get away with it.  I don't see any logical reason to terminate the end routes for these buses away from the mall other than the fact there some sort of issue with the pavement and it's costing them money.  Now, publicly, the real reason isn't given.  But more malls are starting to stop these buses from staying in the malls for extended periods of time for various reasons.  As far as the concrete payment making it harder for passengers to board when the buses are idle, nothing to do with the pavement.  I think the drivers sit in a certain spot, let everyone off, and lock the doors when they leave for fear of passengers getting on without paying among other reasons.  Not saying that's truth, just my two cents.

OK, I see what you were saying. You are correct that the buses drop off passengers farther back, then pull up to the stop when ready for boarding. I would guess they are supposed to use the concrete pad for waiting, but they don't always. Sometimes there are already two buses on the pad but other times they stop too far forward or back. I guess they are just not paying attention to the pavement surface.

The extra time spent going to the new terminal really reduces layover time, which might hurt OTP. I used to ride 832 a lot and it was almost always late in the afternoons, so I bet this will make that problem a lot worse.

It seems unnecessary that 364 has to double back, serving the mall twice. They could have made it like 322 which lays over at Oakbrook Center since the Yorktown incident. 364 could lay over westbound at Herion/Wheeler, then go to the mall and immediately head back east.

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The main thing at Yorktown was tearing up the asphalt parking lot and using it as a staging area. The concrete pad only accommodates one bus picking up or discharging passengers at a time (no different than that the sidewalk adjacent to the Glenbrook Hospital bus stop can accommodate only one bus). In both of these cases, the layover point is somewhere else. I think both of you missed the point.

Contrariwise, Ford City found some benefit in building a CTA terminal on its property, but again for some unknown reason, doesn't allow Pace to use it, except for a couple of 382s.

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40 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The main thing at Yorktown was tearing up the asphalt parking lot and using it as a staging area. The concrete pad only accommodates one bus picking up or discharging passengers at a time (no different than that the sidewalk adjacent to the Glenbrook Hospital bus stop can accommodate only one bus). In both of these cases, the layover point is somewhere else. I think both of you missed the point.

Contrariwise, Ford City found some benefit in building a CTA terminal on its property, but again for some unknown reason, doesn't allow Pace to use it, except for a couple of 382s.

The buses are currently laying over on the asphalt, but we don't know if that is the only reason behind Orland Square's decision. The concrete pad at Orland Square is not at the bus stop (which is asphalt), it is in what is supposed to be the layover area, except some drivers do not park completely on the pad.

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5 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The buses are currently laying over on the asphalt, but we don't know if that is the only reason behind Orland Square's decision. The concrete pad at Orland Square is not at the bus stop (which is asphalt), it is in what is supposed to be the layover area, except some drivers do not park completely on the pad.

Thanks for clarifying, although in my mind that's kind of strange.

Sounds a bit like Northbrook Court moving the bus stop so it didn't block Arhaus. However,IIRC, the only bus that lays over at Northbrook Court is the 422 that arrives at about 9:20 p.m. and leaves at 10. IIRC, it sits in the parking lot, not at the bus stop, but if Northbrook Court wants the late bus for its employees (justification was that and UPS), I guess that's how it goes. Otherwise, the bus would wait on the street near the Metra station (which is the official terminal of the 3 a.m. bus).

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12 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Thanks for clarifying, although in my mind that's kind of strange.

I thought it was strange when they built it. Pace issued a passenger notice about construction at Orland Square because of it. Then they made the pad about two buses long, when there are often three buses there at one time. The passenger notice made it sound like it would be a bigger deal than it was, as if the entire aisle would be concrete.

In order of front to back, there is the bus stop, mall entrance, concrete pad, Sears entrance, then some asphalt. Before the pad was built, many of the drivers would park far from the bus stop, behind the Sears entrance. The concrete is too far forward from where drivers seem to prefer parking, so the construction didn't seem to change their habits.

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22 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The extra time spent going to the new terminal really reduces layover time, which might hurt OTP. I used to ride 832 a lot and it was almost always late in the afternoons, so I bet this will make that problem a lot worse.

For example, 832 is half an hour late today:

IMG_0222.thumb.PNG.10131454d593195295cd9164d8f87fd9.PNG

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Tomorrow is the change at Orland Square.

Here are some pictures of the concrete bus pad. Usually buses do not lay over ahead of where the bus is in the pictures. There is also a crosswalk between the two bus "positions" that I had forgotten about.

IMG_0225.thumb.JPG.2a5aa61cbcca91a4aff387da6792bebb.JPG

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IMG_0227.thumb.JPG.6adac1b361c295d3d1c376a930354777.JPG

This is the new Herion/Wheeler "terminal". The street has very little traffic which makes it a good location for bus layovers. Traffic could become a problem if the lot to the east is developed, though. You have to watch out for goose poop on the sidewalks because of the retention pond across the street. Probably not many riders would stay on past Orland Square, but the route extension does provide closer access to some stores without having to transfer to 364. I also noticed they replaced the bus stop signs along 94th Avenue, but left one of the old ones where the new one had been placed on the opposite side of a driveway.

IMG_0228.thumb.JPG.9a56dd99f3f74fe32599fd66bbd3a6cd.JPG

IMG_0233.thumb.JPG.9569266040e0d03a2860727cf8746af9.JPG

IMG_0232.thumb.JPG.f02d71f435ad7d323657c92e4c970033.JPG

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3 hours ago, Pace831 said:

Here are some pictures of the concrete bus pad. Usually buses do not lay over ahead of where the bus is in the pictures.

It looks (especially from picture 3) that the original intent was to have the bus stop in front of the mall door, but someone decided that the mall didn't want buses blocking it.

Sort of like Northbrook Court moving the bus stop away from the theater so as not to block Arhaus.

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