East New York

If this were true then that may be the issue. However, by law, you cannot call an RTS an RTS unless it is built with the techniques and structure as it has been for the last 35 years. That would be false advertisement in case you didn't know. It's nowhere near a new platform. It's a 35 year proven structure, which has already been Altoona tested. Unlike ALL other low floors in existence today, the RTS is the ONLY bus that that is built the exact same way as the high floor, and on the same platform. The only major difference is the dropped front floor, and sidewall reinforcements, and an all new front axle. It's 100% RTS! Don't believe me? Ask Altoona. Not to mention the guys who run the new MTS (in charge of building buses, engineering, and contracts) are the same ones who built RTS buses with either GMC, TMC, Nova, or all three. Not to mention they are the exact same guys who bid the RTS-08 which was created by and for Chicago. (Yes the final design of the bus was Chicago's doing for the most part.) There was no such bus when TMC was awarded the contract. After the contract was awarded, the first ever RTS-08 was then designed and created. The bus had not been engineered or designed in any capacity prior to the Chicago bid. So what do we have now? Almost the exact same scenario we had in 1989. Only exception this time is that 2 low floors have already been built, and have racked up 12,000 miles of testing, and it has a modified front section. Mind you TMC/MCI had just begun to build the RTS when this contract was awarded, which was just after GM saved the division from bankruptcy by selling it to Greyhound subsidiary MCI. Fact of the day. Nova designed and certified the first RTS T-Drive with 2.5 foot modules. When MTS took over, the Legend was ready to go immediately as it's configuration was already tested. Nova also designed and built the first 42.5 foot RTS low floor. Prevost/Nova have a flawless record for building strong buses. That's why they created the RTS low floor as a one off from the high floor WFD model. MTS just took over all rights, improved off Nova's T-Drive design and built a few new buses. And if anyone actually read the RFP, you would know that it also states that if a manufacturer does not have the current model they offer in service, to provide drawings and details of a similar product. #Done Fact #2. CTA is ONLY accepting individual proposals for both the 40 and 60 footers. This means that Nova and New Flyer cannot combine both bus models into one proposal. They have to submit 2 each, and contracts can be awarded to up to 3 different manufacturers.

Once again, I'm not going to argue about this. I do however know for a fact that they are both bidding, so instead of asking me questions to which I do not know the answers, just wait until the black and white comes out and see for yourselves. It won't be long now....

Correct.

I have no idea of how they will comply, but they are definitely bidding, along with New Flyer, Nova, and just confirmed in stone, Millennium. NABI is out of the question, and all the bidders are listed just above. There will only be 4 of them, and CTA could award contracts to 3 of the 4 bidders.

The livery will stay the same as it will on the 600 new buses out for tender right now.

For one, I never said It was a guarantee MTS was bidding. How many times do I have to type that same phrase?????? Don't quote me on that MTS statement. New developments tell a different story. So as of right now, MTS may still be in there, and I cannot confirm either way. BYD is an established (New in the North American Market) manufacturer of standard low floor buses. I have a few photos from APTA that I will try to find and post. Until then, here is a shot taken by a friend of mine. However, I was not aware of the fact BYD still produced diesel buses, and I didn't think they had 60 foot buses. So it is hard to know what exactly they bid until the documents become public after the bid opening date, which is now set for October 16th. (Date subject to change) http://www.byd.com/

Update: BYD has submitted a bit to CTA, and MTS is persuing CTA outside of the current procurement for a test fleet very similar to New York City's.

Even though I love the bus, I isn't built for the midwest or east coast in my opinion. Yeah, it may be the most fuel efficient option, but that is because the bus is so light in weight because its not a stainless structure, the floor is composite, and there is a lot of plastic. Quite a few agencies have been having electrical issues, and a few other build quality issues. The bus has major potential as long as a few key issues are addressed. Between 2015 & 2017 we will be able to see how well the buses are doing as the first of them will be reaching the 6 year mark.

Lmao! You are funny! I'm sorry, but typing as fast as I do on an Android device, mistakes happen. Didn't know this was English class. If I didn't care what anyone said, I would have never started the thread...... Duh! Clearly posting on a transit forum does nothing for my resume which is already extensive. I don't have an issue with what anyone has said. I always welcome a healthy debate. You just like to be an ass! This definitely isn't the first time we have crossed paths either, so none of this is new when it comes to you! Stop acting brand new. You will counter whatever I say, even when you know yourself it's a fact. Interesting that when I counter something you say, all you do is change the subject. It's ok to be,wrong buddy. We are only human! Can't we all just get along? Lol Now as far as anyone else here, I would be glad to continue this discussion. As for you Mr. Busjack, Next Bus Please!

As far as Busjack goes, I'm not even going to entertain your questions at all. And for the record, I don't work for MTS. I own my own consulting firm, and my reach extends to every manufaturer except Gillig and ElDorado. Instead of interrogating me, why don't you call MTS or CTA and ask them all these questions. They both have working phones and general email. And if Millennium wanted to sneak in, Im quite sure I wouldnt know anything about any of this. Besides, why waste money on a lobbiest when your product will speak for itself? CTA is aware of the fact that MTA will be receiving some low floors, and there are about 2180 buses on the pre-production log. So again, whatever happens happens. I had to go through these same shinnanigans when I made a post on my forum about New Flyer in a similar situation after NYC filed a law suit againt them. When I posed NYC was working on a deal for 90 XD40's, 90 XD60's, and up to 475 C40LF's, everyone said I was crazy, and the biggest issue was there would be no way MTA would take delivery of 2012-2013 C40LF's because they were discontinued, and second, MTA had a lawsuit againt them in 2006. That was all true, however, the NFI guys told be that because of the huge CTA cancellation, they had parts for the LF, and would offer,that bus because the MTA was not interested in the LFR. That being said. We shall see! And just do everyone knows, Im not,the type to say I told you so at all. But when it comes to anything regarding buses in North America, what I post end up being right 99.9% of the time. From 2007-2012, im batting 1000. I could be wrong, as I am not perfect. But if,you wanna keep asking these technical questions, call the people directly involved. Good day! FYI, the white bus with yellow stripe on the MTS brochure, is the actual low floor that NYC tested themselves. Now, in the near future, I am hoping to land a job with Millennium now that I will no longer consult with Daimler. Daimler doesnt do a good job of listening..... Yet, I'm still helping them out with a few "loose ends." One of their contracts was just transfered to New Flyer for additional C40LF's. It was best they do that instead of dealing with MTA well into next year.

No, and from what I understand their proposal won't be complete until the end of next month.

From what I have seen, read, and heard they are great! Im not sure if NFI has released the specs yet, so I wont say anything. As a major fan, and daily rider of their buses, I can say I can't wait to take trip to Chicago when you get them. The fact that they are Xcelsiors makes it all the better.

Correct. I never said that either..... I agree with,you 100% and stated that myself. That was worse lift Lift-U ever made, and these doors were the worst Vapor ever produced to date. Hoewver, these two facts are now irrelivant as well because Lift-U and Vapor products are 10 times better, and a high floor bus isnt even part of this discussion, so a lift on an old bus doesnt really matter when compared to a new ramp. Nova and New Flyer make excellent buses. Ive driven them, inspected them, and maintained them myself. My only point is the RTS is up to the competition. Again, high floor buses are not even the topic of discussion. I dont know why it keeps coming up. Thank you!! As far as the MTS website, yeah I agree about that video.... Its about 5 years old. I think the website was overhauled just prior to APTA. MTS however updates their facebook regularly.

As for the comments about the astetics of the bus, its an all new face. As for the low floor history, there are 2 buses. The first was a 42.5 footer built by Nova in 2003, and the second is a 40 footer built by MTS in 2005. That bus recently returned from Altoona, and NYC tested it out for a week prior as well. Again, no prospective bidder has to bid on both the 40 & 60 foot requirements, so none of that really matters. What the hell are you talking about? I dont know any particulars about that NABI contract, nor have I ever said I did. Secondly, anyone can find out the information I posted. It's not G-14 Classified buddy! Third point, Nova and NF are going to be the only other bidders..... That info came straight from Nova and NF as well, so I guess there is a huge leak. Somebody better hurry and patch that thing. And as far as the NJT thing goes, they told me something totally different. But it is what it is. Im not going to argue about this with you. Especially since I'm almost certain I know who you are. Lol

You dont have to be nasty about all this my man. Im just stating the facts. And FYI, MTS has no problem getting a Performance bond. Nothing imaginary about anything I said. Im a Transit Systems Engineer & Consultant. This is what I do, and I absolutely love what I do. No need to grandstand or make false claims like im some RTS-Happy foamer. I get regular briefs on the operations of all the bus manufactures, suppliers, and major transit agencies. I have also consulted with most of them. And once again, MTS did not screw up the NJT order. If that was the case, they wouldnt want 150 high floor express buses right now. Remember when the CTA NFI order was deferred because of a lack of funds? Same thing at NJT, and all the buses were sold to other agencies. NJT even admitted they,wish,they could have taken delivery of all the buses. They have been evaluating them at the other agencies since they were deferred, and now realize that they should have never ended up going with NABI when the financials got in order. If you are going to come for me, please come correct. Im only here to share info, which is not an obligation. I just know most of you all are interested,in,the same things I am, otherwise you wouldnt be here. Good day sir!

According to CTA, they WANT MTS to bid on the contract, so they are the ones that let it be known actually. Thats how this all came to be. But what is there to test? An RTS is an RTS. Just in a low floor version. MTA tested out the low floor for a week and they loved it. Times, and things do change. MTA said they would never purchase another RTS in life when they canceled the Nova hybrid order. Now they will be accepting 90 new high floors, and 90 new low floors. Now that Orion is gone, Nova and New Flyer are the only qualified builders for many agencies that include MTA. This doesnt sit well with may agencies, and they are looking at MTS as a formidable competitor. Again, MTS did not default on the NJT contract, it was canceled because of funding issues, and now MTS is working on a brand new deal for NJT. MTS just exited bankruptcy this year, and is now resuming production. There is no relation between NABI and MTS either. NABI produced an unreliable bus, whereas MTS has produced the best RTS buses to date. Let's just say that I am invested in the success of Millennium, and the warranty on all their buses blows everything else anyone has to offer right out of the water. Because MTS is essentially the same old company with a new name, the bus is techinically qualified according to CTA. And the reason Flxible got the subseqquent orders is because they were the low bidder. Nothing more, and nothing less. CTA is the one who informed MTS how they will be evaluated, and yes there are still a few people at the Authority that were there during the original contract. Its not really about what any of us think, its about what CTA said themselves. MTS has 16 core customers lined up, and evaluations open on 149 more. Their lead customer which is ordering 2000 buses recently visited the CTA as a reference for the RTS-08. They said after the teething problems, and excluding the door issues, the buses performed really well, and they are definitely open to getting new buses from MTS. Now remember, most all this information is coming directly from CTA, and 98% of it I got straight from the horses mouth. As I said, this is going to be very interesting!

Most definitely. There will be about 5 different engineering demos that will circle North America within the next 3 years if all goes as planned. http://millenniumtransit.com/

No, I have a copy of the RFP. It's not mandatory that that any of the bidders submit proposals for both bus lengths. CTA is aware that MTS will not have a 60 foot version anytime before 2016. I'm really not sure if they would consider the high floor. Maybe if they were for an express type service like the ones we will get here in NYC. Personally, I couldn't see CTA ordering any high floor buses for regular transit service though.

I Ctually love the way that rear step is cut. It adds a little more space back there. The are my favorite buses in the MTA fleet next to the RTS. Millennium Transit is set to announce an all electric RTS Extreme in the very near future.

The MTA contract is only pending completion of the shaker table test at this time. Once that is complete, MTA will then purchase the test buses. The first bus will be a MTA spec demo/pilot. After initial acceptance testing is complete, the bus will then become #1 of the order. MTA will begin revenue testing an XD60 next week. This bus is a demo as well, but if it passes the initial tests it will become the pilot. The NJT contract was canceled because of funding issues. MTS is actually working on a deal with NJT for new buses, and is able to still use them as a reference. All those NJT buses that were built went to other operators, and to date have out-performed any other 6 year old midlife RTS manufactured to date. Word on the street is that because the new Team Millennium is made up of ex GM, TMC, and Nova RTS guys CTA is willing to accept their bid as they are techinically by workforce the same people who bid the RTS 08. The guy who handles contracts at MTS is the same one who worked with CTA on the 08. On top of that fact that the buses they built for NJT ate the best RTS's ever made according to maintenance recors, and all the agencies who purchased them. The low floor is nothing more than a low floor version of the proven RTS modular platform with a new face. The RTS 08 was created for CTA, who actually had major input on the overal final design. This is going to be very interesting! Let me remind everyone that this contract could go to all bidders, only one bidder, or two bidders. Xcelsiors reall arent that expensive. I got ahold of most all their contract prices, and they are basically on par with the LFR's, and the last of the LF's which are currently being delivered to New York by the dozens. The 40 footer passed Altoona in 2008, but had lots of teething problems. They are just now being looked at by the big guys. The artics just began customer production this year. The first of the models was the XN60 which debuted at APTA this past October.

Hopefully another company will be interested in qualifying with CTA. Now that Orion is out of the business, the entire playing field has shifted.

I was trying to locate the topic, but have been unable to do so. I was quite sure this had been discussed, but I wasn't sure where the thread actually was. Thanks. We have a ton of new buses from all manufactures here except Gillig and NABI. Millennium Transit Services is also entering NYC's new bus program with 2 new RTS models. 90 one door suburban high floors, and a 90 local transit low floors. Both buses are 42.5 footers. http://www.millenniumtransit.com/ http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/29817-the-millennium-rts-discussion/

Wow! I had no idea this fiasco was still going on.....

Good day all! My name is Dante, and I am a Transit Systems Engineer based in NYC. I have been following this forum for a couple years here and there, so I finally decided to join. One of the reasons is because my new position will have me traveling all over the country a lot, and I have learned a lot about CTA. Glad to be here, and hope to be a helpful part of some discussions. Question #1 I know a little about the upcoming procurement as I have the RFP, but from your prospective, who all do you think has a chance at this contract, and who would you like to see it awarded to?

Yes, they well be New Flyer XE40 "Xcelsior" models.