Break From Pace...is it Possible ?

[trainman8119]

Under the current framework of how the RTA has the 6 county transit system set up,

if a community wishes to operate service can they do it ???

If Niles, for example, was unhappy with Pace addressing their needs (for example

purchasing buses for them without regard to size and housing restrictions) could they

choose to operate the service on their own without the Pace montra. After all, they

are pretty much paying for the operation anyway, why do they have to cater to what

Pace wants. Is this strictly a $$ issue, principally added funds from the RTA. Is there

a State law that requires Pace to operate the suburban municipality services ???

Just curious. Obviously there is a reason. B)

[Busjack]

Downers Grove is supposedly independent. They have their own buses (apparently now broken down), charge their own fares, etc. However, when Pace thought that it would help their recovery ratio, they gave Downers Grove a small subsidy in return for getting Downers Grove's revenue on Pace's books. (Do I hear someone saying accounting fraud?)

In Niles case, the deal supposedly is that Niles pays the fares. However, the reality probably is that Pace subsidizes Niles, so that the "free bus" costs Niles only 40% of what it otherwise would. Highland Park also has to make up the difference between the fares it collects and the recovery ratio assigned to it, but, again, I presume that Pace is covering 60% of the cost. The Pace Budget always has a page for "Public/Municipal Contracted Service." The budget says that the Schaumburg Trolley is 100% funded by Schaumburg (so it doesn't appear that they have an incentive to do it through Pace, other than Pace supplying the trolleys).

There are probably federal planning rules governing how equipment is purchased. I don't know if that affects whether a village could obtain a direct grant for equipment. For instance, Pace just announced that it had obtained a federal grant for paratransit vehicles to be used in community services, to be given to the villages as part of the Municipal Vanpool Program. I don't know if the villages could have received them directly.

The more interesting question is how Pace forced Joliet to turn over its municipal system. I wasn't around at the time. Similarly, Pace forced Nortran to turn over its bus operation, and the only thing I read about that was that Nortran couldn't resist, because, by then Pace owned most of the equipment (except for the 400 series).

[trainman8119]

The more interesting question is how Pace forced Joliet to turn over its municipal system. I wasn't around at the time.

I can't speak for Joliet, but I can relate this about Northwest. As I understand it, NORTRAN was against Pace taking over their operation and fought it for a couple of years. Unfortunately for them, about 60% of their fleet at the time was given to them by Pace (I believe that was about the time of the Grumman's). Pace gave them an ultimatum...we take you over, or we take back the buses. Without the buses, there was no way NORTRAN could operate service and survive. They didn't have the money to buy buses on their own. After about 2 years, NORTRAN finally caved in and became what is now Pace Northwest (and for that matter Pace North Shore). The ironic thing of this, is that many of the Pace Deputies at HQ were once employed by NORTRAN (Melinda Metzger probably being the highest ranking these days).

It would not surprise me if Pace used strongarm tactics like this to get control of Joliet.

Niles, Melrose Park (at least they did at one time) and Schaumburg all operate(d) the same type

of free system. The implication was always that these communities paid the freight with Pace

giving them the subsidy (ie. the equipment) and that is why it was free. Funny how times change.

[Busjack]

On a somewhat related note, I noted an item in the Northbrook village newsleter that the village board:

Approved

--Requesting support from Congressman Kirk and Senators Durbin and Obama to seek funding for replacement of the Highland Park Bus Fleet with environmentally friendly hybrid buses.

Did I miss something, but besides whether this is Northbrook's business (other than the 473 bus that stops in Northbrook Court), wasn't Highland Park's bus fleet replaced about a month ago (with 2600s). Man, aren't the politicians murking up the waters. I remember reading somewhere that Downers Grove wanted Pace approval of a CMAQ grant for CNG buses, but at least Downers Grove is independent and has its own vehicles to replace.

Update: I received a call from whomever it is at Village Hall that responds to comments to the Village. He sort of indicated that the buses at issue were two other than the seven 2600s HP just received. He had other comments, which I thought were irrelevant, such as this wouldn't cost Northbrook anything, aren't you in favor of green hybrid power, etc. Apparently this was an effort by Highland Park to get Northbrook to lend some support, which Northbrook thought it could satisfy at no cost. I said with Northbrook and the RTA each raising the sales tax by .25%, getting the total rate to near 10%, I didn't care what unit of government was wasting money, but I didn't want to hear that Pace is crying for the .25% increase because it needs operating funds to preserve its capital budget, and then waste its capital on buses Highland Park immediately wants to replace. However, we'll have to see whether we were talking about the same buses.

I also personally think that it is somewhat unseemly for Highland Park to be seeking allies to beg for federal funds, but I suppose that the wealthy are as entitled to federal capital money as anyone else.

[Busjack]

I saw on the Pace procurement page an active bid solicitation for "The Purchase of up to Eight (8) Twenty-eight Passenger Buses." Wondering what it was (since there are options for more 2600s), I figured out how to download the solicitation without giving identifying information, and it turns out that it is eight cutaway vehicles for Downers Grove to be paid for with a CMAQ grant. This indicates that grant applications have to go through Pace, and that the only alternative vehicle to the 30 foot transit is a paratransit bus (there not being anything similar to a Chance RT52 or Orion II). Considering the mostly elderly population that uses the Niles Free Bus, I don't think they would want to climb the steps into a cutaway vehicle. However, a paratransit vehicle is apparently ok for Downers Grove commuters (and $175,000 cheaper than a real bus).

[trainman8119]

Wondering what it was (since there are options for more 2600s), I figured out how to download the solicitation without giving identifying information, and it turns out that it is eight cutaway vehicles for Downers Grove to be paid for with a CMAQ grant.

What kind of buses are these. Are they similar in size to Chances or Optimas...or are they similar to something like an extended Paratransit bus with 25 seats or something ???? Would something like this make more sense in Niles over the 2600's ???

[Busjack]

What kind of buses are these. Are they similar in size to Chances or Optimas...or are they similar to something like an extended Paratransit bus with 25 seats or something ???? Would something like this make more sense in Niles over the 2600's ???

Cutaway means a pickup truck with the back portion cut away, which is what is now used as a paratransit vehicle. So we are talking about an extended paratransit vehicle with a truck cab.

Like I previously said, I don't think it would make sense for Niles, given the number of elderly persons mass boarding at Golf Mill, who would have to use the narrow stairs (unless they all congregated on the lift for multiple lifts).