Milwaukee North Trains Why 3 Rear Cars Closed?

[Guest metralink]

Why does metra close the rear 3 cars outbound or is that the first 3 inbound during midday and weekends?

This makes no sense as people have to run past 3 closed coaches to find an open door especially boarding at Union Station.

[Busjack]

I suppose that it is a combination of not breaking the consists and minimizing the risk of injury in a collision. As the RI accidents show, the cars don't have much crush resistance, and so the empties offer a crumple zone. You aren't going to pay for conductors for empty cars.

Maybe trainman can answer the following: Why do Milw trains run with 3 cab cars (maybe one is an 8200, but there are often 2 8500s), while UPs run with only one?

[trainman8119]

Why does metra close the rear 3 cars outbound or is that the first 3 inbound during midday and weekends?

This makes no sense as people have to run past 3 closed coaches to find an open door especially boarding at Union Station.

The answer is simple....ADA. On the Milwaukee lines, the ADA car is placed as the

3rd car from the engine on trains that are 7 cars or less, and 4th car from the engine on

trains that are 8 or 9 cars.

During the off peak times crews try to use 2-3 cars so that collecting tickets can be handled easier and also spot platforms, of which many on the North line are only 3-5 cars long. The ADA car always has to be spotted on the platform, hopefully near the ADA sign. Therefore, if 2 cars are needed, the 2nd and 3rd would used...if you go to 3 you would use 2, 3 and 4. The head car is generally not used, even though it is an easy spot for the engineer, because fumes from the engine have a tendancy to back up into the coach. On the reverse trip downtown, that same 3rd car from the engine has to be used to accomodate the ADA, and basically the same formula is used.

[trainman8119]

Maybe trainman can answer the following: Why do Milw trains run with 3 cab cars (maybe one is an 8200, but there are often 2 8500s), while UPs run with only one?

The 8200's have been retired as cab cars and are considered "gallery" coaches. The cab doors

have been sealed and the guts have been taken out. Some of the longer trains have 2 working

cab cars because the consists are broken up and shorter trains are used. If you see a 7, 8 or 9 car train out there, you will probably see an 8500 4 or 6 cars from the engine. That long train will become a short train for part of the day during the week, or cut in the yard for some trips on the weekends. You will find that there are many UP, BN, RI trains with cab cars in the middle for the same reason. Ocassionally, there is just a car shortage and one will be tossed in the consist for a couple of days, maybe a week to fill in. Since they are ADA cars, they can be put in the consist in the 3rd or 4th spot to cover out of service ADA cars too.

[Busjack]

I've seen like 6 car trains with 3 cab cars, and the southmost two cars were 8500s. (The train with 8503 is one of those). It seems like most of the 7200s are only on the long rush hour trains to Fox Lake; other trains have 1 or 2.

[trainman8119]

I've seen like 6 car trains with 3 cab cars, and the southmost two cars were 8500s. (The train with 8503 is one of those). It seems like most of the 7200s are only on the long rush hour trains to Fox Lake; other trains have 1 or 2.

The 2 working cabs at the south end would indicate that it is in position as a protector.

When you see 2 engines on a train, it is not because the train needs extra power. One engine can handle any passenger load put out there. But there is usually one consist that will have a second engine on it. That engine is a 'protector' and is kept on a train in case an engine of another train goes bad at an outlying yard. If it does, the protector is moved from the train it is on an put on top of the bad engine and no train is missed. It is the same with the cab cars. If one goes bad (after all, it is similar to an engine when it comes to Federal Regulations) you can move one off another train and put it on top of it. By having 2 on the south end, you can take one off easily and put it on top of another without too much hassle. The is no room or maintenence at outlying yards to keep something extra off on the side, so the extra stuff is piggybacked on to existing equipment and incorporated to the consists.

[Guest metralink]

The 8200's have been retired as cab cars and are considered "gallery" coaches. The cab doors

have been sealed and the guts have been taken out. Some of the longer trains have 2 working

cab cars because the consists are broken up and shorter trains are used. If you see a 7, 8 or 9 car train out there, you will probably see an 8500 4 or 6 cars from the engine. That long train will become a short train for part of the day during the week, or cut in the yard for some trips on the weekends. You will find that there are many UP, BN, RI trains with cab cars in the middle for the same reason. Ocassionally, there is just a car shortage and one will be tossed in the consist for a couple of days, maybe a week to fill in. Since they are ADA cars, they can be put in the consist in the 3rd or 4th spot to cover out of service ADA cars too.

It still doesn't make sense. I took Mil Northline last weekend and the 1st 3 cars inbound are closed, the 3rd car is the bar car. While I understand they dont want folks in this car on weekends as there is no outside access, then run another consist that doesn't have the bar car.

My point is its a pain for the passengers to walk or run past 3 closed cars especially on weekends with kids, American girl bags and Navy Pier junk in hand.

Not all trainsets operate with bar cars, run a darn consist without those cars on it.

[trainman8119]

It still doesn't make sense. I took Mil Northline last weekend and the 1st 3 cars inbound are closed, the 3rd car is the bar car. While I understand they dont want folks in this car on weekends as there is no outside access, then run another consist that doesn't have the bar car.

My point is its a pain for the passengers to walk or run past 3 closed cars especially on weekends with kids, American girl bags and Navy Pier junk in hand.

Not all trainsets operate with bar cars, run a darn consist without those cars on it.

On Saturdays, the North Line runs with 7 car consists. All 7 and 8 car consists on the North Line have bar cars as part of the consist. No switching is done to move stuff around. There is one 6 car set that is used. On Sundays, 5 car trains run, unless there is a large event, such as the Taste, which is coming up. You will find that the 3 head cars will be closed until there is a need to open them. By keeping open cars to a minimum, it allows those boarding later to have seats, and also keeps some of the seat hogs from taking 4 seats. Usually, we will run 3 cars on the branch between Fox Lake and Libertyville, open another car at Lake Forest and them if needed Northbrook, Glenview, whatever. With the short platforms at Mayfair, Grayland, and Healy, only 3 cars will be on the platform at those stations. Golf and Forest Glen are limited to 5 cars. Bar car or not, you will only have that amount of cars opening at those stations. The biggest problem with the bar cars are that with the doors not opening, it creates delays as everyone makes a dash for another car. Also, as you open additional cars, when you get to the bar car, you have to open 2, which creates added delays and/or confusion for those in the head cars as they make the dash back to the block of 3 or 5 cars around the ADA car that will be on the platform (ADA car must be one of doors that open at all stops) and have doors that open.

Bar car problems will become moot shortly, as the bar cars are slated to be history by this time next year on all lines.

Word of advice...if unsure where to stand on a platform (ie. will doors open or not), hover around the ADA boarding sign...you can't ever lose, and can always walk through the cars to find seats. Inbound trains will tend to be more full in the back, since those cars will be operational first. Outbound trains often are evenly balanced, however, at an outlying station, hang towards the front of the train, as people tend to board the first open door downtown, as well as those late laggers who run for the train as the doors close.