Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[MVTArider]

I saw an 1100 coming the other way on 16 when I was on 331 going to St. Paul downtown. 331 was standing room only so I'll bet the 1100 was packed as well. Definitely a good route for 3200's or 3100's

Gray utilitarian looking buses on the BE Line before huh? I'll bet ridership went up once they started using the 30ft Gilligs instead. especially if those gray buses were like the older MVTA minibuses that reek of diesel exhaust. Actually though the newer minibuses are pretty nice in my opinion. I got on a phantom on 64 after riding on a 1100, I thought it was funny because the driver and a passenger were talking and the passenger was saying whats up with those new funny looking buses? The driver said they are bringing them in for replacement and then he described having to drive one the day before. His words were something to the effect of, "Those new buses have fewer seats and a narrower aisle and whenever someone pulls the cord, it talks! I don't know, I think these (referring to the Phantom) will do just fine. I hope they don't get too many more of those."

Personally, I think the new stop request boards are cool though, and the buses are sure a lot cleaner and brighter inside. I'm not a big fan of those seats but they'll work. I would like a better voice for "stop requested" that lady's one was starting to get to me towards the end of the line I couldn't tell if the windows have anti scratching film or not. I hope they do though since I have seen some scratching and "sharpieti" on some of the Phantoms. I think they got the fancier stop requested signs so in the future they can add automated stop info. like in Chicago. I know we are having a trial done on next bus info. or something.

[MVTArider]

Got the Sun Current for SSP/IGH. It had this article in it about Robert Street Corridor and focusing on short term improvements. Also has the phrase I like to see most in mentions of R.S.C., east-west

By the way, although not a Metro Transit bus here is a photo tour of a Rochester City Lines Gillig low floor being built. It takes a minute to download but its pretty detailed.

[MetroLINK9013]

Look what i found online not my pics but they look great!!

James Roach

MetroLINK 9013

[MVTArider]

Thanks for posting those MetroLink. I don't know if that one is from a more current delivery than a few weeks ago or if they all came in at once.

I saw 1129 on the 16 today, they really need to swap them for artics on that route. It looked like it was full and almost ready to start turning away riders!

I rode 7122 on the 18D as well today, it was pretty nice

Also saw 542 on 542B :lol:

[Tcmetro]

Nice pics Metrolink, it looks as the new Hybrids are coming in. I'll bet they will be on the 10, 11, 17, and 18 mostly.

I was riding the 50 the other day, and it was packed. Same with the 2 16's we passed up. I only saw 2 3200's, but a lot of Phantoms and 1100's. They might need artics on the 64 too. That bus was packed...

The 54 was one of the best bus rides i've had in a long time. I got a NF D60LF #3058. Excellent acceleration, and a good driver. We only stopped 6 times from the X to the MOA, and the driver was crusing down W 7th at 35-40 mph. The New Flyer LF's ride better than the Phantoms! Now I wish we got New Flyer's instead of Gilligs.

[MVTArider]

Rode 54 again today, had about the same experience you had Tcmetro. D60LF's are a good fit for that route Also I was in downtown St. Paul this morning and saw a D60HF on 3A, and I saw 3234 starting its run on the 16, I wonder if someone from MT has been reading this thread...

[Tcmetro]

I saw a lot of Phantoms on the 16/50 during the afternoon rush hour yesterday. Most of East Metro's artics go to routes like 260, 261, 265, 270, 272, 353, 355, 361, 365, 375, and 452. During non-rush hour more artics need to be run though. The 64 might need them, it seems more people ride that route now.

I have been tracking which buses have been repainted into the new scheme (so far it has only been the 700's and 800's): 737, 825, 828, 831, 833, 854, and 858.

[Tcmetro]

http://www.metrocouncil.org/news/2008/news_610.htm

ST. PAUL—June 23, 2008—The Metropolitan Council will hold public hearings next month on a proposed increase in transit fares that, if fully implemented, would go into effect in two phases, with a modest initial increase on Oct. 1 and a second increase in 2009.

The proposal calls for a 25-cent increase beginning Oct. 1 on all regular-route service, and a 50-cent increase on Metro Mobility service for people with disabilities. In addition, the morning rush-hour, and rush-hour fares, would be extended by one-half hour and start at 5:30 a.m. instead of 6 a.m.

If approved, new cash fares would be $1.75, $2.25 or $3 depending on the type of service and time of day. New Metro Mobility fares would be $4 during weekday rush hours and $3 at other times.

A second fare increase in 2009, at a date to be determined, could add up to an additional 50 cents to the cost of a bus, train or Metro Mobility ride, depending on the cost of fuel and other economic factors.

The proposal was recommended Monday by the Council’s Transportation Committee. If approved by the full Council on Wednesday, it will be the subject of a series of eight public hearings and meetings in July before final Council action.

A fare increase is needed primarily to help offset rising fuel costs and lower-than-expected revenues from the Motor Vehicle Sales Tax (MVST), which helps pay for transit, and reduce a projected $15 million shortfall in the state fiscal year that begins July 1, as well as an expected funding gap in the next biennium.

The proposed increase would be implemented by all service providers, including Metro Transit, the region’s largest provider of transit service, Metro Mobility, suburban transit providers, and dial-a-ride and other contacted service.

“The rising cost of fuel affects transit in a couple of ways,†said Council Chair Peter Bell. “It increases the cost of doing business. And it increases ridership, which is good for transit, but also increases our operating costs. We need to be able to respond in the shorter term as well as have the flexibility to adjust fares again next year in the event our costs continue to escalate.â€

[MVTArider]

25 cent increase in fare is not a big deal for me. Its still a lot cheaper than paying for gas Besides I have a big jar of coins to use anyways As long as they leave the transfer system alone I'm happy.

[Tcmetro]

Yeah, but they are saying up to 50 cents increase next year. $2.25, $2.75, $3.50 !!! yikes.

[MVTArider]

yeah I guess you're right. Its starting to look like TTC fares Although if gas is at $6.499 a gallon it still would be cheaper. Maybe the legislature will be able to provide some funding, but enough daydreaming. Time to ride the bus at $1.50 while we can Its amazing that DTA base fare is still only 60 cents off peak.

[Tcmetro]

^^ Yeah it is great that there is more people riding buses, but there should be improvements if they want to charge more. Sundays are horrible in Saint Paul. 30 minute service WTF?!?!? I rode the 64 on Sunday and it was packed. More trips on the 63, 64, 54, etc would help. As well as straighting the routes. The 64 to Maplewood sucks. It takes forever because it runs through North Saint Paul instead of being direct. The 16 is packed, so they should run the 50 on weekends. More crosstowns, more frequent service, more riders!!! simple as that!!!

[/end rant]

[MVTArider]

Preach it man! Shoot, I would pay $2.50 a trip now if I could get to more places quicker and more directly without having to go by way of the North Pole. MT needs to MegaBus to Chicago. They have this really cool thing there called a transit grid. So like say you need to go 15 blocks to say, your job, but you don't really feel like riding three hours to get there. Well most likely there's like this magical bus route that will take you there in probably 5 to 15 minutes. Oh, and if you just missed the bus when you come up to the stop you don't have to wait until 2009 for the next one.

I do not want to start a political discussion here so nobody respond to this part, but I'm hoping whoever is the next president of the U.S. and whoever is the next governor of MN will be more emphatic about transportation alternatives.

[MVTArider]

According to todays edition of Dakota County Tribune a BRT vehicle is coming and will be on display July 15 and 16, location unknown. (possibly AVTS)

I'm guessing the New Flyer one again but who knows, maybe a CompoBus. Whatever it is it will be neat to see something different. From what I know MVTA has still not picked who will build the BRT vehicles yet.

By the way, 4340 should be back in service eventually.

EDIT: Here is the link to article it wasn't working before.

[exitzero]

Preach it man! Shoot, I would pay $2.50 a trip now if I could get to more places quicker and more directly without having to go by way of the North Pole. MT needs to MegaBus to Chicago. They have this really cool thing there called a transit grid. So like say you need to go 15 blocks to say, your job, but you don't really feel like riding three hours to get there. Well most likely there's like this magical bus route that will take you there in probably 5 to 15 minutes. Oh, and if you just missed the bus when you come up to the stop you don't have to wait until 2009 for the next one.

{End sarcastic rant}

Hey man...I remember when I lived in Hopkins when I was younger..you think service is bad now, in the early 90s the MTC ran 6 - yes, six - buses out that way on Sundays: Four 12Ds to Glen Lake and two 12As to downtown Hopkins. Basically the entire West suburbs were screwed for service on Sundays. Now with the 9, 12, 17 and 675 running on Sundays you can actually sorta get around Hopkins and Minnetonka without a car. Of course, you gotta go downtown to do it, but still.

What I wish they'd do is get back to getting rid of branch letters. It was confusing back then, and it's still confusing now.

[MVTArider]

What I wish they'd do is get back to getting rid of branch letters. It was confusing back then, and it's still confusing now.

So do I... I learned the hard way when I first started riding that 84D does not go to 46th st. LRT. What's real fun though is when the routes split in the middle and join at the ends. Example: 64 going from St. Paul carries the letters D and N on alternating trips (maybe a few more letters I can't remember right now) leaving Maplewood Mall however there are just two buses sitting there that both say 64 You have to read the sign to see which one takes the longer route back to downtown. I guess some branch letters are okay but I am not a fan of them. Of course without letters there would probably be route #'s into the 1000's.

What I wish they could have would be more limited stop versions of some routes, for example: [84 ROSEDALE/SNELLING AVE.] and add [L84 LMTD. STOP/ ROSEDALE/ VIA SNELLING] or [18 DOWNTOWN] and add [L18 DOWNTOWN/ LMTD. STOP] etc.

At least they no longer have duplicate bus route numbers and thank goodness they got rid of 77A/B/C/D/E/H/P/T/W before we really got saturated with multitasking riders who don't quite pay attention.

[exitzero]

So do I... I learned the hard way when I first started riding that 84D does not go to 46th st. LRT. What's real fun though is when the routes split in the middle and join at the ends. Example: 64 going from St. Paul carries the letters D and N on alternating trips (maybe a few more letters I can't remember right now) leaving Maplewood Mall however there are just two buses sitting there that both say 64 You have to read the sign to see which one takes the longer route back to downtown. I guess some branch letters are okay but I am not a fan of them. Of course without letters there would probably be route #'s into the 1000's.

What I wish they could have would be more limited stop versions of some routes, for example: [84 ROSEDALE/SNELLING AVE.] and add [L84 LMTD. STOP/ ROSEDALE/ VIA SNELLING] or [18 DOWNTOWN] and add [L18 DOWNTOWN/ LMTD. STOP] etc.

At least they no longer have duplicate bus route numbers and thank goodness they got rid of 77A/B/C/D/E/H/P/T/W before we really got saturated with multitasking riders who don't quite pay attention.

Hahaha...you think the 77 was bad, remember the 94 series? 94BCDEFGHJKLMNPRT (for Minneapolis) and 94BCDHJLNS for St. Paul. The 35s were just as bad. And there were branch letters where it just didn't make any sense. They FINALLY gave up the ghost and dropped the A branch letter from the 16 only a few years ago.

I agree with you in that letters should be used to mean something other than "This branch of the line goes to this place." Smart utilization of existing numbers would be allow them to recoup numbers of routes that run on the same streets, e.g. instead of using 21 and 53 for the Lake Street routes, they could use 21 and X21 (or 21X), e.g. 21 LAKE ST / ST PAUL, 21X EXPRESS / LAKE ST / ST PAUL, and so on. For the 16, use 16 for local services, 16L for limited stop service and so on. Alternatively, they could use letters to designate short trips, so you know that any unlettered trip goes the whole route, for example.

Another thing I was never fond of was the fact that they would run a route through downtown as one route. If it enters downtown as one route, it should leave downtown as another...IMO of course. This does allow for conservation of numbers but it can be confusing at times.

The entire system has only 219 routes; with some additional consolidation I'm sure they could get rid of a number of branch letters and still be well under 1000 individual routes. I do have to admit that breaking up the Metro area into sectors and numbering the routes by sector was a great choice...it was just incomplete. And of course, typical to MTC/the Met Council, unless it's a pet project, they always start stuff and never finish it. ;)

[MVTArider]

I didn't know about the 94, that was bad To be honest though I got the 77 one from an old system map. I didn't start riding until 2005 so I guess I was able to avoid some of the craziness. They definitely need to regroup the route #'s and drop branch lettering. What I think the letters probably were intended for in the first place is routes like the 445. Going to the MOA its [445 EAGAN/ MALL OF AMERICA] or [445A EAGAN/BLUE CROSS/ MALL OF AMERICA] from the mall it is [445D EAGAN /DODD & OPPERMAN] or [445A EAGAN/ BLUE CROSS/DODD & OPPERMAN]. just because there is a different letter the only difference is 445A stops at the front door of the Blue Cross campus building. When the route used to branch slightly at the end when off peak buses went to EAGAN YMCA you could walk from one place to the other since it was only about a half mile. A route that still carries a lot of letters is 68A/B/C/D/E/F/J/K going from St. Paul and then 68 and 68M going to St. Paul. In looking at the map though I think they could use the letters for the shorter trips like A/B/C/D/K and then send everything else around the loop for E/J and end at Inver Hills with just plain old 68. That way as you said before, exitzero, the route # without the letter would go the whole route.

By the way, when you were here before did they still have some MAN Americanas running? Thats one reason I wish I could have been riding earlier, it would have been cool to ride one of those.

[Tcmetro]

According to todays edition of Dakota County Tribune a BRT vehicle is coming and will be on display July 15 and 16, location unknown. (possibly AVTS)

I'm guessing the New Flyer one again but who knows, maybe a CompoBus. Whatever it is it will be neat to see something different. From what I know MVTA has still not picked who will build the BRT vehicles yet.

By the way, 4340 should be back in service eventually.

EDIT: Here is the link to article it wasn't working before.

At the BRT Open House yesterday, they mentioned that it would be the vehicle in the picture, which was a NABI 60-BRT. I don't know if it will be an artic, they might show the 42 foot version.

[Tcmetro]

Hahaha...you think the 77 was bad, remember the 94 series? 94BCDEFGHJKLMNPRT (for Minneapolis) and 94BCDHJLNS for St. Paul. The 35s were just as bad. And there were branch letters where it just didn't make any sense. They FINALLY gave up the ghost and dropped the A branch letter from the 16 only a few years ago.

I agree with you in that letters should be used to mean something other than "This branch of the line goes to this place." Smart utilization of existing numbers would be allow them to recoup numbers of routes that run on the same streets, e.g. instead of using 21 and 53 for the Lake Street routes, they could use 21 and X21 (or 21X), e.g. 21 LAKE ST / ST PAUL, 21X EXPRESS / LAKE ST / ST PAUL, and so on. For the 16, use 16 for local services, 16L for limited stop service and so on. Alternatively, they could use letters to designate short trips, so you know that any unlettered trip goes the whole route, for example.

Another thing I was never fond of was the fact that they would run a route through downtown as one route. If it enters downtown as one route, it should leave downtown as another...IMO of course. This does allow for conservation of numbers but it can be confusing at times.

The entire system has only 219 routes; with some additional consolidation I'm sure they could get rid of a number of branch letters and still be well under 1000 individual routes. I do have to admit that breaking up the Metro area into sectors and numbering the routes by sector was a great choice...it was just incomplete. And of course, typical to MTC/the Met Council, unless it's a pet project, they always start stuff and never finish it.

They were even able to make the 80 (Downtown Minneapolis-MOA Express) confusing. Some trips during the AM Rush skipped the Convention Center, some used 2nd Avenue instead of Nicollet, some went near the Air Cargo Terminals, and the 80A ended at the MOA, but they had an 80B that went to the 8100 Building.

[MVTArider]

At the BRT Open House yesterday, they mentioned that it would be the vehicle in the picture, which was a NABI 60-BRT. I don't know if it will be an artic, they might show the 42 foot version.

Nice What would be really cool though would be if they put it on an express route or two as well just to see how it handles. Of course then a driver would need to be trained. I definitely got to go and check out this bus though.

BTW I saw another bus repainted on 68F but I only caught for sure that the last # was 5. (I think that it was 805 though. I was up in a parking lot looking at the roof # as it went by.) Any more new bus deliveries yet that you know of?

[Tcmetro]

I have seen 1132 recently, more BRT's have probably came though.

Here are some more repainted buses that I have seen: 707, 708, 709, and 847. The Nicollet Garage hasn't got any BRT's yet. The only LF's they have are the hybrids from last year that have been running on the 17 and 18. I also saw one of the hybrids on the 21.

[MVTArider]

I have not seen any new BRT's at South Garage either. My guess though is they will receive some since I have noticed when riding by there seems to be a growing group of 1995 phantoms parked towards the rear (as seen from 494). From what I can tell the group of 1999 LF's is assigned there since I see a lot of those leaving MOA signed South Garage.

BTW I could have sworn I saw a 400 something repainted at MOA but I'm not sure. I remember I was surprised they repainted such an old bus. Could have been a newer # though.

[Tcmetro]

I think Heywood is getting BRT's. I saw 1134 and 1139 on the 12C yesterday. I also rode 3057, 3058, and 3059 on the 54, my second, third, and fourth time riding D60LF's on the 54.

On the 444 I noticed the bus shoulders being widened and bus platforms being installed on Hwy. 13 at River Hills Drive, 117th Street, and Cliff Road. I hope that eventually a BRT line could run from Inver Grove Heights to the Burnsville Mall, or at least an improved bus line.

I also saw that one of NWA Gillig BRT's is painted grey and is #858.

The 1999 D60LF's are definetly at South. I saw 3060 on Rt. 535 last week.

I kind of like the look of the D60LF's more than the D60LFR's!

[Guest]

I think Heywood is getting BRT's. I saw 1134 and 1139 on the 12C yesterday. I also rode 3057, 3058, and 3059 on the 54, my second, third, and fourth time riding D60LF's on the 54.

On the 444 I noticed the bus shoulders being widened and bus platforms being installed on Hwy. 13 at River Hills Drive, 117th Street, and Cliff Road. I hope that eventually a BRT line could run from Inver Grove Heights to the Burnsville Mall, or at least an improved bus line.

I also saw that one of NWA Gillig BRT's is painted grey and is #858.

The 1999 D60LF's are definetly at South. I saw 3060 on Rt. 535 last week.

I kind of like the look of the D60LF's more than the D60LFR's!

Are there any more HF New Flyer D60s left?