Fare Card Issues

[jtrosario]

Does the CTA Customer Service office replace expired magnetic fare cards that have expired when they have value ?

Is there anyway they can instead load the value on my Chicagocard ?

(I am a tourist, so don't get there often enough to be prompt with these things)

(above from CTA to PACE transfer ? - CTA Bus) I had two expired half-fare cards for my kids that had expired and brought them into CTA customer service on Lake St. this week (I was transferring from Green to UP-West anyway). They took the cards, made me sign a customer service resolution form, and refunded the $5.95 I had left on those cards.

I had already mentioned that one of my kids was turning 12 and that I wanted it put on one farecard, AND that we are infrequent users of CTA. I was asked whether I wanted the balance put on a Chicago Card or a Reduced Fare Card.

Silly me, I was expecting a choice between Reduced Fare Card or Ventra and didn't think about the benefits of using a Chicago Card for my remaining child. THEN I was handed 7, that's SEVEN 85-cent reduced fare cards. When I mentioned that I wanted one card, I was told this is all they can do as the cards have set initial values and I would have to ADD transfer fare to get a proper transfer. (Should have chosen the Chicago Card option)

So for me, the pain-in-the-rear compliance for kids fares just got a lot worse.

P.S. When I would board with my kids on 146 (and previously 12) at Adler/Shedd/Field Museums, I was the ONLY one properly paying for my kids when boarding, EVERY other suburban/out-of-town family was getting their kids waved through. I see the same thing on PACE routes.

[trigger]

Thanks for posting. I apologize to Amtrak41 for saying it was not possible to get a refund. I guess it never hurts to ask.

As far as kids go, I have tried asking the CTA how exactly kids between 7 and 11 are going to pay a reduced fare with Ventra and the only answer they give me is that Chicago Public Schools will distribute student riding permits. As far as I know, the student riding permits are for high school kids, most of whom are well over age 11. And that doesn't help anybody who doesn't live in Chicago. And student riding permits are only valid on school days during the day.

I notice that none of their releases mentions anything about children's fares. Not their web site, not their press releases, nothing. It's almost like they overlooked the issue of kids' fares when it comes to Ventra.

[Busjack]

Thanks for posting. I apologize to Amtrak41 for saying it was not possible to get a refund. I guess it never hurts to ask....

Probably only because he went down there and only was dealing with student cards and even at that had to make somewhat of a stink.

I'm sure that if some tourist went down to 567 W. Lake and tried this, someone would say "the card expired." Certainly no reason to extend good will to a tourist.

As far as not saying anything about student fares, the only thing they have advertised about anything is that "fares won't increase" (except for the single ride ticket). Other than saying that the RTA will send out contactless cards for seniors, they really haven't explained that either.

[trigger]

As far as not saying anything about student fares, the only thing they have advertised about anything is that "fares won't increase" (except for the single ride ticket). Other than saying that the RTA will send out contactless cards for seniors, they really haven't explained that either.

Student fares are not the same as child fares. They have adequately explained how student fares work.

Child fares are in a unique category: All other reduced fares required a permit of some sort. High school students get a CTA permit at school. Senior citizens must apply for an RTA permit. No permit is required for children aged 7 to 11 and they don't even have to live in the RTA service area.

For senior citizens, the RTA has a list of seniors who have received permits. They can replace them just like they replaced the permits when the seniors ride free ended. There is no comparable list of all children in the world between ages 7 and 11. And, in any case, it would be cost-prohibitive to issue a permit to all of them.

[Busjack]

Student fares are not the same as child fares. They have adequately explained how student fares work.

...

For senior citizens, the RTA has a list of seniors who have received permits....

1. Maybe now a driver can identify a child under 12, or as jtroasario notes, you can buy half fare mag strip cards. However, just by tapping, I don't see how the machine knows the age of someone who boards, unless there would be a distinctive half fare Ventra card.

2. On the senior point, I meant such things as, for instance, if one doesn't want to preload the card because of the dormancy penalty, whether they could tap the RTA card with no value and then tap an open source contactless debit card and get half fare. Obviously, Metra will take the senior card on its face without deducting any fare from it, since it currently doesn't have the capability to do so--either someone shows the conductor a ride free card or shows the half fare senior card to the agent or conductor when buying a paper ticket.

To get back to jtrosario's point, which may be relevant to your first one, the CTA Fare Chart says that TVMs only sell full fare transit cards; Reduced and Student Fare cards are only sold in packs, although value can be added to them. Also, children under 7 accompanied by an adult ride free, according to the Reduced Fare page. But obviously mommy, taking along a 8 year old on the L, isn't going to be able to buy a usable $1.00 fare card at the station, or be able to use her card and have both her $2.25 and the child's $1 fare deducted from it.

[jtrosario]

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To get back to jtrosario's point, which may be relevant to your first one, the CTA Fare Chart says that TVMs only sell full fare transit cards; Reduced and Student Fare cards are only sold in packs, although value can be added to them. Also, children under 7 accompanied by an adult ride free, according to the Reduced Fare page. But obviously mommy, taking along a 8 year old on the L, isn't going to be able to buy a usable $1.00 fare card at the station, or be able to use her card and have both her $2.25 and the child's $1 fare deducted from it.

And this was the same problem I had as daddy(not mommy), with my kids since they turned 7. Back in the days I could "get" a half-fare card from an agent at a CTA rail station. Useless as I live in the suburbs, not exactly near any stations. Lately,I now know that some stations like Western(Pink) will say "travel to headquaters" to get the half-fare card, and others like "Forest Park(Blue) will issue a $0.00 amount card to the parent - 1 per child with them and I had to use separate half-fare cards each time after loading them at the machines separately.

So, in addition to the pain-in-the-butt procedure of tapping my Chicago Card Plus AND the inserting two separate half-fare cards when previous travelling with my 7-11 year old boys, and not being able to say load or check(before boarding) when using buses only, it was difficult to even get the cards - or in my case to use them up before they expire every year.

So far, I don't see a known Ventra solution, although I am willing to take my (now 7) reduced-fare cards back to CTA headquarters and get a special half-fare Ventra for my one remaining 10-11 to use over the next year and a half.

I'm also "hoping" that there could be a way for a bus driver to press a button and deduct only half-fares for a child from any Ventra account. However, that would require customer service intervention at train stations.

I used to also put both my kids in one rotogate and then swipe an adult fare on my per use Chicago Plus Card and then swipe again for me to go though the gate, figuring that two adult fares are close enough to 1 adult and two children.

My overall point is that there is no good method of getting kids 7-11 to pay the correct fare even when you are seriously trying to do the right thing. I also don't see ANY Ventra solution for this - YET.

Remember this when you see 7-11 year old kids getting waived through for free on CTA and Pace buses. Also, where you can now see 7-11 year old getting let through the gates for free at the MANY CTA train stations that are no longer allowed to hand out half-fare cards to parents of children 7-11(as a customer service attendant offered to do for me so they could get a free ride to CTA headquarters - ended up giving me 6 month old $0.00 half fare cards, since we walked to the train station so we could ride the bus from there to go elsewhere, not the train towards Clinton)

(I'm sending a copy of this post to CTA customer service as well)

[jtrosario]

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Probably only because he went down there and only was dealing with student cards and even at that had to make somewhat of a stink.

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I didn't have to make a stink, did NOT have my kids with me, was dressed somewhat professionally, and am only perturbed with getting 7 $0.85 cards in return when I really wanted 1 with $5.95 on it. Also, they were, and still are, orange half-fare cards used for children 7-11 (and others) - not student cards.

[Busjack]

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I didn't have to make a stink, did NOT have my kids with me, was dressed somewhat professionally, and am only perturbed with getting 7 $0.85 cards in return when I really wanted 1 with $5.95 on it. Also, they were, and still are, orange half-fare cards used for children 7-11 (and others) - not student cards.

At the time I didn't figure out all the implications.

But as I pointed out from the fare page, reduced fare cars are only sold in packs of 10, so that's why they gave you that. They didn't seem motivated to recode one.

[jtrosario]

At the time I didn't figure out all the implications.

But as I pointed out from the fare page, reduced fare cars are only sold in packs of 10, so that's why they gave you that. They didn't seem motivated to recode one.

Thanks, they did seem to have 3 left over when they gave me the 7 cards. Also, thanks for the link to the January 2013 fare chart. My first thought after perusing it is: Where did any reference to children's (7-11) fares go???? , so the "Complete" fare chart is NOT "Complete" since reduced fares are mentioned here:

http://www.transitchicago.com/travel_information/fares/reduced.aspx

"Each child pays a reduced fare.

Children under 7 ride free with a fare-paying customer."

AND

"Children, 7 through 11 years of age

Each child pays a Reduced Fare. Tell bus operator or see Customer Assistant or security guard for assistance at train stations.

Note: Children under 7 ride free with a fare-paying customer."

HA!!! because then the bus operator, Customer Assistant, or security guard will then tell you they are not allowed to hand out empty half-fare cards for you to load up (except at select train stations)

and then HERE:

http://www.transitchicago.com/fares/

Reduced fare with cash*

(Accepted on buses only in dollar bills or coins; no transfers available when paying cash.)

Are you eligible for reduced fares?

Single-ride

$1.10

which then links to here:

http://www.transitchicago.com/travel_information/fares/reduced.aspx

which is where we started.

The Where to Buy page here:

http://www.transitchicago.com/travel_information/fares/wheretobuy.aspx

mentions Vending machines, CTA Headquarters, and retail locations of which only CTA Headquarters will sell Reduced Fare cards without further research. Like mentioned, reduced fare cards are sold in ten pack at retails locations - that is IF they carry them. The retail locations near where I live only sell full fare cards and simply do not carry the 10-pack reduced fare cards. "Try contacting CTA" is the typical answer to me asking to purchase reduced fare cards for my kids.

There's also a link to the online store here:

http://faremedia.chicago-card.com/

and when you click on transit cards, you get here:

http://faremedia.chicago-card.com/store/main.aspx?DepartmentId=35

of which THEN you can order a $10.00 reduced fare transit card. Based on what I've read here on chicagobus.org, I would bet that this is not a single card, but rather 10 $1.00 cards. (can anyone verify this?)

This is all part of the maze to navigate to try to buy reduced fare cards which are required for 7-11 year olds as there are no current alternate methods to pay reduced fares for them.

In other cities that have machines like CTAs as I've seen on DC's Metro and St.Loius/southern Illinois machines, you simply press a button for reduced fare and you get a reduced fare ticket for your kid(s). At least our system is so "secure". (Not really, as bus operators and customer assistants routinely let 7-11 year olds on for free)

[jtrosario]

.

And this was the same problem I had as daddy(not mommy), with my kids since they turned 7. Back in the days I could "get" a half-fare card from an agent at a CTA rail station. Useless as I live in the suburbs, not exactly near any stations. Lately,I now know that some stations like Western(Pink) will say "travel to headquaters" to get the half-fare card, and others like "Forest Park(Blue) will issue a $0.00 amount card to the parent - 1 per child with them and I had to use separate half-fare cards each time after loading them at the machines separately.

So, in addition to the pain-in-the-butt procedure of tapping my Chicago Card Plus AND the inserting two separate half-fare cards when previous travelling with my 7-11 year old boys, and not being able to say load or check(before boarding) when using buses only, it was difficult to even get the cards - or in my case to use them up before they expire every year.

So far, I don't see a known Ventra solution, although I am willing to take my (now 7) reduced-fare cards back to CTA headquarters and get a special half-fare Ventra for my one remaining 10-11 to use over the next year and a half.

I'm also "hoping" that there could be a way for a bus driver to press a button and deduct only half-fares for a child from any Ventra account. However, that would require customer service intervention at train stations.

I used to also put both my kids in one rotogate and then swipe an adult fare on my per use Chicago Plus Card and then swipe again for me to go though the gate, figuring that two adult fares are close enough to 1 adult and two children.

My overall point is that there is no good method of getting kids 7-11 to pay the correct fare even when you are seriously trying to do the right thing. I also don't see ANY Ventra solution for this - YET.

Remember this when you see 7-11 year old kids getting waived through for free on CTA and Pace buses. Also, where you can now see 7-11 year old getting let through the gates for free at the MANY CTA train stations that are no longer allowed to hand out half-fare cards to parents of children 7-11(as a customer service attendant offered to do for me so they could get a free ride to CTA headquarters - ended up giving me 6 month old $0.00 half fare cards, since we walked to the train station so we could ride the bus from there to go elsewhere, not the train towards Clinton)

(I'm sending a copy of this post to CTA customer service as well)

Response from CTA dated Aug 15th:

"Thank you for your feedback. Children aged 7-11 have the option of using one of our unlimited ride passes, paying cash (only on bus, not at train stations) or using an Orange reduced fare card and paying on a per-ride basis. You can purchase this card from a Customer Assistant at any CTA rail station. Request an Orange reduced Fare card, and the Customer Assistant will give you a blank card, which you can then add money to at one of the vending machines. With the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay $1.10 per train ride and $1.00 per bus ride, and $.15 for the first transfer within 2 hours. The second transfer within 2 hours is free. Without the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay a $1.10 cash fare on the bus. Cash fares are not taken for rail. As you may know, Ventra will be replacing CTA's current fare media. Ventra will be available to everyone starting September 9th. We recommend contacting Ventra directly at 877-NOW VENTRA (877-669-8368) in regards to reduced fare for children aged 7-11. We appreciate and value your comments. CTA FEEDBACK TEAM"

Contacted Ventra today, the rep was professional and quickly understood the difference between student fares and 7-11 half fares. They mentioned I was the first to call in with this issue and that it would be escalated to bring to resolution.

They also offered a non-CPS student card and mentioned that it is good 24 hours a day. I told them that it didn't apply to me and many others who use transit for family travel (not school travel), or who are tourists visiting Chicago. I'll post again when I get Ventra's answer to this.

[jajuan]

Response from CTA dated Aug 15th:

"Thank you for your feedback. Children aged 7-11 have the option of using one of our unlimited ride passes, paying cash (only on bus, not at train stations) or using an Orange reduced fare card and paying on a per-ride basis. You can purchase this card from a Customer Assistant at any CTA rail station. Request an Orange reduced Fare card, and the Customer Assistant will give you a blank card, which you can then add money to at one of the vending machines. With the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay $1.10 per train ride and $1.00 per bus ride, and $.15 for the first transfer within 2 hours. The second transfer within 2 hours is free. Without the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay a $1.10 cash fare on the bus. Cash fares are not taken for rail. As you may know, Ventra will be replacing CTA's current fare media. Ventra will be available to everyone starting September 9th. We recommend contacting Ventra directly at 877-NOW VENTRA (877-669-8368) in regards to reduced fare for children aged 7-11. We appreciate and value your comments. CTA FEEDBACK TEAM"

Contacted Ventra today, the rep was professional and quickly understood the difference between student fares and 7-11 half fares. They mentioned I was the first to call in with this issue and that it would be escalated to bring to resolution.

They also offered a non-CPS student card and mentioned that it is good 24 hours a day. I told them that it didn't apply to me and many others who use transit for family travel (not school travel), or who are tourists visiting Chicago. I'll post again when I get Ventra's answer to this.

At least you seem to have got the ball rolling on them realizing their flaw in not considering how to handle fares for children whose fare won't be the school student reduced fare.

[jtrosario]

Response from CTA dated Aug 15th:

"Thank you for your feedback. Children aged 7-11 have the option of using one of our unlimited ride passes, paying cash (only on bus, not at train stations) or using an Orange reduced fare card and paying on a per-ride basis. You can purchase this card from a Customer Assistant at any CTA rail station. Request an Orange reduced Fare card, and the Customer Assistant will give you a blank card, which you can then add money to at one of the vending machines. With the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay $1.10 per train ride and $1.00 per bus ride, and $.15 for the first transfer within 2 hours. The second transfer within 2 hours is free. Without the card, the 7-11 year olds will pay a $1.10 cash fare on the bus. Cash fares are not taken for rail. As you may know, Ventra will be replacing CTA's current fare media. Ventra will be available to everyone starting September 9th. We recommend contacting Ventra directly at 877-NOW VENTRA (877-669-8368) in regards to reduced fare for children aged 7-11. We appreciate and value your comments. CTA FEEDBACK TEAM"

Contacted Ventra today, the rep was professional and quickly understood the difference between student fares and 7-11 half fares. They mentioned I was the first to call in with this issue and that it would be escalated to bring to resolution.

They also offered a non-CPS student card and mentioned that it is good 24 hours a day. I told them that it didn't apply to me and many others who use transit for family travel (not school travel), or who are tourists visiting Chicago. I'll post again when I get Ventra's answer to this.

Ventra's answer:

The bus operator or customer assistant(at train stations) will push a button to override the adult fare and charge the half-fare for my child on my card. Also, that everyone is already trained and know how to do this. (So why didn't CTA customer service just tell me that to begin with ? - what a waste of Ventra's resources to tell me what CTA customer service should have)

My take on Ventra's answer:

1st of all, I would hope the above works. 2nd, I've had a Chicago Plus card with the pay-per-use option for years now and when travelling with a friend, have continually had to tell bus drivers to "press a button" to register the first adult fare before I wave the card again for the second fare.

If they don't do the above and it beeps for two waves without registering separate fares, and I later transfer from the bus to rail - the transfer doesn't work for the second person and WILL NOT be availble for a second fare for something like an hour. So then have to buy a magnetic card - figure out exact change for it - is there a 2nd transfer we were planning - hassle, hassle, hassle. And this has happened more than once - even when I insist. Occasionally multiple fares on one card will work when the right button is pressed by the bus operator correctly.

So in a couple of weeks, I travel in using my new pay-per-use Ventra Card for me, my wife, my now 12 yr old(adult fare), and my 10 year old(half fare).

I'm thinking of setting up 4 separate Ventra cards just to be able to handle this situation - even though I SHOULD be able to use my soon-to-be-arriving pay-per-use Ventra card for all 4 fares and not carry and keep track of 4 balances, I wonder if the human element of this solution will work.