Blue Line Question - Infill Station on the O'Hare Branch

[EdwardL803]

Speaking from a structural standpoint, would it be possible to construct an infill station on the Blue line at Nagle Avenue?

I live on the far northwest side of the city. I've always wondered why there's no station in between the Jefferson Park and Harlem stops. Based on this tweet, that gap seems to be around 2.7 miles. That seems to be a very large interval without a station.

https://twitter.com/chi_urbanist/status/1431441249295380483

This made me wonder if the ridership demand was there, the NIMBY reactions from local residents was low, and the CTA actually had the capital funding (I understand these are all major assumptions) could a Nagle stop be built?

Once again, I'm asking from a structural standpoint. Could a design like the one at Montrose be imitated? Would the curve just east of Nagle cause any issues with the layout (https://rtams.org/capital/50280)? Is there even enough space in the median for an island platform?

I understand I'm making major assumptions regarding the demand, potential NIMBYism, and finances. Nonetheless, I'm curious to hear people's responses. I thank you in advance for your insight and transit knowledge. 

 

 

 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, EdwardL803 said:

Speaking from a structural standpoint, would it be possible to construct an infill station on the Blue line at Nagle Avenue?

I live on the far northwest side of the city. I've always wondered why there's no station in between the Jefferson Park and Harlem stops. Based on this tweet, that gap seems to be around 2.7 miles. That seems to be a very large interval without a station.

https://twitter.com/chi_urbanist/status/1431441249295380483

This made me wonder if the ridership demand was there, the NIMBY reactions from local residents was low, and the CTA actually had the capital funding (I understand these are all major assumptions) could a Nagle stop be built?

Once again, I'm asking from a structural standpoint. Could a design like the one at Montrose be imitated? Would the curve just east of Nagle cause any issues with the layout (https://rtams.org/capital/50280)? Is there even enough space in the median for an island platform?

I understand I'm making major assumptions regarding the demand, potential NIMBYism, and finances. Nonetheless, I'm curious to hear people's responses. I thank you in advance for your insight and transit knowledge. 

 

 

 

It would take a lot of work.  The space between the tracks is too narrow  and the gap between them would have to be widened.  That could affect the lanes of the expressway as well.  

[EdwardL803]

13 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

It would take a lot of work.  The space between the tracks is too narrow  and the gap between them would have to be widened.  That could affect the lanes of the expressway as well.  

Huh, I didn't realize the width of the median changes west of the Jefferson Park stop. Is the highway's left-hand shoulders wider near Nagle Avenue?

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, EdwardL803 said:

Speaking from a structural standpoint, would it be possible to construct an infill station on the Blue line at Nagle Avenue?

I live on the far northwest side of the city. I've always wondered why there's no station in between the Jefferson Park and Harlem stops. Based on this tweet, that gap seems to be around 2.7 miles. That seems to be a very large interval without a station.

https://twitter.com/chi_urbanist/status/1431441249295380483

This made me wonder if the ridership demand was there, the NIMBY reactions from local residents was low, and the CTA actually had the capital funding (I understand these are all major assumptions) could a Nagle stop be built?

Once again, I'm asking from a structural standpoint. Could a design like the one at Montrose be imitated? Would the curve just east of Nagle cause any issues with the layout (https://rtams.org/capital/50280)? Is there even enough space in the median for an island platform?

I understand I'm making major assumptions regarding the demand, potential NIMBYism, and finances. Nonetheless, I'm curious to hear people's responses. I thank you in advance for your insight and transit knowledge.

• There's maybe one engineer that participates on this forum, so I doubt you will get a technical answer here.
• The Jefferson Park to O'Hare extension (and Orange Line) were built when "Rapid Transit is supposed to be rapid transit" with one of the features being more widely spaced stations. This extended somewhat to the Green Line rebuild, as evidenced by the demand now to rebuild some Lake St. stations, but ran into blowback on the south side, where the original plan was not to rebuild stations on streets where the Red Line stopped (Garfield was not rebuilt until about 7 years later), but there were news stories about "I'm not going to walk through rival gang territory," so that idea was dropped.
• The first proposal for rebuilding the north side Red Line called for rationalizing the stations, but Ald. Joe Moore organized a rally to protest closing the Jarvis station. CTA must have realized that a hearing would be required to close any station, so is just rebuilding stations where they were.

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

It would take a lot of work.  The space between the tracks is too narrow  and the gap between them would have to be widened.  That could affect the lanes of the expressway as well.  

Some of the plans for the Airport Express said that the expressway would be rebuilt further out, like the Dan Ryan extra lane, to accommodate 4 tracks, but nothing happened on either front. (And see below.}

2 hours ago, EdwardL803 said:

Huh, I didn't realize the width of the median changes west of the Jefferson Park stop. Is the highway's left-hand shoulders wider near Nagle Avenue?

There might not be a change. The median between Addison and Jefferson Park was barely adequate, with clear backs on the benches and the need to put window guards on the 6000s. It might be wider west of Jefferson Park, with the old yard, and now a middle track, being there.

[EdwardL803]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

• There's maybe one engineer that participates on this forum, so I doubt you will get a technical answer here.
• The Jefferson Park to O'Hare extension (and Orange Line) were built when "Rapid Transit is supposed to be rapid transit" with one of the features being more widely spaced stations. This extended somewhat to the Green Line rebuild, as evidenced by the demand now to rebuild some Lake St. stations, but ran into blowback on the south side, where the original plan was not to rebuild stations on streets where the Red Line stopped (Garfield was not rebuilt until about 7 years later), but there were news stories about "I'm not going to walk through rival gang territory," so that idea was dropped.
• The first proposal for rebuilding the north side Red Line called for rationalizing the stations, but Ald. Joe Moore organized a rally to protest closing the Jarvis station. CTA must have realized that a hearing would be required to close any station, so is just rebuilding stations where they were.

Some of the plans for the Airport Express said that the expressway would be rebuilt further out, like the Dan Ryan extra lane, to accommodate 4 tracks, but nothing happened on either front. (And see below.}

There might not be a change. The median between Addison and Jefferson Park was barely adequate, with clear backs on the benches and the need to put window guards on the 6000s. It might be wider west of Jefferson Park, with the old yard, and now a middle track, being there.

Thanks for the response and information. 

The "Airport Express" you mentioned in your response, is that the train that was supposed to be accommodated by the Block 37 superstation?

I just did a few quick measurements on Google Maps. It seems like the median at Nagle Avenue is in fact narrower than near Jefferson Park. It looks like the left-hand shoulders that abut the median at Nagle are larger in width. 

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, EdwardL803 said:

Thanks for the response and information. 

1. The "Airport Express" you mentioned in your response, is that the train that was supposed to be accommodated by the Block 37 superstation?
2. I just did a few quick measurements on Google Maps. It seems like the median at Nagle Avenue is in fact narrower than near Jefferson Park. It looks like the left-hand shoulders that abut the median at Nagle are larger in width. 

1. Yes
2. If so, they could just move the Jersey barrier.