Metra Up Northwest And West Line Expansions

[Guest metralink]

I'm hearing the public meetings for the proposed locally preferred alternative for the UP Northwest Line and West line improvements are to be held next month.

Information should be on their website soon.

[Guest]

I'm hearing the public meetings for the proposed locally preferred alternative for the UP Northwest Line and West line improvements are to be held next month.

Information should be on their website soon.

Im hoping that the proposed extension of the UP NW line will be extended to Beloit Wis. My sister lives in Poplar Grove which would be along the line and a station built there. It would be a great alternative if that were to become a reality. Housing and businesses are exploding in that region.

[trainman8119]

Im hoping that the proposed extension of the UP NW line will be extended to Beloit Wis. My sister lives in Poplar Grove which would be along the line and a station built there. It would be a great alternative if that were to come into fruition. Housing and businesses are exploding in that region.

Don't wait too long for that kind of extension. At one time, the CNW went to Lake Geneva, and that part of the line past Harvard was eliminated due to lack of ridership. Also, remember that the RTA covers only the 6 county area around Chicago. Any service outside of that area (including Wisconsin), would require $$$$ from the state of Wisconsin. I would think anything past the remote possiblilty of Metra taking over Amtrak service between Chicago and Milwaukee (which has been discussed) would not be high on the Wisconsin agenda.

When you see talk of NW line extensions, it relates to the short extension, building of a new coach yard and added trains (ie. more than the 3 that are already scheduled there) to Mc Henry.

[Busjack]

The other thing to consider is that if the reform legislation ever passes, the RTA would take over these studies (although the current version of SB 572 provides in section 2.01a(i) that 9 directors have to agree to take over the study and find that more than one service board is a potential provider).

Trainman is correct with regard to Wisconsin having to pick up the tab. Under one subalternative of the SE Wisconsin plan, while Wisconsin would contract with Metra to provide the service, which would use Metra trains that now go to Kenosha, the main purpose would be to provide local service between Milwaukee and Kenosha. A description of that project, supporting that view, is on the Southeast Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission site. While one would think that it would supersede the Hiawatha Service, some people in other forums consider that express service.

[trainman8119]

While one would think that it would supersede the Hiawatha Service, some people in other forums consider that express service.

The talk of this heated up when Amtrak was looking at cutting routes and the Hiawatha was on the hit list. The belief is that Wisconsin would give up their funding end for that train and cough up bucks for the Metra service. If that were to ever happen (I question if it ever would), the Hiawatha would cease to operate.

[Busjack]

Another thing I noticed on the KRM site (as the preceding post was going up) was that while the original concept was to use Metra, a more recent newsletter indicates that the current alternative is to use DMUs and require a transfer in Kenosha or Waukegan.

[rmadisonwi]

If I recall correctly, one regional planner involved with the KRM project said that if they operated the line as an extension of Metra, the cost would be so high that its chance of getting FTA approval for federal funding would be next-to-zero (because of the capital cost of new locomotives and Metra cars, plus the operating costs). But a DMU-style option would have a better chance.

He also said that one possibility that was suggested (not that it would happen, but it was one alternative considered) was having Metra convert the UP-North line to DMU operation, and cut off cars in Waukegan or Kenosha, and run the shorter train up to Milwaukee. Were it not for the cost of equipping Metra with a new fleet type, and reducing their flexibility, that might actually be a good idea.

However, no matter what, if they go with DMUs, they've got to find the right equipment. Colorado Railcar has been pushing their new stuff for a few years now, and they haven't exactly received an enthusiastic reception on the market (i.e. orders). Their demo unit caught fire, and as far as I know, the only company to order any was TriRail. I don't know what the status is of that order.

[Guest ctafan630]

Has anyone heard anything news about the proposed extension on the BNSF line to Plano?

[trainman8119]

Has anyone heard anything news about the proposed extension on the BNSF line to Plano?

That probably won't happen. The farthest west that line will go would be Montgomery near the Caterpillar plant. The main reason it would not go farther than that is because Plano is in Kendall County and is outside of the 6 county RTA area. When this first started being talked about, some 10 years ago or so, everyone out there was real gung ho on the idea...until they found out they would have to pay for it in some way. People not be fond of taxing out that way, so the idea is proably dead.

[Guest ctafan630]

That probably won't happen. The farthest west that line will go would be Montgomery near the Caterpillar plant. The main reason it would not go farther than that is because Plano is not in Kendall County and is outside of the 6 county RTA area. When this first started being talked about, some 10 years ago or so, everyone out there was real gung ho on the idea...until they found out they would have to pay for it in some way. People not be fond of taxing out that way, so the idea is proably dead.

I have to disagree, Oswego has a park N ride station now. The lot is set up right next to the tracks with the hopes of one day getting the BNSF extension.

There are a number of people that get on the BNSF at Aurora that live in Yorkville, Oswego and Plano.

I can see the extension taking place. It may be another 8-10 years, but one day it will happen especially with all the housing that is being built in these towns.

The last report said the extension was feasible, it was just a matter of getting the funding and dealing with the fact that Kendall is not in the RTA district.

Everyone keeps talking about Kendall county not being in the RTA district. I am aware of that, but wonder how Kenosha gets around that when Kenosha is not even in the same state

[Busjack]

Everyone keeps talking about Kendall county not being in the RTA district. I am aware of that, but wonder how Kenosha gets around that when Kenosha is not even in the same state

One has to consider that Kenosha station is part of the Union Pacific, formerly Chicago and Northwestern. According to some rail buffs, it is cheaper to turn the train there than at Winthrop Harbor. Nonetheless, while the RTA has the authority to run into neighboring states, it does not have the authority to subsidize service outside of its territory. (See section 2.07 of the RTA Act.)

Thus, if Kendall County wants the service, it has to pay for it. For instance, the Village of Oswego has to subsidize the 907 bus. The Village Newsletter says that a federal grant pays 80% and the Village 20%. Pace doesn't pay anything.

A similar deal with the South Shore. Service at the Hegewisch station is subsidized by Metra, not the state of Indiana.

[trainman8119]

Thus, if Kendall County wants the service, it has to pay for it. For instance, the Village of Oswego has to subsidize the 907 bus. The Village Newsletter says that a federal grant pays 80% and the Village 20%. Pace doesn't pay anything.

From what I remember when I lived out in Oswego about 8 or 9 years ago now, Plano had just lost their Amtrak service. There was a big rumour floating around about the Montgomery extension on the BNSF line. The push was for the line to go on to Plano. When it was discovered that those there would have to pay for it, and what it meant in tax increases, everyone was up in arms and the idea was shelved. Nobody wanted any additional taxes to fund any mass transit, bus or train. The ironic thing about the 907 route is that a number of the feeder routes that way have not really fared that well. The Geneva Shuttle went away, and even back in the days when I drove in Aurora, the 534 was always on the hit list to be cut. 907 is, surprisingly, doing well. But my guess is that if the line ever made it to Montgomery, that would probably result in death for that route because, I would suspect parking at any new station there, and for those who would drive to that particular lot in Oswego, could easily go up the road a tad to get to the train directly. Oswego residents are getting the snot taxed out of them, mainly on the constant school expansion there. They want to be Naperville, and if they don't watch out, they just might be someday....overbuilt and overcrowded.

[Guest ctafan630]

From what I remember when I lived out in Oswego about 8 or 9 years ago now, Plano had just lost their Amtrak service. There was a big rumour floating around about the Montgomery extension on the BNSF line. The push was for the line to go on to Plano. When it was discovered that those there would have to pay for it, and what it meant in tax increases, everyone was up in arms and the idea was shelved. Nobody wanted any additional taxes to fund any mass transit, bus or train. The ironic thing about the 907 route is that a number of the feeder routes that way have not really fared that well. The Geneva Shuttle went away, and even back in the days when I drove in Aurora, the 534 was always on the hit list to be cut. 907 is, surprisingly, doing well. But my guess is that if the line ever made it to Montgomery, that would probably result in death for that route because, I would suspect parking at any new station there, and for those who would drive to that particular lot in Oswego, could easily go up the road a tad to get to the train directly. Oswego residents are getting the snot taxed out of them, mainly on the constant school expansion there. They want to be Naperville, and if they don't watch out, they just might be someday....overbuilt and overcrowded.

Yes the 907 PNR shuttle is doing well and has surprised everyone. I would take it if it weren't for the fact that I have monthly parking at Aurora already and then there is always the ocassional changes to make schedule which would make taking not feasible.

Things are slowly changing in Kendall in regards to transportation needs. Last year the voters passed a sales tax increase to help fund transporation needs. While this will mainly go towards upgrading roads, people's attitudes are slowly changing.

What would it take for Kendall to join the RTA?

[Busjack]

What would it take for Kendall to join the RTA?

An amendment to the RTA Act, and undoubtedly a willingness to accept the 0.75% sales tax. Maybe that would only be a .50% increase, since you indicate that Kendall already has a transportation sales tax, and the new Act rebates .25% of the RTA sales tax to the counties for that purpose.