Pace 40 foot bus procurement

[Busjack]

How many 40-footers are coming and who is the manufacturer?

That was based on the 2010 and 2011 Pace budgets mentioning money for them.

I was going to make a statement about procurement, but there actually is a posting for an IFB for the delivery of 40 foot diesel buses. I guess I have to crack it open.

Well, I have. Basically the request is for a minimum of 9 this year, and for up to 416 over 5 years. It has the usual five or six sentences that Pace is under no obligation with regard to the other 407 until the funds materialize and they give notice to proceed.

What is interesting is that while the 2011 budget says that the Illinois funds may only be spent on green buses, the power plant specs are only for an engine of a nominal 280 HP. Unlike the IFP for the motor coaches, which apparently never became final, there isn't a space for alternate bids between diesel and hybrid, nor a specification of any hybrid system (the motor coach one specified Allison). Since there is no evidence that the usual price difference of about $200,000 per bus doesn't still exist, I am surprised by this omission

Also, it was my understanding that the state had given Pace money for 11 buses, according to the "man of his word," Quinn. One might guess that that was the 2 Highland Park hybrids, so there supposedly is state money for 9 more. However, if it is this 9, that doesn't explain the lack of mention that they be hybrid. A search for the word "hybrid" comes up only twice: for training on hybrid technology, and that any generator for hybrid technology is subject to the powertrain warranty of 5 years or 300,000 miles.

[BusHunter]

is bus #2010 still around? I wonder if pace may try to order those buses as the next 40 footers. I was surprised it's been around for 3 months. That seems to be more than just a "passing by" and since they are eldo happy why not buy from the same company?

[Busjack]

is bus #2010 still around? I wonder if pace may try to order those buses as the next 40 footers. I was surprised it's been around for 3 months. That seems to be more than just a "passing by" and since they are eldo happy why not buy from the same company?

I suppose that with a 416 potential bus order, they can't take the risk of a sole source procurement, and hence advertised. For that matter, they, unlike CTA, are not teed off with NABI.

[MVTArider]

Is it still likely that Pace will go with whoever has the lowest bid regardless of who that is? Or is there a chance they may find a reason to accept a slightly higher bid for a different manufacturer by finding an excuse not to go with the lowest bidder?

It will be interesting to see who bids on this. If they ever say. I have no inside knowledge of course but I'm going to guess NABI, Eldorado and Orion will bid. New Flyer, NovaBus and GILLIG don't seem likely to me but then you never know.

[Busjack]

Is it still likely that Pace will go with whoever has the lowest bid regardless of who that is? Or is there a chance they may find a reason to accept a slightly higher bid for a different manufacturer by finding an excuse not to go with the lowest bidder?

Pace's history is the former. For instance, they said in 2000 that they took the Orion VIs instead of the predecessors (1999 NABI) because they were $10K a bus cheaper (but then they went back to NABI when the VIs were no longer available). They also mentioned that the bids for the ElDorados came in slightly less than expected. Slightly higher may be possible, but based on past history, not very much higher.

The diagrams in the specs looked like New Flyer (at least the rear view), but all specs I have seen lately do. In that it appears like the Standard Bus Spec is being used, one assumes it will be for a standard bus, and, to Pace, a standard bus is a standard bus, unless, as BusHunter implies, ElDorado buttered up Pace sufficiently with 2010. Also, no indication that Pace wants a BRT, as the only mention about chassis is an adjustment if the bidder upgrades its from the 2011 model.

[Busjack]

I'll believe it when Pace takes down this requisition and substitutes another.

Of course, I should step back a bit from that, as it has been pushed back again; 3 month delay so far.

I wonder if this is like 2004, when CTA and Pace both shoved back the bid opening dates their requisitions, for about a year, resulting in CTA readvertising for the 1000s, and the Pace 2600s being delayed.

[BusHunter]

Of course, I should step back a bit from that, as it has been pushed back again; 3 month delay so far.

I wonder if this is like 2004, when CTA and Pace both shoved back the bid opening dates their requisitions, for about a year, resulting in CTA readvertising for the 1000s, and the Pace 2600s being delayed.

We can expect anything. Just because they post a bid request doesn't mean it's written in stone. Until they sign a contract it's not happening yet. Remember what happened with those compobuses that were supposed to be for the Tri-State Rosemont to Harvey service that tanked. Didn't they advertise bids for that?

[Busjack]

Remember what happened with those compobuses that were supposed to be for the Tri-State Rosemont to Harvey service that tanked. Didn't they advertise bids for that?

No. That was just a TIGER discretionary grant application, which, in addition to the one submitted by the Tollway for the I-57 interchange, was rejected. Also, that request had said that Pace would piggyback another order.*

If analogous to anything, it would be the 2004 examples I cited, or the mysterious CTA one for up to 900 hybrid articulateds, or the Pace one for 11 OTRs. Of course, until notice to proceed is issued, anything can happen and probably will.

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*It looks as though the Tollway took down the document, to which I previously linked, but that post mentions the substance.

[Busjack]

I see that after 5-1/2 months, Pace let the computer flip this to "Opened, not yet awarded." So, subject to the contingencies noted above, I guess we'll find out something in the next 15-45 days.