Wacker Drive Reroutes

[Guest ctafan630]

Beginning Monday most of the Wacker Drive Reroutes resume their normal routes once again.

The CTA indicates the #156 resumes its normal route down Jackson. On the resvised schedule, the CTA has the map correct but the timetable is wrong. The timetable still indicates 5 buses will serve Union Station in the AM rush - stopping at Canal and Adams. This is obvious wrong if the buses resume their normal route down Jackson.

Does the CTA even review the timetables before they post them?

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/advance_schedules/2012-11-wacker5/156.pdf

[See Tea Eh]

Technically, every northbound #156 bus (except for those originating at Franklin in the PM rush) stop at Canal & Jackson, which is what the timetable says. Unless it was updated between when you posted and when I looked it up.

[Guest ctafan630]

Technically, every northbound #156 bus (except for those originating at Franklin in the PM rush) stop at Canal & Jackson, which is what the timetable says. Unless it was updated between when you posted and when I looked it up.

There is no difference between the current timetable and the updated one.

If the #156 assumes its normal route, there should be no special trips beginning at Canal and Jackson or Franklin and Jackson since all buses run down Jackson.

[jajuan]

Umm well hate to break it to you but under the normal routing there were buses that started at Jackson and Franklin from the point that the three LaSalle express routes begin under their normal routing, and I think that's what the schedule for the resumed normal routing is referring to. And all southbound buses do have to pass through Canal and Adams under normal routing to get to or pass Union Station. And the way I'm understanding the morning trips starting at Canal and Jackson, some of those buses come from southbound trips that only go to Adams and Clinton and loop around the west end of Union Station via Clinton and get into position for northbound service. The other ones appear to come straight from the garage or a deadhead from serving something else.

[Busjack]

... And the way I'm understanding the morning trips starting at Canal and Jackson, some of those buses come from southbound trips that only go to Adams and Clinton and loop around the west end of Union Station via Clinton and get into position for northbound service. The other ones appear to come straight from the garage or a deadhead from serving something else.

The map for normal service indicates that they use the bus loop at Harrison and DesPlaines. IIRC, that's the destination on the sign, or something like Harrison/DesPlaines via Union Station, rather than just Union Station.

[See Tea Eh]

The 156 has a number of different service patterns, and this predates any Wacker Drive construction or anything like that.

Southbound AM rush trips originate at Belmont/Halsted, Belmon/Sheridan, or Stockton/Fullerton, and have destinations of Adams/Wacker, Adams/Clinton, or Desplaines/Harrison.

The trips ending at Wacker will generally turn there and deadhead back up Lake Shore to the north side, trips ending at Adams/Clinton would loop back around and start at Canal/Jackson (or continue straight down Adams and pull in).

During the two Jackson closures (the one a couple years ago when they were working on the street over Union Station, and this one) the trips originating at Canal became "special" trips that served Union Station during the AM rush, to get workers to points along LaSalle, while no other 156 service operated there. With Jackson back open, there's no longer the need for "special" trips, per se, but they just operate like any other short turn would.

[jajuan]

The map for normal service indicates that they use the bus loop at Harrison and DesPlaines. IIRC, that's the destination on the sign, or something like Harrison/DesPlaines via Union Station, rather than just Union Station.

And Busjack we should all remember that CTA bus schedules as well as the system route map have that disclaimer to always look at the destination sign as there may be trips that end short of the regular route destination.

[Busjack]

And Busjack we should all remember that CTA bus schedules as well as the system route map have that disclaimer to always look at the destination sign as there may be trips that end short of the regular route destination.

Of course, but I was just noting what they do to "circle" Union Station.

[i8itall4u]

The 156 has a number of different service patterns, and this predates any Wacker Drive construction or anything like that.

Southbound AM rush trips originate at Belmont/Halsted, Belmon/Sheridan, or Stockton/Fullerton, and have destinations of Adams/Wacker, Adams/Clinton, or Desplaines/Harrison.

The trips ending at Wacker will generally turn there and deadhead back up Lake Shore to the north side, trips ending at Adams/Clinton would loop back around and start at Canal/Jackson (or continue straight down Adams and pull in).

During the two Jackson closures (the one a couple years ago when they were working on the street over Union Station, and this one) the trips originating at Canal became "special" trips that served Union Station during the AM rush, to get workers to points along LaSalle, while no other 156 service operated there. With Jackson back open, there's no longer the need for "special" trips, per se, but they just operate like any other short turn would.

That's exactly right. Further, my concern about the timetable map is that Franklin doesn't appear on it. Who would know, except regular riders, where to board the bus at the point of origin?

[Busjack]

That's exactly right. Further, my concern about the timetable map is that Franklin doesn't appear on it. Who would know, except regular riders, where to board the bus at the point of origin?

If the expresses (134, 135, 136), are any indication they don't. It is just a staging area for buses that theoretically start at Jackson-Franklin on Jackson.

I don't know that if there is a bus waiting on Franklin for its time flashing its signs, they let you on.

[Guest ctafan630]

And all southbound buses do have to pass through Canal and Adams under normal routing to get to or pass Union Station. And the way I'm understanding the morning trips starting at Canal and Jackson, some of those buses come from southbound trips that only go to Adams and Clinton and loop around the west end of Union Station via Clinton and get into position for northbound service. The other ones appear to come straight from the garage or a deadhead from serving something else.

The northbound buses turn onto Jackson at Canal. They only started at Adams because of Jackson being closed while Wacker was under construction.

My point is the timetable is wrong. Since all buses are now opertaing on their normal route pattern, there should be times listed for all buses that start at DesPlaines under the Canal/Jackson column since the buses turn from Canal onto Jackson to head down to LaSalle.

[jajuan]

The northbound buses turn onto Jackson at Canal. They only started at Adams because of Jackson being closed while Wacker was under construction.

My point is the timetable is wrong. Since all buses are now opertaing on their normal route pattern, there should be times listed for all buses that start at DesPlaines under the Canal/Jackson column since the buses turn from Canal onto Jackson to head down to LaSalle.

You're parsing too deeply here because although I get what you're saying, I think passengers would understand from the schedule map that the bus is going to pass through turn at Canal/Jackson and stop at the restored stop there if it left Desplaines under the now returned normal routing. In this day and age when you text the stop number to BusTracker to find out when the bus is going to come it doesn't matter all that much.

[Busjack]

You're parsing too deeply here because although I get what you're saying, I think passengers would understand from the schedule map that the bus is going to pass through turn at Canal/Jackson and stop at the restored stop there if it left Desplaines under the now returned normal routing. In this day and age when you text the stop number to BusTracker to find out when the bus is going to come it doesn't matter all that much.

Besides that, most stops near CUS have BusTracker LED signs. The ones on Canal and Clinton certainly do.

[Guest ctafan630]

You're parsing too deeply here because although I get what you're saying, I think passengers would understand from the schedule map that the bus is going to pass through turn at Canal/Jackson and stop at the restored stop there if it left Desplaines under the now returned normal routing. In this day and age when you text the stop number to BusTracker to find out when the bus is going to come it doesn't matter all that much.

The schedule map will give you the route, but it wont give you a time for a stop or a major intersection. More people need to know the approximate time then they do the route map.

Bustracker is not full proof because of glitches and ghost buses. It is only as good as what the CTA programs into it. Besides if that is the case, they why should the CTA even create paper schedules if the majority of riders should find arrival times via some other digital format.

[Busjack]

The schedule map will give you the route, but it wont give you a time for a stop or a major intersection. More people need to know the approximate time then they do the route map....

A CTA printed timetable never has.

On the other hand, if the digital sign on the bus shelter saying "156 to Belmont 2 minutes" is wrong, there is something seriously at fault in that.

[See Tea Eh]

Besides if that is the case, they why should the CTA even create paper schedules if the majority of riders should find arrival times via some other digital format.

That is a very good question. I seriously doubt any measurable percentage of CTA riders actually use the public timetable (either printed or online PDF) when planning trips. No data on that, just a hunch.

Still, despite the glitches of ghost buses and whatnot, bus tracker is still going to be far more accurate than a printed timetable in most circumstances. Bus Tracker gives you stop-by-stop info (and so do online trip planners...when they work), instead of a handful of intersections, plus bus tracker doesn't cover half the day with a generic "every x-y minutes until" which really gives you no info at all.

[jajuan]

That is a very good question. I seriously doubt any measurable percentage of CTA riders actually use the public timetable (either printed or online PDF) when planning trips. No data on that, just a hunch.

Still, despite the glitches of ghost buses and whatnot, bus tracker is still going to be far more accurate than a printed timetable in most circumstances. Bus Tracker gives you stop-by-stop info (and so do online trip planners...when they work), instead of a handful of intersections, plus bus tracker doesn't cover half the day with a generic "every x-y minutes until" which really gives you no info at all.

Yes this is true. I mostly use the timetables for a general idea of when bus routes I need start and end service and to get a feel for what the intervals between buses are supposed to be. But I use the BusTracker in online and text format to know when I need to be at a certain stop.

[Busjack]

Yes this is true. I mostly use the timetables for a general idea of when bus routes I need start and end service and to get a feel for what the intervals between buses are supposed to be. But I use the BusTracker in online and text format to know when I need to be at a certain stop.

I agree with that. For instance, I looked at the timetables to indicate that the 60-UIC/Jury Duty/26th* was the correct bus and the stop was on Clinton, and some only went to Roosevelt. However, I relied on the BusTracker sign that the next one was only to Roosevelt and I had to wait 8 minutes.

In addition, since way back when, there have been metal bus stop signs with the route information.

______

*This would be the correct name, as very little of it is on Blue Island. :lol:

[brownliner]

<br />That is a very good question. I seriously doubt any measurable percentage of CTA riders actually use the public timetable (either printed or online PDF) when planning trips. No data on that, just a hunch.<br /><br />Still, despite the glitches of ghost buses and whatnot, bus tracker is still going to be far more accurate than a printed timetable in most circumstances. Bus Tracker gives you stop-by-stop info (and so do online trip planners...when they work), instead of a handful of intersections, plus bus tracker doesn't cover half the day with a generic &quot;every x-y minutes until&quot; which really gives you no info at all.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Well, since things like google maps use the public timetable data to generate routes and travel times, I bet a lot of people are actually using it. They (riders and map providers both) may use the tracking data for times for a trip that starts now, but I and other people use the feature to figure out what's the best way to get somewhere in the future, or what time I need to leave to get to somewhere on time.

The only times I look at the paper (pdf, really) schedules is to get first/last bus times, or the rush hour headways.

[Busjack]

Well, since things like google maps use the public timetable data to generate routes and travel times...

Actually they do not; they use the GTFS data underlying the Tracker systems.

Kevin can speak better with regard to CTA, but here is the Pace explanation.

[See Tea Eh]

Well, since things like google maps use the public timetable data to generate routes and travel times, I bet a lot of people are actually using it. They (riders and map providers both) may use the tracking data for times for a trip that starts now, but I and other people use the feature to figure out what's the best way to get somewhere in the future, or what time I need to leave to get to somewhere on time.

The only times I look at the paper (pdf, really) schedules is to get first/last bus times, or the rush hour headways.

That clearly wouldn't be the case anyway, since not only do public timetables not provide schedules at each stop, but they would also be useless for providing data during the "every 2 - 37 minutes until..." period.

As busjack noted, there's a separate data source for that. And those don't stay 100% up-to-date anyway. For example, Google Transit is still giving directions based on the Wacker Drive reroutes being in effect. CTA would have to provide a new file with updated data in order for that to be corrected. It could happen this week or next, but my guess is they'll wait until the December 16 schedules are ready and make the changes then.

[Busjack]

That clearly wouldn't be the case anyway, since not only do public timetables not provide schedules at each stop, but they would also be useless for providing data during the "every 2 - 37 minutes until..." period.

As busjack noted, there's a separate data source for that. ...

Which reminds me of the data posted by Fails the Turing Test, based on those files, including Brownage runs not on the pdf timetables.

[Guest ctafan630]

On the other hand, if the digital sign on the bus shelter saying "156 to Belmont 2 minutes" is wrong, there is something seriously at fault in that.

Isn't the times listed on the bus shelters coming from the same place the Bus tracker times are coming from?

I have see the times listed on the shelters be wrong, just like I have seen Bus Tracker count down the minutes to show "Now" and then "Passed", but no bus ever showed up.

[Busjack]

Isn't the times listed on the bus shelters coming from the same place the Bus tracker times are coming from?

I have see the times listed on the shelters be wrong, just like I have seen Bus Tracker count down the minutes to show "Now" and then "Passed", but no bus ever showed up.

Yes, but then, to maintain your argument, you would have to show that it showed up per a printed timetable, which, as others have pointed out, is meaningless if it says "every 8 to 12 minutes."

[Guest ctafan630]

Yes, but then, to maintain your argument, you would have to show that it showed up per a printed timetable, which, as others have pointed out, is meaningless if it says "every 8 to 12 minutes."

I never made the argument that a printed timetable is always right. My argument was the new timetable for the #156 was wrong to begin with even though the CTA claimed it was new.