Get in the Go Lane

[wesmich]

Today I saw 6692 on route 78(Montrose) advertising the Go Lane on the front destination sign. How many messages can the Novas hold and what reasonable explanation is there to how this particular message got turned on?

[jesi2282]

That is something i've wondered about, I know CTA has the "Clever Devices" on there buses which controls the destination signs (and the drivers cannot override them), but I'm not sure about P/R messages, because I still see the "ALL CTA BUS ROUTES NOW ACCESSIBLE" and 7 years later I still see the "CTA NEW FLYER" signs.

[See Tea Eh]

PR signs all have to be manually selected. There's a way to do it in Clever Devices, but it's cumbersome. Clearning out a PR sign even more so. So, most drivers don't bother. However, I suspect that their sightings have to do with operators intentionally
putting up messages knowing they'll stay up there forever, since very few actually know how to/want to bother with resetting them through the Clever Devices unit.

I don't know why these old PR messages are still even in the program. Just a matter of keep adding, never delete. You have PRs referencing the Go Lane (which on the Novas with the flip-dot signs takes about 20 seconds to cycle through since it's on two separate exposures), and the 61-seat capacity of the NABIs, among other things that are no longer up to date.

[jajuan]

It makes you wonder how hard is it to actually delete some of this stuff. After 7 or 8 years, we're still seeing the 100% accessible one when you'd have to have been living under a rock for that long if you've lived here and use the CTA regularly not to know by now all buses in the CTA fleet are accessible. And the GO Lane has been gone almost that long and we still see that pop up sometimes. It's like come on guys, when you update the program for the Clever Devices unit to account for route restructurings and/or route reassignments in a new pick, eliminate all that clutter. You're giving PR on stuff that savvy CTA riders not to mention transit forum members know are years out of date and in some cases gone for years.

[See Tea Eh]

Technically, it's not a Clever Devices issue, it's a sign programming issue (the two are separate). But you're right, it really isn't that hard to delete.

To put a PR sign in using clever devices, you have to navigate to a submenu, and enter the PR code manually. I forget the exact process, because it's been a few years since I've last done it. The PR code is whatever is programmed into the sign itself.

To clear it out, you go to that same submenu, delete the existing code, and enter 0 instead. Clever Devices, in this case, isn't that clever.

It takes just enough effort that most won't bother, and many others simply don't know how.

[jajuan]

Technically, it's not a Clever Devices issue, it's a sign programming issue (the two are separate). But you're right, it really isn't that hard to delete.

To put a PR sign in using clever devices, you have to navigate to a submenu, and enter the PR code manually. I forget the exact process, because it's been a few years since I've last done it. The PR code is whatever is programmed into the sign itself.

To clear it out, you go to that same submenu, delete the existing code, and enter 0 instead. Clever Devices, in this case, isn't that clever.

It takes just enough effort that most won't bother, and many others simply don't know how.

Oh okay. I see what you meant now when you first mentioned programming. You learn something new everyday. Thanks. So if I'm understanding it right now, does it mean they would have to go through each individual bus and do it manually as you described the process, if they wanted to get rid of the old PR signs? No wonder we see all these signs that are years out of date considering that's close to 1800 buses to scroll through obsolete code and delete. You are right, Clever Devices isn't clever under that circumstance.

[Busjack]

Oh okay. I see what you meant now when you first mentioned programming. You learn something new everyday. Thanks. So if I'm understanding it right now, does it mean they would have to go through each individual bus and do it manually as you described the process, if they wanted to get rid of the old PR signs? No wonder we see all these signs that are years out of date considering that's close to 1800 buses to scroll through obsolete code and delete. You are right, Clever Devices isn't clever under that circumstance.

The impression I got is that it is the programming in the Luminator (or Twinvision) box; the Clever Device merely picks it.

So, If they can reprogram 1 Indiana-Hyde Park to 51st to 1 Bronzeville-Union Station to Mich 35, they could clean out the old signs, and if someone wanted to use the CD, they would just get a blank sign.

See, for instance, this brochure on the Luminator ODK (obviously a newer model) and Twinvision Elyse.

[BUSANGEL#1]

That is something i've wondered about, I know CTA has the "Clever Devices" on there buses which controls the destination signs (and the drivers cannot override them), but I'm not sure about P/R messages, because I still see the "ALL CTA BUS ROUTES NOW ACCESSIBLE" and 7 years later I still see the "CTA NEW FLYER" signs.

Not true operators can override destination signs they do it all the time for special events, upon manager instructions, or when clever devices are out of order.

[See Tea Eh]

Oh okay. I see what you meant now when you first mentioned programming. You learn something new everyday. Thanks. So if I'm understanding it right now, does it mean they would have to go through each individual bus and do it manually as you described the process, if they wanted to get rid of the old PR signs? No wonder we see all these signs that are years out of date considering that's close to 1800 buses to scroll through obsolete code and delete. You are right, Clever Devices isn't clever under that circumstance.

What Clever Devices does is it tells the sign controller what code to use. It has no say in what that code ultimately displays. That is done by the destination sign programming software.

As for the difficulty of updating 1800 buses, well, they do it every time there is a route change.

The sign guy at South Shops has the various software for the different sign types (and it's much simpler now that the RTSs and Flxibles are gone; if they manage to get Luminators in the new Novas, that would bring sign types down to 1). He programs the signs using that software (for Luminator, the software is called IPS; I don't recall what the TwinVision software is called). Once he has the sign program done (meaning, adding new signs, revising other signs, possibly delete some unneeded ones if they were so inclined), then he loads that program onto flash cards, and those cards get distributed to the garages. I know they were working on a wireless sign distribution system, but I don't know if they ever got that worked out (newer Luminator signs can be programmed with USB drives instead of flash cards; I don't know which version sign controller CTA included in the 4300s).

It's then up to the garage to hit each bus. When a new sign program is released, they'll often just hit each bus as it pulls in, though occasionally you'll find some stragglers that somehow missed the sign update.

The Luminator signs can update in about 5-10 seconds, from what I recall. A very simple process. The TwinVision signs are a pain in the rear. The update actually takes several minutes, and has to be done twice: once for the front sign, and once for the side-rear signs. On a side-note, if you see Novas where the front sign works but the side and rear signs are broken (seems to be a particular problem out of 77th Garage), it's because the TwinVision actually controls the front sign separate from the side-rear signs. I don't know the technical terms, but the Luminator ODK takes the whole program in one go, and controls the front, side and rear signs together. The TwinVision somehow controls the front sign separately, and it seems that whatever connection leads to the side and rear signs likes to fail a lot, hence the buses with the triangle test patterns on the side signs, or buses where the front sign is displaying the correct info, but the side and rear signs are showing incorrect route information.

Back in the day, when you had the Vultron signs with the thumbwheel controls, a lot of garages seemed not to even bother with updating the signs. I'm told it was a huge PITA to update those (I never actually saw it done in person, so I don't know). It required some massive device rather than a simple flash card to update it. It was common to find sign programs several years out of date with those buses.

As for the Clever Devices side, those are updated wirelessly, and contain all of the GPS data needed for stop announcements, and sign codes attached to route trip patterns. Those are distributed wirelessly, but, as I recall, they had to be at their home garage to receive the update (long story, but basically, each garage's wireless network was separate, and was programmed to only send updates to buses at that garage; otherwise it would return an error indicating that it was missing a bunch of buses because those buses happened to be at other garages). There are systems that track and report when a bus has not received a Clever Device update (though it is up to the garages to actually do something about it).

The typical timeline is that a few days, up to a week or so before a new pick goes into effect, they'll send a new distribution out to the garages (and sometimes even mid-pick, if needed for things such as detours or minor bus stop changes, or to correct errors as they are noted). The buses receive the distribution when they're being fueled. Once it goes into effect, Clever Devices will use the schedule data to associate run numbers with trips, and those trips with patterns and sign codes. It will then insert that sign code into the sign controller, as noted above.

So, to get the signs to display correctly, you need: 1) A working Clever Devices unit, 2) an up-to-date Clever Devices distribution, 3) a working destination sign, and 4) an up-to-date sign program.

And all of that can be foiled by a goofball operator who likes to put "THE NEW CTA BUS 61 SEATS" as the PR code on his Optima.

[See Tea Eh]

Not true operators can override destination signs they do it all the time for special events, upon manager instructions, or when clever devices are out of order.

There are two ways to manually change destination signs. One is to go into manual mode on Clever Devices (either by entering an incorrect run number, or by entering run 999). The other is to open the panel above the dash board, and manually key it in on the ODK behind it (which is necessary when Clever Devices is simply out of order).

[Busjack]

I don't recall what the TwinVision software is called)....

Back in the day, when you had the Vultron signs with the thumbwheel controls, a lot of garages seemed not to even bother with updating the signs. I'm told it was a huge PITA to update those (I never actually saw it done in person, so I don't know). It required some massive device rather than a simple flash card to update it. It was common to find sign programs several years out of date with those buses.

..

1. It is called Elyse. See above.

2. The old signs had Eproms.

[jajuan]

What Clever Devices does is it tells the sign controller what code to use. It has no say in what that code ultimately displays. That is done by the destination sign programming software.

As for the difficulty of updating 1800 buses, well, they do it every time there is a route change.

The sign guy at South Shops has the various software for the different sign types (and it's much simpler now that the RTSs and Flxibles are gone; if they manage to get Luminators in the new Novas, that would bring sign types down to 1). He programs the signs using that software (for Luminator, the software is called IPS; I don't recall what the TwinVision software is called). Once he has the sign program done (meaning, adding new signs, revising other signs, possibly delete some unneeded ones if they were so inclined), then he loads that program onto flash cards, and those cards get distributed to the garages. I know they were working on a wireless sign distribution system, but I don't know if they ever got that worked out (newer Luminator signs can be programmed with USB drives instead of flash cards; I don't know which version sign controller CTA included in the 4300s).

It's then up to the garage to hit each bus. When a new sign program is released, they'll often just hit each bus as it pulls in, though occasionally you'll find some stragglers that somehow missed the sign update.

The Luminator signs can update in about 5-10 seconds, from what I recall. A very simple process. The TwinVision signs are a pain in the rear. The update actually takes several minutes, and has to be done twice: once for the front sign, and once for the side-rear signs. On a side-note, if you see Novas where the front sign works but the side and rear signs are broken (seems to be a particular problem out of 77th Garage), it's because the TwinVision actually controls the front sign separate from the side-rear signs. I don't know the technical terms, but the Luminator ODK takes the whole program in one go, and controls the front, side and rear signs together. The TwinVision somehow controls the front sign separately, and it seems that whatever connection leads to the side and rear signs likes to fail a lot, hence the buses with the triangle test patterns on the side signs, or buses where the front sign is displaying the correct info, but the side and rear signs are showing incorrect route information.

Back in the day, when you had the Vultron signs with the thumbwheel controls, a lot of garages seemed not to even bother with updating the signs. I'm told it was a huge PITA to update those (I never actually saw it done in person, so I don't know). It required some massive device rather than a simple flash card to update it. It was common to find sign programs several years out of date with those buses.

As for the Clever Devices side, those are updated wirelessly, and contain all of the GPS data needed for stop announcements, and sign codes attached to route trip patterns. Those are distributed wirelessly, but, as I recall, they had to be at their home garage to receive the update (long story, but basically, each garage's wireless network was separate, and was programmed to only send updates to buses at that garage; otherwise it would return an error indicating that it was missing a bunch of buses because those buses happened to be at other garages). There are systems that track and report when a bus has not received a Clever Device update (though it is up to the garages to actually do something about it).

The typical timeline is that a few days, up to a week or so before a new pick goes into effect, they'll send a new distribution out to the garages (and sometimes even mid-pick, if needed for things such as detours or minor bus stop changes, or to correct errors as they are noted). The buses receive the distribution when they're being fueled. Once it goes into effect, Clever Devices will use the schedule data to associate run numbers with trips, and those trips with patterns and sign codes. It will then insert that sign code into the sign controller, as noted above.

So, to get the signs to display correctly, you need: 1) A working Clever Devices unit, 2) an up-to-date Clever Devices distribution, 3) a working destination sign, and 4) an up-to-date sign program.

And all of that can be foiled by a goofball operator who likes to put "THE NEW CTA BUS 61 SEATS" as the PR code on his Optima.

Okay thanks for the clearer explanation on how that works on where different steps fall in to do updates and which devices in the whole link the new software program is inputted. So basically my first impression that if should be easy to delete old out of date signs was correct then considering as we noted they manage to get signs updated when there are route changes during a particular pick.