U of C Routes

[trainman8119]

It looks like U of C routes will still go to 103rd for the fall pick, but might get transfered to Archer for winter.

I am just wondering why those routes would go to Archer before 74th (or for that matter why 103 before 74). Is not 74th closer to the area these routes operate ???  I would think that this could cut down on some deadhead time and fuel. Might this be a storage problem ??? If so, wouldn't 74th be able to house the smaller buses ?

Just wondering.

[Busjack]

74 serves the 55, X55 and 59 routes in the Hyde Park neighborhood (but those all intersect Ashland, which is the relief point). 1 and 2 are (or at least were) 77 routes. The question is essentially what is closest to 59th and Cottage Grove, and none of the 4 garages really is. If only the 52nd Street garage were still around.

[trainman8119]

I agree....but I still think that 74 would be closer to the area than Archer would. Maybe the north/south would be the same (5900 south to 3900 south for Archer and 5900 south to 7400 south for 74th), but Wood is closer to Cottage Grove than Rockwell is. Maybe there is some plan in place that would utilize the smaller buses in an off-peak situation someplace at Archer and therefore putting the buses there would be more beneficial than putting them someplace else.

[Busjack]

The speculation regarding Archer would be with respect to the 55A, 55N, 62H and similar routes.

[rmadisonwi]

I'd guess there's a 50/50 chance that the U of C routes could run out of Archer this fall.

[busfan4022]

74 serves the 55, X55 and 59 routes in the Hyde Park neighborhood (but those all intersect Ashland, which is the relief point).  

I'm glad you brought that up. On Connections the host took the 55 Garfield bus to Hyde Park. There he got off, at the stop (i suppose) were the bus #500 and #4921. He did the whole segment about the Hyde Park area. Why won't the buses get shipped to 74? I think Frank isn't making smart decisions. I also would like to point out 74th garge dosen't have a single low-floor bus, and this is a oppritunity to put some in there. Or the CTA could make a Hyde Park route or something...

[rmadisonwi]

Which routes operate out of which garages is not the kind of decision that Frank Kruesi would make. Staff in operations, planning and schedules make those kinds of decisions based on the operational needs of the company.

For one thing, it's generally desirable to have as few types of buses at each garage as possible, so that the maintenance area can have a smaller supply of spare parts.

This is one reason why the U of C routes will likely run out of Archer starting with the winter pick. Archer operates a lot of low-ridership routes on the west side (service west of Midway), and they can use the 30-foot buses on those routes as well. North Park will also get some for the Evanston service.

As for 74th not having any low floors, that's just the way the fleet is at the moment. Kedzie didn't have any non-artic low floors until two months ago. It's possible that someone could decide to shift the fleet around in the next year or so, but, to keep the number of bus types at each garage to a minimum, 74th will probably have to wait a couple of years until the 4400s start to go before that garage receives any low-floor buses.

[Busjack]

It's possible that someone could decide to shift the fleet around in the next year or so, but, to keep the number of bus types at each garage to a minimum, 74th will probably have to wait a couple of years until the 4400s start to go before that garage receives any low-floor buses.

If that's the case, then CTA is throwing out its service standards. It threatened to do so with the doomsday budget, but this, while maintaining the rule that the number of types of buses at a garage should be limited to 3 or 4, violates the one that the average age should be approximately the same around the system. What is the justification for Archer having an average age of 2.5 (117 2001s and 112 2006s) and 74 having an average age of 12 (140 1995s and 60 1991s) unless someone is under the belief that a bus after a life extending rehab is a new bus? Or, for that matter, at 103, where, other than on the express routes and the occasional NABI sighting elsewhere, it seems like it is running mostly 5300s transferred from Archer and elsewhere. The junk that was moved to Kedzie (now being replaced) was justified on the basis that FG needed Kedzie's 6000 series buses with preheaters. What is the justification for this discrepancy? Who makes these decisions?

[rmadisonwi]

I don't know if a rehabbed bus is given any "discount" on its age for the purposes of calculating the average age of the fleet. If so, then the average age of the fleet would be quite a bit lower.

I also don't know why the current fleet favors Archer garage, though when new buses are being delivered to replace really old buses, the fleet averages can be a bit skewed for a while.

A quick back-of-the-napkin calculation shows that the CTA fleet is, on average, 9.3 years old. The unofficial age distribution by garage is:

Archer: 3.2 years

Chicago: 10.1 years

Forest Glen: 8.2 years

Kedzie: 8.1 years

North Park: 10.9 years

74th: 12.2 years

77th: 9.2 years

103rd: 12.3 years

Kedzie's average will decline over the next couple of months as buses are delivered and older ones are retired, and since I don't know what the plan is for deliveries beyond that, plus the fact that the current order from New Flyer isn't anywhere near enough to replace all of the Flxibles (considering the fleet expansion needed to accommodate the service changes this year), it wouldn't be my place to speculate what the fleet will look like a year from now.

And keep in mind that I said it's possible that some of the fleet might shift around in the next year.

[Busjack]

At least our calculations agree on 74 (maybe there are a few oldies left at A).

My point is that when the Novas came, they went only to 77, A, C, and F and the TMCs were transferred from the last 3 to the remaining 4 garages, supposedly to consolidate series. If one wanted to maintain average age and the rotation, the set being received now should go to K,74,103, and NP (K having the highest priority because of the swap with F over the preheaters).

If Archer really needed equipment with more capacity, its 6500s should have been transferred to the other garages, instead of its 5600s (i.e swap the 6500s for 4400s or 6000s at 77 or 103). I doubt that now that Archer has a virtually all new fleet, that swap can be implemented without protests from that community.

Maybe sending many of the 5600s to 103 is an indication that it is in line to receive 1000s, but probably not.

With regard to replacing all the 5300s, Frank said in the news release that the option order would result in that. While there were originally 470 5300s, and the west side restructuring probably added a requirement for 40 or so buses, the 5300s were down to about 426 due to retirements after K and 77 received NABIs in excess of those needed to replace remaining MAN 4000s and 7300s. Also, since only 10 buses are needed for the U of C routes, 35 other buses will be displaced by the Optimas. So, it looks like Frank's projection is about right.

Finally, as John Kass would ask, is this because Archer serves Bridgeport?

[rmadisonwi]

The west side restructuring, along with a few other unrelated service improvements, actually bumped up vehicle requirements by 80 buses. You do have a point, though, in that I didn't consider the Optimas as replacements for the Flxibles.

While the numbers fluctuate on a weekly basis as new buses are delivered, old buses are retired, and others are pulled out of maintenance and back into service, as of this past week there were 517 New Flyers (2006) and Flxibles (1991). The total order of New Flyers and Optimas is 495. This results in a net decrease of 22 buses once all the New Flyers and Optimas are delivered, if we assume that all of the Flxibles will be gone at that time.

Another factor that isn't considered is that some routes (besides U of C) could be shifting around to different garages in the next year or two. This will shift vehicle requirements, and, as a result, could cause garages to gain or lose buses compared to the current distribution.

[Busjack]

While the numbers fluctuate on a weekly basis as new buses are delivered, old buses are retired, and others are pulled out of maintenance and back into service, as of this past week there were 517 New Flyers (2006) and Flxibles (1991).  The total order of New Flyers and Optimas is 495.  This results in a net decrease of 22 buses once all the New Flyers and Optimas are delivered, if we assume that all of the Flxibles will be gone at that time.

This also assumes that both the incoming and outgoing are still being used at full capacity, which probably isn't the case. Also, there is a lot of equipment sitting around the 77th yard; does it go off the roster only if "scrap" is painted on it?

[RIPTA42]

... unless someone is under the belief that a bus after a life extending rehab is a new bus?

As an aside, NYCTA considered its rehabbed 1981-2 RTSes to be 1996-7 buses, but they were completely rebuilt from the frame up. I don't think CTA's "rehabs" are nearly extensive enough to qualify as a full rebuilding.