Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[MVTArider]

54 seems to be only 40fts now Actually I was on 1164 on 54 yesterday heading back to 28th. (Went with my Dad to the Global Market event with those free passes.) Also I saw a 7140+ on the 3. I haven't seen any BRT's by South yet but I bet some are now assigned there. I would sort of like to see what the bus assignments are for the garages just to see how they are divided up.

I don't know if I will be able to get to downtown to see that double decker or not but thanks for the heads up I bet one of the News stations will have a blurb on it too.

[MVTArider]

Well i wasn't able to get to ride the double decker since I had class and homework but my Dad was on it this afternoon. Heres a few pictures he took:

I'm gonna have to ride 121 again soon :lol:

[Guest]

You know Im not an expert at Minneapolis transit but Ive seen quite a bit in the four times Ive been there since 1999. Im kinda stumped as to why Gillig Phantoms seemed to be the workhorses for MT rather than New Flyers which are built in MTs home state. I know MT ran a fleet of NF artics for many years but you would think they would have a fleet that shouldve represented mostly of buses manufactured in their home state such as Neoplan I would think was the workhorse for Denver RTD and transit systems around the central and western states. Flxible dominated Ohio and other central and eastern states, including CTA with 800 Flxible buses in 1995, Gillig which up to a few years ago were the workhorses for AC Transit in Oakland and surrounding cities. SF Muni wasant a Gillig customer, although up until recent SF Muni did add some exAC Transit Gilligs to their fleet as well as other systems in California. When I lived in San Diego, SDT had a 330 bus fleet which the primary model was the Gillig Phantom. They placed three orders, the first buses were delivered I believe around 1985 45 buses, then in 1991 they recieved another 40 buses retiring the Flxible New Looks, then later came 80 of the 1200 series which allowed retirement of most of the U.S. built GM fishbowls in the SDT fleet. The Canadian Fishbowls however, built in 1981, stayed on for a few more years. They had a fleet of 24 Ikarus buses which arrived in 1989. The fleet of GM fishbowls, the early MTS bus service had recieved Gilligs later, Flxible New looks and MAN artics later replaced by New Flyer artics. I know now New Flyer is becoming the workhorse for MT but I wonder why it wasant like this years ago.

[Tcmetro]

^ I guess Gillig bid lower than New Flyer. However all artics have been New Flyer since 1991 when they started retiring the MAN artics.

---------------

Sweet! The U has Van Hool's now!

[MVTArider]

IIRC New Flyer actually came in slightly lower but didn't meet some of the contract requirements about training and fixing a certain % of problems or something Thus we went with Gillig. The good news is from what I have heard MT will probably be going towards more artics now with increased ridership and less seats on the 40ft Gillig BRT's. Now some updates:

• I saw a Trimet NF #2901 ?40LFR at D.D./Interstate on Sunday, didnt have the camera though
  
• I saw a BRT parked outside South today, and 1173 on 515 yesterday.
  
• I finally rode some Ikaruses at the U today, they were on 122. #635 had #2924 inside and #634 had #2929 inside.
  
• Also rode a very nice artic Van Hool on 121
  

Finally here are some pics:

[Tcmetro]

Nice the U has Van Hool AG330's! Also I made an error above. The 40 foot Van Hools are not A330's, but rather A300L's. The A300L's were introduced earlier this year and the only other operator is Salt Lake City's UTA system.

I saw that the logo on MVTA #4340 was off. The words "MVTA" are smaller than usual, but the arc is the same size. MVTA NFI D40LF #4455 has smaller fleet numbers than usual as well.

[Busjack]

634 and 635 rears look like the AC Transit Ikarus or NABI buses running on the Northwestern Shuttle (except for the grating). Do you think yours have a similar origin?

Also, if I remember correctly, the Van Hool articulateds have an engine in the front compartment, behind the driver. Was this one like that?

[MT0851]

Also, if I remember correctly, the Van Hool articulateds have an engine in the front compartment, behind the driver. Was this one like that?

That's correct, the engine compartment is in the tractor section, however it's not directly behind the driver, but more so directly across from the middle doors.

As seen here on a VIVA AG300 (York Region, Ontario), http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/gotransit-2111-02.jpg

[MVTArider]

I saw that the logo on MVTA #4340 was off. The words "MVTA" are smaller than usual, but the arc is the same size. MVTA NFI D40LF #4455 has smaller fleet numbers than usual as well.

I hadn't even noticed that, and I even took a picture.

634 and 635 rears look like the AC Transit Ikarus or NABI buses running on the Northwestern Shuttle (except for the grating). Do you think yours have a similar origin?

I'm not officially sure where these two are from, there didn't seem to be any major clues on the interior other than their original #'s being 2924 & 2929.

[speculation]

They would possibly fit AC transit's bill though, according to Busdude they had 97 NABI's #'s 2901-2971, also this picture of the interior of a AC Phantom sure looks similar to the interior of the Ikarus/NABI's I was on. They also ran pretty well so if they are '97's that would be believable.

One final note, apparently First not only operates the buses but they also own them link That would explain some things like a ex-UofM Bluebird being used for the NWA shuttle, and why the U also seems to have a few ex-Denver TheRide Phantoms rolling around, since First was/is a contract operator.

[/speculation]

[Tcmetro]

Yeah I forgot to mention that they were ex-AC Transit in my last post. AC Transit traded them to ABC Companies for a credit on Van Hool buses. They are from 1997, and according to the CPTDB wiki page for AC Transit they have Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines and Allison World B500R transmissions. If I'm not mistaken the NABI 416's are #634-637.

The Phantoms at the U are ex-Denver???

[MVTArider]

Yeah I forgot to mention that they were ex-AC Transit in my last post. AC Transit traded them to ABC Companies for a credit on Van Hool buses. They are from 1997, and according to the CPTDB wiki page for AC Transit they have Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines and Allison World B500R transmissions. If I'm not mistaken the NABI 416's are #634-637.

The Phantoms at the U are ex-Denver???

Cool, BTW I'll have to check out the ABC lot in Faribault sometime.

The Phantom I was on seemed to have the same upholstery and seat style as the one I saw in Cannon Falls that was in Denver livery, again thats just speculation though. I'll have to see if I can dig up some info on them, now I'm curious.

[Tcmetro]

I looked up pics of the Phantoms in Denver, they look really similar, even the destination signs look the same. So they have a good chance of being from Denver. I went to go find the U of M Phantoms and NABI 416's yesterday but they were using the cutaways. I wonder if they are getting rid of the Gillig Advantage's and the NFI D60LF's. On the U of M Parking and Transportation website they say all the buses will have the new look (i.e. Van Hool) by the beginning of Spring Semester. Here is the article (in case it is deleted from the website):

Campus Shuttles Get New Look

Last updated: 11/24/08

PTS announces a new look for University campus shuttles. And look for brand new full-size buses with great rider-friendly features. The Van Pool buses – 40 ft. or 60 ft.

* push-button stop signals instead of pull cords located within easy reach

* rider controlled push-button doors

* 3 or 4 doors for quicker loading and unloading

The University’s first hybrid bus

* use less gas

* cause less pollution

Although two of the buses are currently in service, PTS will officially introduce the new line on December 1 at noon outside of Morrill Hall. Attendees will have the chance to view the sharp new outside design and sink into plush, comfortable seats branded with the University M.

All campus shuttles – mini-buses and vans – will be converted to the new exterior look. The transition will be completed in time for the start of spring semester.

http://www1.umn.edu/pts/news/index.html#11

I wonder if this means those Van Hool minibuses or A300K's (30-foot buses).

[MVTArider]

^I don't know what they are getting rid of Personally I hope they keep some NF's since the one I was on seemed pretty new and had a really smooth ride to it. Sadly though I think the NABI's are gone with the New Van Hools I guess it depends on how many buses are needed for peak service on 121, 122,123,&124.

Well I went to the MOA yesterday, not much to report other than I saw 1185, a 400 LF on 54 wish I had the time to ride it, and SEPTA 8209 was at DD, it was sandwiched between a GreyHound MCI and a school bus so I only got a few pics

Also got some D35LF footage to add to my collection. I think i'll try to get a Youtube channel going over semester break

[Busjack]

SEPTA 8209 was at DD

Especially strange looking bus, in that:

• It appears to have the two pods on the roof, just like the CTA 4000s.
  
• However, instead of having the rear sign on the solid back panel, it looks as though it is perched on the roof (unless that is something else).
  

[Coastercameron]

I do believe that the Gillig Phantoms the U is using (currently in the process of being retired) are from Denver. The seating is very distinctive and unique to denver.

Does anyone know how old the D60LFs and Gillig Advantage busses the U currently has (also being retired) are? They seem way too new to sell off. I'm assuming First will probably transfer them to service elsewhere. I was hoping they would keep the D60LFs because they are well suited to service at the U with the 3 door design, and having more 60ft busses would also help increase the capacity of the connectors.

On the otherhand, I am not going to miss the Advantages. They were by far the most poorly suited busses in the fleet. They could hardly hold any standing load and didn't have that much seating. The layout also meant you speant HOURS at each stop while people tried to get out and in.

The new Van Hools are pretty sleek and stylish, and I love the extra doors. I'm a bit concerned that they will become "Van Hells" as they are known in San Francisco (you can read all about the AC Transit/Van Hool debacle).

Finally, as already established, the NABIs the U has (again, being retired) they are indeed ex-AC Transit. If you look above the front seats you will see the "Yield to elderly" stickers have the AC Transit logo on them. Also, there were only 3 of these buses that I ever saw, 634, 635, 636.

[Tcmetro]

I'm convinced that the U's Phantoms are from Denver.

Also the order consisted of 15 Van Hools, the 16th bus is a Gillig BRT Hybrid. It had to be an American built bus, because the hybrid was funded by the government.

The Advantages are horrible. Good riddance if they go. I will miss the D60LF's if those go though.

The NABI's weren't that great either. I saw one on Oak St. with smoke coming from the engine awhile ago.

[MVTArider]

I agree, D60LF's exempt, welcome Van Hools and good riddance to the old stuff.

[Tcmetro]

All of the new MVTA schedules are on the Metro Transit website. They are not in the service change article, but in the route pages (drop down menu on front page).

[mplsguy08]

The new buses that the U of M has look really nice, Havent been on them since I dont go to that school but they look great. I thought that all the 16s in the morning til midday ( right before rush hour) are arctics? I got on a 16 at 1: 21 and it was a phantom - 643 and the bus got packed before we got to the the stop by the light rail ( people standing to the front). I dont get why metro transit doesnt use some of the arctics on the 18 route which I take home. Those buses can get very packed although I saw one a couple weeks ago but it was an instruction bus.I guess its because the nicollet garage has no arctic buses and all the 18 buses run out of the nicollet garage monday-friday. Man there also some gross people that ride the 18. today this guy who was intoxicated and sitting in the seat behind had a bowl movement ugh .

[MVTArider]

^ Thanks I like the look of the new schedules, its nice to see all the routes in them now

^Either put artics on the 18 or start a more limited stop service on it, L18E perhaps, where it stops at every 3rd or 4th stop instead for starters. I can't make heads or tails of the 16 and "articulated buses during midday". BTW I hope you didn't have to ride too much farther after the um, movement

Went to the Cedar Ave. open house yesterday, they had the new Cedar Grove station plan, it looks cool, and the new AVTS plan again, even cooler. for the AVTS that skyway over Cedar will be awesome and apparently the plan is once the road work is completed the buses will actually pull up to doors so you step out of the enclosed area right into the bus :)

[Tcmetro]

Question: Will the Cedar Grove Station have the median bus stop when it opens next fall?

Not a fan of the new MVTA schedules, way too many errors, and the maps have less detail than the old ones.

I'm not surprised that MT put 40' buses on the 16 again. I don't think they like using the artics on the urban routes. There are no artics on the 18 because Nicollet Garage doesn't get artics. They are needed though.

I also think Metro Transit follows the 'LA Model' for limited stop routes. In LA they only put limited routes in when the locals get overcrowded. The goal is to get people going to major hubs and transferring between routes to used the LTD, and the residents along the line to use the local, not to provide a faster journey.

[MVTArider]

Question: Will the Cedar Grove Station have the median bus stop when it opens next fall?

Not a fan of the new MVTA schedules, way too many errors, and the maps have less detail than the old ones.

It didn't look like it. What surprised me was the plan showed it being off Nicols rd. instead of Cedar, so I'm not sure how it all connects, it looked looked a good design IMO though, basically a loop right off Nicols so buses can pull in and then right out again from either direction. It also has a building with waiting area and bathrooms instead of just a fancy shelter.

The thing I'm not sure of is I think the plan for the Cedar Grove redevelopment was to have two stations after a while, the current maps only show one though so I guess one was scrapped?

I like the timepoints on the schedules being easier to follow and I think the they are easier to understand, especially with two routes on one map now having different colors like 480/484. The maps are a little less detailed though. I also noticed 445 route deviation service to the YMCA/UPS is not mentioned at all even though you can still request the bus for that stop.

[Tcmetro]

The plan is to have the bus loop on Nicols Road, and build a median bus stop on Cedar with a walkbridge from the freeway station to the bus loop in the future. I thought that they might be expediting the freeway station, but I guess not.

Errors I noticed are 444 trips listed in the Sunday schedule that don't exist, and showing Rt. 476 continuing on Cedar past Palomino, which it doesn't. Also they don't list the branches on the maps like they did with the 470 schedule that was printed in September.

[Busjack]

Not much to do with the CTA 1000s, but last night driving down the Kennedy, I caught up alongside a brand new New Flyer going to SEPTA #8205. Their buses look unusual, they dont look like the traditional NF bus. The rear end is a solid flat panel, the rear destination sign protrudes out from the top of the bus. The topside of the bus had some equipment as well, it looked like a hybrid.

It was noted, with pictures, in this thread. I guess Philly is neither Chicago nor Minneapolis, and thus unclassifiable. :lol:

[Coastercameron]

I'm kind of confused by the U bus situation right now. They have definately rolled out a good number of the new Van Hools, but I'm not sure if they have recieved the whole order yet. I have only seen 2 Van Hool articualteds so far (**23 and **24, cant remember the first 2 digits). However, they are still using the D60LFs consistantly, and I typically noticed at least 2 of the Advantages in service as 121E's last week. I also noticed an old phantom here and there still in service, especially on the 122. The Phantoms i've seen still in use are clearly ready to be retired, the bike racks have been removed as well as the windshield cameras First had installed in them.

I'm not super impressed with the Van Hools, one has a completely non-functioning front display, another has a SUPER dim front display, and all of the 330's make strange noises. Also, I was getting off one of the Van Hool artics, and only half of the door opened. One panel opened and the other didn't. All 3 other doors opened fully. It was strange. :blink: