Suggestion for a Temporary Bus Swap

[wordguy]

A few days ago, rmadisonwi focused on the need to minimize use of the oldest buses. (see "Flxible Runs", Post #8). He's absolutely right.

At two garages, North Park and 103rd, the 16-year-old TMCs are still being routinely used for base service, weekends as well as weekdays. I believe that a temporary bus swap between the following garages would be helpful:

Forest Glen - 103rd: 6000 series Flxibles for TMCs

Archer - North Park: New Flyers for TMCs.

Not being familiar with scheduling, I wouldn't really know how many buses should be involved. But I'd think that these changes would at least minimize the need for using those tired old workhorses for anything but rush hour or school runs. Even though the New Flyers are rolling in again, it'll be several months until enough of them have arrived to cover base service at North Park and 103rd.

In the meantime, Forest Glen and Archer would still have an ample roster of modern buses. Because both of these garages have had TMCs in their fleets in recent years, I'd guess that experienced mechanics would still be familiar with them. (Some drivers might need additional training though).

Since North Park already has New Flyers and 103rd has 6000 series Flxibles, no additional training or changes in inventory would be needed at those garages.

Any thoughts?

[ArcherRider]

This is a good idea until North Park and 103rd Street get there New Flyers orders.

[Busjack]

You are new, but I had previously mentioned that CTA had violated its service standards by first trying to make Archer an all new barn (and 77th nearly so) while ignoring garages with higher average age, including 103rd. I retreated when CTA exercised the remainder of the options. However, it didn't seem to make sense to send the 1000s to Archer first, and then distribute the workable 5700s to 103rd and some to Chicago.

The Forest Glen situation was created when it was decided that outdoor "garages" would get only buses with preheaters. Since preheaters were subsequently installed in rehabbed TMCs, that objection would be alleviated. Also, all the TMCs were rehabbed in about 2002, so they are not in as bad of condition as the remaining 5300s, and, unlike the 5300s, are still within their FTA service life (as extended by the rehab) until 2009.

However, you have to consider the cost of moving the buses, especially across the city from Forest Glen to 103rd in a time of scarce resources. Also, if the Doomsday plan is instituted, 380 or so buses will be put out of service, anyway.

This might not deter the transit authority (after all, Pace has recently swapped buses between Joliet and North Shore, for little apparent reason), but the bus shuffling has its costs.

[Busjack]

Also, some history might shed light on CTA's thinking .

• TMCs were originally only at NP, 77th, and Kedzie. However, after the 1995 acquisitions (5800 New Flyers and 6000 Flxibles), almost all of the garages had them (although not too many at Kedzie and 103rd).
  
• If, as others advocated, CTA should have replaced buses in place, the garages having MAN Americanas in 2001-2002 (when the Novas were received, and CTA replaced about 113 Flyers and 280 or so MANs), were 103rd, 74th, Kedzie, and North Park. However, instead, those garages got TMCs from the others. Most of Archer's and Chicago's TMCs went to 103rd. There was the bus swap between Kedzie and Forest Glen, to give FG buses with preheaters, as previously discussed. NP got whatever TMCs that were rehabbed at that point.
  
• There was also a subsequent bus swap between 103rd and 77th when 77th got 103rd's 5300s. For one reason or another, 77th always gets new buses, and it isn't known if that swap was to pave the way for 77th to get the 1000s before 103rd, or just to even out running miles or average age.
  

Notwithstanding this, all of the above has resulted in 103rd getting no new equipment for local routes (it did get 50 NABIs for express runs).

[BusExpert32]

The Forest Glen situation was created when it was decided that outdoor "garages" would get only buses with preheaters. Since preheaters were subsequently installed in rehabbed TMCs, that objection would be alleviated.

Then why did Forest Glen transfer their TMCs to other garages when there was no need to because of the installed preheaters.

[Busjack]

Then why did Forest Glen transfer their TMCs to other garages when there was no need to because of the installed preheaters.

Because at the time the preheaters were not installed, because the TMCs did not originally come with them, they were added in the rehab process, and that was still in progress. Just about all the TMCs that had preheaters at that time went to North Park. (North Park even ran a few 6200s for a short time). Basically, the decision was made that all of FG's Flxibles went to Kedzie (maybe a few went to 103), and many of the TMCs also went there (this being the source of Kedzie's 4700s). In return, FG got 6000s from Kedzie. Any TMCs that remained after the swap were moved when FG got the Novas, soon thereafter.

[wordguy]

I'm new as a contibutor, Busjack, but not new to the site. I'm also familiar with the recent history of bus assignments and the rationale behind them.

With regard to garage assignments of the earliest 1000 series New Flyers, I fully agree with your observations. It made no sense to assign them to Archer, or any other depot with nearly-new Novas. (Kedzie really DID need them). However, that's 20-20 hindsight now.

True, shuffling buses can be costly, but consider the following points:

-The cost of operating the TMCs, as well as the 5300s, is vastly higher than that of newer buses. A chart on the CTA website illustrates the comparison. The purpose of the suggested swap would be to create less time on the street for the TMCs (as well as the remaining 5300s at 103rd). I believe that the savings realized from reduced use of the oldest buses, and hopefully fewer breakdowns as a result, would more than offset the expense of shuffling equipment.

-Even though North Park and 103rd will appparently be getting New Flyers simultaneously, (a very wise decision, IMO), it could be several months, if not over a year, until enough New Flyers have arrived to fill all base runs.

-Last of all, despite the FTA mandate for extending the service lives of the RTSs, the reality is that many of them are "well beyond ripe". According to reports on the CTA website, that's why the last option for New Flyers was advanced. As it is, given the current delivery schedule, many of the RTSs WILL probably continue to operate well into 2009.

I do realize that if the Doomsday plan kicks in, my suggestion would be less relevant. Hopefully it won't happen. The sponsors of SB 572 seem to believe that they have enough votes to override the governor's likely veto. (While I don't like the prospect of a regressive sales tax increase, it's preferable to a catastrophic transit meltdown).

-Dan

[BusExpert32]

A few days ago, rmadisonwi focused on the need to minimize use of the oldest buses. (see "Flxible Runs", Post #8). He's absolutely right.

At two garages, North Park and 103rd, the 16-year-old TMCs are still being routinely used for base service, weekends as well as weekdays. I believe that a temporary bus swap between the following garages would be helpful:

Forest Glen - 103rd: 6000 series Flxibles for TMCs

Archer - North Park: New Flyers for TMCs.

Not being familiar with scheduling, I wouldn't really know how many buses should be involved. But I'd think that these changes would at least minimize the need for using those tired old workhorses for anything but rush hour or school runs. Even though the New Flyers are rolling in again, it'll be several months until enough of them have arrived to cover base service at North Park and 103rd.

In the meantime, Forest Glen and Archer would still have an ample roster of modern buses. Because both of these garages have had TMCs in their fleets in recent years, I'd guess that experienced mechanics would still be familiar with them. (Some drivers might need additional training though).

Since North Park already has New Flyers and 103rd has 6000 series Flxibles, no additional training or changes in inventory would be needed at those garages.

Any thoughts?

This is a good idea, but just not a reliable thing to do in this case. All of this transferring and swapping buses would cost more money than to just repair the broken down buses and wait until a larger amount of New Flyers comes in. Another thing, in your suggestion Archer would have to recieve New Flyers again and so would Forset Glen. What would be the point of that?

[wordguy]

This is a good idea, but just not a reliable thing to do in this case. All of this transferring and swapping buses would cost more money than to just repair the broken down buses and wait until a larger amount of New Flyers comes in. Another thing, in your suggestion Archer would have to recieve New Flyers again and so would Forset Glen. What would be the point of that?

First of all, regarding Archer & Forest Glen, you meant TMCs rather than New Flyers, didn't you? My point is that the objective would be to limit the TMCs (and 5300s as well) to rush hour and school service. At NorthPark & 103rd, they're still being used for base runs, owing to an acute shortage of newer 40-foot buses at those garages. As I indicated in Post #7 of this thread, according to the CTA's own records, the TMCs are a great deal more costly to operate and maintain than the newer fleet. (On the CTA website, the comparison is made between TMCs and New Flyers).

This is just guesswork on my part, but consider this: I wouldn't be surprised if, in general, the TMCs assigned to Kedzie, 74th, and yes, even 77th are probably in better condition than their counterparts at North Park & 103rd. Why? Because they're not being as intensely used. The less they're used, the less costly they are to the CTA, and the less likely they are to fail on the street.

-Dan

[BusExpert32]

First of all, regarding Archer & Forest Glen, you meant TMCs rather than New Flyers, didn't you? My point is that the objective would be to limit the TMCs (and 5300s as well) to rush hour and school service. At NorthPark & 103rd, they're still being used for base runs, owing to an acute shortage of newer 40-foot buses at those garages. As I indicated in Post #7 of this thread, according to the CTA's own records, the TMCs are a great deal more costly to operate and maintain than the newer fleet. (On the CTA website, the comparison is made between TMCs and New Flyers).

This is just guesswork on my part, but consider this: I wouldn't be surprised if, in general, the TMCs assigned to Kedzie, 74th, and yes, even 77th are probably in better condition than their counterparts at North Park & 103rd. Why? Because they're not being as intensely used. The less they're used, the less costly they are to the CTA, and the less likely they are to fail on the street.

-Dan

Regarding Archer and Forest Glen I meant New Flyers because if they got TMCs, than they would have to be retired and Archer would once again recieve New Flyers