Pace 2009 Budget

[Busjack]

The preliminary budget document is now up.

The 2009 capital plan is for 37 fixed route, 30 foot buses. Hence, the betting can start on how many will actually be received and what they will replace.

It also indicates that if money were unconstrained, it would buy 90 buses in 2009, but that probably won't happen.

Also of some interest is that the budget indicates that the South Suburban Express (one guesses 889 to Rosemont) is funded for the first year by JARC, and will be run by a contractor. I guess this is Colonial/Academy's chance to get its bid in.

Finally, the active fleet indicates 140 ElDorados in fixed route service, and unlike last year's budget, does not show 3 in paratransit service. Supposedly, only 3 Ikarus, 11 35 foot Orion Is (out of 21), and 59 40 foot Orion Is (out of 85) are still on the roster, and while some have been sold off or reported out of service by 5750, that still seems low.

[Busjack]

It also takes to page 120 of 127 to find out that in addition to raising suburban fares by 25 cents, local fares (such as within the collar cities) would rise to the suburban level, from $1.25 to $1.75, shuttle fares would rise to $1.75, and express fares would rise from $3 to $4. No discount deals any more.

[Busjack]

Supposedly, only 3 Ikarus...

You have to wonder how Pace makes up its figures. Others on this board said 6, and I saw 2216, 2246, 2251, 2261, 2264, 2268, and 2271 on WebWatch, which comes to 7. Then you have the people who say a bus is in service until the license plate and inspection certificate comes off.

I sort of have the feeling that the 8 35 foot Orion Is at First Westmont (mostly Lisle area routes) are off the budget, too.

[Lostinthe80s]

If Pace accepts CTA passes , then CTA should acccept Pace passes

[Busjack]

If Pace accepts CTA passes , then CTA should acccept Pace passes

This whole business of whether fares are interconnectable hits me as completely messed up. For instance, it appears that CTA splits the fares with Pace on certain types of passes, but not others. While the RTA has its argument that the revenue source shouldn't matter, so long as the proportion of subsidy to operating costs is met, the RTA Act gives the service boards the power to set their own fares, so it would seem that the Pace board would have the power to refuse to accept CTA passes, as it did a couple of years ago, until the RTA provided a partial subsidy.

As Pace is talking about destroying the grid system, CTA has already done that by saying that since it no longer sells transfers with cash bus fare, it no longer accepts Pace transfers either (although the CTA does still accept a rider using a CTA fare card on a Pace bus, and then transferring to CTA).

If the RTA had any power, it would straighten this out, but my betting is on Pace not accepting certain CTA passes after Jan. 1.

If I ran things, I would have CTA and Pace fares interchangeable within a reasonable geographic range. I don't agree with the idea that you could use a transit card (or a transfer if one were issued), to board Pace on the north side, transfer to the L, and somehow get to 95th Street to transfer to a Pace South bus within 2 hours, all for $1.75. Of course, with all the slow zones on the L, that may no longer be possible. Also, while Krambles thought 15 years ago that distance based bus fares could become technologically feasible, apparently they still are not.

[qwantae]

If Pace accepts CTA passes , then CTA should acccept Pace passes

I cannot believe that CTA won't accept Pace Transfers, it is pretty rip off of riding an RTA.

[jajuan]

If Pace accepts CTA passes , then CTA should acccept Pace passes

No they shouldn't. The Pace passes you're referring to are the ten ride tickets and the $39 unlimited pass, both of which are made for Pace riders only and explicitly say so on Pace's schedules and other literature it provides to its riders. They were conceived by Pace for those riders who get just about all of their transit services from Pace and almost never ride the CTA. Basically, why pay $75 when you don't ride the CTA? On the flip side, if CTA were to accept the Pace $39 pass, what would be the incentive to buy the 30-day pass from CTA. That wouldn't be good business sense. You don't make a move that sends your customers elsewhere, especially when it comes to the CTA which has to recoup 51% of its operating expenses from the fare box.

[trainman8119]

There was a time in the day when you could "transfer" between CTA and Pace.

However the 2 agencies have spent the better part of the last 10 years trying

to screw each other that neither trusts the other to hand over any money

in interlining services. So the solution, started in part by Pace with the U-Pass

was not to accept certain types of CTA passes. CTA in turn stopped taking

Pace passes, and with the elimination of transfers, stopped accepting them too

and the rest is history !!!!

[MVTArider]

There was a time in the day when you could "transfer" between CTA and Pace.

...

I remember using a transfer coming from the '05 auto show, the farebox on the unidentified Pace bus on 600 (probably just an Orion I but I still have a doubt) ate it though so I couldn't keep it for my collection :(

[Busjack]

I remember using a transfer coming from the '05 auto show, the farebox on the unidentified Pace bus on 600 (probably just an Orion I but I still have a doubt) ate it though so I couldn't keep it for my collection

That basically ended in Jan. 2007, when CTA raised fares and abolished selling transfers with cash bus fares. Since then, you could only do that if you purchased a CTA Transit Card, basically only at L stations, although there are other sites where vending machines are available.

[Busjack]

I cannot believe that CTA won't accept Pace Transfers, it is pretty rip off of riding an RTA.

Surprisingly, both a Pace release and the CTA agenda indicates that the 7 day pass question has been settled, although the CTA/Pace joint pass will be $5 more than a CTA one.

I was putting my money on an impasse, as before.

[Busjack]

Finally, a possible explanation for the $800,000 earmark continually mentioned in the Pace budgets for Oak Park buses.

[Busjack]

Where are their hybrids? 10 years in the future?

The Oct 2008 minutes have somewhat of an answer, and it is apparently no.

That also indicates that no other area has the bureaucratic mess this one does.

[rvwnsd]

The Oct 2008 minutes have somewhat of an answer, and it is apparently no.

That also indicates that no other area has the bureaucratic mess this one does.

At least you have the ability to transfer from one transit vehicle within agencies. Here in San Diego, there are no transfers. You pay $2.25 to get on a bus ($2.50 for the trolley) and you pay another fare to get on a connecting bus, even within the city. A $5.00 all-day pass is available that allows unlimited rides on the city bus, trolley, and some suburban buses. We don't even have reloadable transit cards yet. Those are "coming soon." Then they wonder why many of the buses run empty. Hmm....

[Guest]

At least you have the ability to transfer from one transit vehicle within agencies. Here in San Diego, there are no transfers. You pay $2.25 to get on a bus ($2.50 for the trolley) and you pay another fare to get on a connecting bus, even within the city. A $5.00 all-day pass is available that allows unlimited rides on the city bus, trolley, and some suburban buses. We don't even have reloadable transit cards yet. Those are "coming soon." Then they wonder why many of the buses run empty. Hmm....

Hey!! Mr. San Diego Transit! I lived there back in the 90s when SDT ran the 400, 800, 900 series GMs, 200s Ikarus 416s, 700 series Flx New Looks a/c, 1000 MAN artics and the 300, 500, 1200 series Gilligs. Back then you still had Chula Vista Transit, National City Transit, I believe all absorbed by the MTS except for NCTD. My favorite was the Ikarus and the loud diesel engines just like the New Flyer Artics. Does MTS still use the former SDT Kearney Mesa facility and 12th/Imperial? I was stationed at Miramar NAS before it became MCAS and at the time I would ride the #20 to downtown or to NC Fair. The bus didnt enter the base, it entered a turnaround at the main gate of the base off of Kearney Villa Rd. Im planning to do a trip in Spring of 2009 to San Diego.

[Busjack]

At least you have the ability to transfer from one transit vehicle within agencies.

Not if you pay a CTA cash fare or have a Pace transfer to CTA.

[Busjack]

Also of some interest is that the budget indicates that the South Suburban Express (one guesses 889 to Rosemont) is funded for the first year by JARC, and will be run by a contractor. I guess this is Colonial/Academy's chance to get its bid in.

That is now up on the Pace Bid Page, as well as 855 (mentioned by 5750 a couple of days ago) and 1012. Colonial better get its bid in before another charter operator on this forum does. ;)