new flyer 2000 delivery

[trey824]

does any one know what the hell is taking so long for buses 2027-2029 to get in one of our garages????????? i mean i know about the whole budget problems but this has went beyond crazy.

[Busjack]

does any one know what the hell is taking so long for buses 2027-2029 to get in one of our garages????????? i mean i know about the whole budget problems but this has went beyond crazy.

It doesn't have anything to do with budget problems.

I'm sure we have someone with access to New Flyer's production control system. That is where the answer really lies, not in this forum.

[cta 5555]

saw 2027 on the street on the 29.

[trey824]

saw 2027 on the street on the 29.

oh ok so its just 2028 2029 now on the way???

[busfan2847]

oh ok so its just 2028 2029 now on the way???

2028 was on the 29 on Monday

[trey824]

2028 was on the 29 on Monday

ok if we have all 1030 buses why is it still under "delivery in progresss"anyone????????????

[Busjack]

ok if we have all 1030 buses why is it still under "delivery in progresss"anyone????????????

There is still 2029, not mentioned yet.

However, I do see that someone took that down unchallenged on Wikipedia. As someone else here who claims to have a legal background knows, "lex non curat de minimis."

Also, the fact that one bus has not yet been reported here does not justify your anxiety noted by the repeated punctuation. Sorry if my trying to coax you down from the ledge invokes more opprobrium coming my way.

[greenstreet]

2029 is now at 103rd

[Busjack]

2029 is now at 103rd

Now that trey can be satisfied by deleting the "delivery in progress" statement, we can note the surprising with this delivery, now that it is done:

• Those who said FG wouldn't get any were right.
  
• Those who said they were replacing the 5300s and Archer would get some were initially correct, and then turned out to be wrong.
  
• Those who said 74th wouldn't get any were wrong, although it only got 20 on its own account that it kept; approximately 125 were transfers.
  
• Nobody could have predicted the even-odds until it happened, but there were those who sniped back and forth with each other that NP or 103 was the next to get any ended up both right. The ones saying that the even-odd would be undone also appear to be right to some, but an undetermined, extent.
  

[Guest]

Now that trey can be satisfied by deleting the "delivery in progress" statement, we can note the surprising with this delivery, now that it is done:

• Those who said FG wouldn't get any were right.
  
• Those who said they were replacing the 5300s and Archer would get some were initially correct, and then turned out to be wrong.
  
• Those who said 74th wouldn't get any were wrong, although it only got 20 on its own account that it kept; approximately 125 were transfers.
  
• Nobody could have predicted the even-odds until it happened, but there were those who sniped back and forth with each other that NP or 103 was the next to get any ended up both right. The ones saying that the even-odd would be undone also appear to be right to some, but an undetermined, extent.
  

And no one can dispute the statement that the buses from one part of the city are better or worse than the other. These buses were undoubtedly distributed painfully even between the south, north and west sides. So lets put those remarks to rest that the south side gets nothing while the north side has all the good equipment. South and west sides have the newest buses.

[jajuan]

And no one can dispute the statement that the buses from one part of the city are better or worse than the other. These buses were undoubtedly distributed painfully even between the south, north and west sides. So lets put those remarks that the south side gets nothing while the north side has all the good equipment. South and west sides have the newest buses.

On this I can agree. After years of the west and south sides being ignored on the assignment of newer equipment, the newest buses are on the south and west sides. Of course, those that ended up on the west side could have been delivered directly there instead of routing them south just to bring them west within a week or two after arriving in Chicago under the crazy cycle of neverending bus reassignments that are out of control. However, other than a few minor moves from NP to K most recently, things seem to have settled, FOR NOW.

[jacksone44]

2029 is now at 103rd

Saw it on the X28 this afternoon.

[Guest]

On this I can agree. After years of the west and south sides being ignored on the assignment of newer equipment, the newest buses are on the south and west sides. Of course, those that ended up on the west side could have been delivered directly there instead of routing them south just to bring them west within a week or two after arriving in Chicago under the crazy cycle of neverending bus reassignments that are out of control. However, other than a few minor moves from NP to K most recently, things seem to have settled, FOR NOW.

Well I have to disagree when you say the west and south sides have been ignored for years when it comes to new bus deliveries. Previous bus deliveries have all started at 74th, 77th, Chicago, Kedzie, Archer and 103rd. TMCs, New Flyers, Novas, Flxibles 5300/6000s, Optimas, Nabis have all had their initial assignments at these garages. Only the NF 5800s are the buses in recent years that did not go to the south or west side. A good majority of these bus deliveries started at 77th. These facts are undisputed.

[Busjack]

Well I have to disagree when you say the west and south sides have been ignored for years when it comes to new bus deliveries. Previous bus deliveries have all started at 74th, 77th, Chicago, Kedzie, Archer and 103rd. TMCs, New Flyers, Novas, Flxibles 5300/6000s, Optimas, Nabis have all had their initial assignments at these garages. Only the NF 5800s are the buses in recent years that did not go to the south or west side. A good majority of these bus deliveries started at 77th. These facts are undisputed.

It is a matter of perspective.

After the preheater swap (I guess it was 2001) Kedzie had the worst fleet, in that its newest bus was 10 years old, while the oldest bus at Forest Glen was 6. Kedzie's situation pretty much continued until the 1100 or sos arrived. That was also about the time the various posts, which one can mildly describe as dealing with "lack of equity," popped up.

There were also the 8 months or so that we we convinced that 74th would not get any (especially around when BusTracker started) or just 30 (presumably just to cover the 30 6000s that were off the roster), and then, all of the sudden, there was the big swap of 1082-1161 or thereabouts.

Also, somewhat surprising is that 77th only got one allocation of approximately 100, while K, 103, P, and C got about 200. 5750 was certainly right that the trend was that 77th got anything new first, but not this time. Maybe they are waiting for 4208-43??.

One can probably say (depending on one's view of only 3 garages having Novas, and, again, subject to where 4208 + are assigned) that things have been somewhat evened out at the moment. But one might question whether 74th got the fair end of the deal by getting buses that were already "broken in" by other garages, or if they aren't that depreciated yet (I remember the C drivers saying that certain New Flyers were 103rd's problem now.)

[jajuan]

Well I have to disagree when you say the west and south sides have been ignored for years when it comes to new bus deliveries. Previous bus deliveries have all started at 74th, 77th, Chicago, Kedzie, Archer and 103rd. TMCs, New Flyers, Novas, Flxibles 5300/6000s, Optimas, Nabis have all had their initial assignments at these garages. Only the NF 5800s are the buses in recent years that did not go to the south or west side. A good majority of these bus deliveries started at 77th. These facts are undisputed.

Ok. Novas, TMCs, 5300s and 6000s started at the southside garages. I'm speaking of NEW deliveries not trades of already used buses from other garages to make room for new models at previous garages when I say the west and south side got the short end of the stick. And as I recall, Kedzie never got Novas when they got here, and nor did 103rd. As far as Kedzie, 74th, and 103rd go, there was a minimum ten year gap between any new deliveries. Kedzie got no new buses from the time it first got 6000s in 1995-96 to the time it got 7500s in 2004. 103rd got none the point of getting 5300s in 1991 to getting 7500s in 2003. 74th got none since getting the final 6000s in 1996 all the way up to last year with that initial delivery of 30. So in that regard, those three garages got the short end of the stick. Chicago can be said to have faired better in that it got 4400s, 5300s and the 4900s when they were still fairly new a approximately four years old when the garage opened before seeing its delivery of Novas about seven years later and then getting 1000s about four years after that.

[Guest]

Ok. Novas, TMCs, 5300s and 6000s started at the southside garages. I'm speaking of NEW deliveries not trades of already used buses from other garages to make room for new models at previous garages when I say the west and south side got the short end of the stick. And as I recall, Kedzie never got Novas when they got here, and nor did 103rd. As far as Kedzie, 74th, and 103rd go, there was a minimum ten year gap between any new deliveries. Kedzie got no new buses from the time it first got 6000s in 1995-96 to the time it got 7500s in 2004. 103rd got none the point of getting 5300s in 1991 to getting 7500s in 2003. 74th got none since getting the final 6000s in 1996 all the way up to last year with that initial delivery of 30. So in that regard, those three garages got the short end of the stick. Chicago can be said to have faired better in that it got 4400s, 5300s and the 4900s when they were still fairly new a approximately four years old when the garage opened before seeing its delivery of Novas about seven years later and then getting 1000s about four years after that.

Jajuan, you just proved my point! You stated that the south and west side garages tend to recieve new buses first before any other areas of the system. If any garage on the south side gets snubbed Ill say it was 103rd. Ill admit 103rd seems to be a forgotten garage. They got 5300 Flxs and nothing new until the Nabi order. Kedzie was passed up probably only because it had still fairly new 6000s. But you cant make an argument only because Kedzie got snubbed out of the Nova order. If anything I wish Kedzie had gotten the Novas instead of FG, I couldnt stand those ugly things anyway! FG didnt get new buses from 1991 untill 2002. So if you want to talk about a gap in bus deliveries, look at FGs record not to mention getting many "hand me downs" along the way. The TMCs, the 6000s, the Flyer D901s, the MANs. I think FG gets shafted more than any other garage in the system. Not to mention we got snubbed out of the 1000 New Flyer order. And if we get them sometime in the future, they will be, you guessed it, Hand Me Downs! All in good humor Jajuan.

[Busjack]

• If the theory was that Novas went to garages that also had 5300s, FG shouldn't have received any Novas, because it had unloaded its 5300s to Kedzie before receiving the Novas. So, to that degree I agree with you. However, since Novas have lower seating capacity, maybe they do belong at FG and Archer.
  
• I repeat my perspective comment. jajuan is right that while certain garages eventually get buses, the allocations of 1000s should not have started with Archer, Chicago and 77th. I think I commented three years ago that the allocation premise was flawed in that the theory behind distributing the Novas was originally to even out the average age by pairing them with 5300s, and then the theory was to replace the 5300s with 1000s. I was consistent that the only garage that initially deserved 1000s (before the options were exercised; remember the first order was only for 265) was Kedzie. However, it now appears that things have evened out. But at that time, we didn't know that the options for the other 785 were going to be exercised.
  
• Don't forget the Optimas (I know you haven't ).
  
• You'll probably tee off 5555 and friends who like the Flxs better than the NFs, but I don't see C offering a swap, at least yet.
  

[jajuan]

Jajuan, you just proved my point! You stated that the south and west side garages tend to recieve new buses first before any other areas of the system. If any garage on the south side gets snubbed Ill say it was 103rd. Ill admit 103rd seems to be a forgotten garage. They got 5300 Flxs and nothing new until the Nabi order. Kedzie was passed up probably only because it had still fairly new 6000s. But you cant make an argument only because Kedzie got snubbed out of the Nova order. If anything I wish Kedzie had gotten the Novas instead of FG, I couldnt stand those ugly things anyway! FG didnt get new buses from 1991 untill 2002. So if you want to talk about a gap in bus deliveries, look at FGs record not to mention getting many "hand me downs" along the way. The TMCs, the 6000s, the Flyer D901s, the MANs. I think FG gets shafted more than any other garage in the system. Not to mention we got snubbed out of the 1000 New Flyer order. And if we get them sometime in the future, they will be, you guessed it, Hand Me Downs! All in good humor Jajuan.

Not in matters of perspective I didn't if Kedzie is included in the equation and looking at it garage by garage instead of lumping both Kedzie and Chicago together to be able to say oh new equipment was sent to the west side every few years, glossing over one of the two was getting the shaft by getting others' hand me downs, going a decade or more before new equipment actually came. That's how Kedzie managed to have most of its fleet falling apart before getting new equipment over getting hand me downs. Same goes for 74th and 103rd. Both of those had to go a decade, in 74th's case 13-14 years, before getting new equipment and not other's hand me downs while Archer and 77th always managed to be up for new equipment allocation lists by dumping out older models on other garages every few years. And as pointed out by Busjack, for 74th that initially was only set at 30 to replace the worst 30 6000s that couldn't be fixed. Looking over the previous decade to decade and a half, yes Kedzie can be placed in the argument because remember the standard FTA service life for a transit bus is supposed to be 12 years. And as pointed out again by Busjack, Kedzie lost its 6000s to FG for 5300s, which as I recall was between a year to 18 months into the Nova order. The 6000s it did get back after the Americanas were gone from there were from the older of the 6000s fleet just as the third return of 6000s there in the swap with 74th happens to be. The only difference is in the case of the 74th swap, most of Kedzie's fleet was relatively new.