Northern Indiana Transit

[Busjack]

...

I would really appreciate ideas you could send re: public transit as I want to write about it and be an advocate of it. I live about a two hour drive east of Chicago, but use a lot of public transit systems all over the country as part of my job as a contract driver (getting back to northern IN).

I started another topic, since this wasn't Chicago area, per se. Since you mention you are from Northern Indiana, are you from that part of the state (Lake, Porter, LaPorte, and St. Joseph counties) involved in the Regional Transit District or Regional Bus Authority (depending on what they call it this week) controversy, which seems to be even a bigger mess than what we have in Illinois? With some Lake County politicians looking to Pace as a "role model," I really wonder if they can straighten it out there.

If you want more information about that, try this search on nwi.com (I had to tweak it to get it in reverse chronological order).

[crosstowntravel]

Busjack, Thanks for your reply. I am from Elkhart County and actually only getting into transit controversies, etc. I started taking city transit when I lived in Colorado Springs a few years ago and then back about 12 years. Now, I'm taking it around the country because I have a contract driver job. I use public transit to get around after I've delivered these vehicles. I'll check out nwi.com that you gave. By the way, have you seen these smart phone apps (which I don't have) where you can see when the next bus is coming. check out citygoround.org.

[Busjack]

Busjack, Thanks for your reply. I am from Elkhart County ...

I guess you are one county over from the area I described, and that county is also the reason why South Bend is still in the eastern time zone, even though St. Joseph and the South Shore wanted to move to the central.

By the way, have you seen these smart phone apps (which I don't have) where you can see when the next bus is coming. check out citygoround.org.

I only use the desktop versions of BusTracker and WebWatch.

[qwantae]

I guess you are one county over from the area I described, and that county is also the reason why South Bend is still in the eastern time zone, even though St. Joseph and the South Shore wanted to move to the central.I only use the desktop versions of BusTracker and WebWatch.

South Shore RR should make an extension to Benton Harbor/ St. Joseph or maybe Kalamazoo, MI. Anyone agree?

[artthouwill]

South Shore RR should make an extension to Benton Harbor/ St. Joseph or maybe Kalamazoo, MI. Anyone agree?

I think Amtrak does a good enough job.

[Busjack]

South Shore RR should make an extension to Benton Harbor/ St. Joseph or maybe Kalamazoo, MI. Anyone agree?

Also, you would then have the problem of trying to get three states to subsidize it, and someone to extend the electric overhead. What you are implying is another branch northeast of Michigan City, and NICTD is having enough trouble getting the Michigan City bypass and West Lake Corridor any traction (to use a play on words).

In a side note, the minutes indicate that the work to bypass Kensington is about to begin.

[artthouwill]

Also, you would then have the problem of trying to get three states to subsidize it, and someone to extend the electric overhead. What you are implying is another branch northeast of Michigan City, and NICTD is having enough trouble getting the Michigan City bypass and West Lake Corridor any traction (to use a play on words).

In a side note, the minutes indicate that the work to bypass Kensington is about to begin.

Since I was not at the meeeting, can someone explain how this bypass is supposed to work? Most NICTD trains stop at Kensington anyway AND no matter which way you slice it, SS trains will have to cross the CN tracks. The only thing I saw in those minutes is the cost of resignaling for the CN trains as well as SS (not so sure about resignaling for Metra).

[Busjack]

Since I was not at the meeeting, can someone explain how this bypass is supposed to work? Most NICTD trains stop at Kensington anyway AND no matter which way you slice it, SS trains will have to cross the CN tracks. The only thing I saw in those minutes is the cost of resignaling for the CN trains as well as SS (not so sure about resignaling for Metra).

The impression I got from prior minutes was that somehow the South Shore would connect directly to the ME express tracks and not stop at Kensington. The current setup has the trackage narrowing at Kensington and the South Shore trains stopping on the east side of the station, regardless of direction of travel. NICTD has been complaining that if they don't hit the meet on time, they have to wait for Metra to clear the junction. At least going northbound, after clearing the CN freight tracks, the South Shore would go directly into the northbound express track.

[trainman8119]

The impression I got from prior minutes was that somehow the South Shore would connect directly to the ME express tracks and not stop at Kensington. The current setup has the trackage narrowing at Kensington and the South Shore trains stopping on the east side of the station, regardless of direction of travel. NICTD has been complaining that if they don't hit the meet on time, they have to wait for Metra to clear the junction. At least going northbound, after clearing the CN freight tracks, the South Shore would go directly into the northbound express track.

The SS trains actually use both sides of the platform at Kensington. Actually, all trains can go to either side, since there are enough crossovers in the interlocking to sufficiently move things through, although many dispatchers still haven't figured that out since the Kensington tower closed.

Just north of the station (about 113th street), the railroad goes from 2 to 4 tracks (or 4 to 2 depending on direction). Currently, the South Shore comes off their railroad on a single track across the CNIC tracks and onto the Metra Main Line. This is just south of the station platform. There is a 10MPH speed on that section of track and it takes them forever to get over that short span. I know that the plan is for the Shore trains to bypass Kensington altogether. It is feasable that they could actually be routed over the CNIC tracks to north of the platform, where this is an access to the Metra tracks from the CNIC. It would take putting some wires over the westernmost track and to that switch and putting a switch from the "ladder track" to the CNIC track to make all of this possible.

Metra controls the operations of the interlocking at Kensington, including the freight traffic. They would be able to control all of the operation. They would still have to wait to for Metra traffic to clear to go northbound, but it is possible that when there is southbound overload, they could be routed around the station more easily.

[artthouwill]

The SS trains actually use both sides of the platform at Kensington. Actually, all trains can go to either side, since there are enough crossovers in the interlocking to sufficiently move things through, although many dispatchers still haven't figured that out since the Kensington tower closed.

Just north of the station (about 113th street), the railroad goes from 2 to 4 tracks (or 4 to 2 depending on direction). Currently, the South Shore comes off their railroad on a single track across the CNIC tracks and onto the Metra Main Line. This is just south of the station platform. There is a 10MPH speed on that section of track and it takes them forever to get over that short span. I know that the plan is for the Shore trains to bypass Kensington altogether. It is feasable that they could actually be routed over the CNIC tracks to north of the platform, where this is an access to the Metra tracks from the CNIC. It would take putting some wires over the westernmost track and to that switch and putting a switch from the "ladder track" to the CNIC track to make all of this possible.

Metra controls the operations of the interlocking at Kensington, including the freight traffic. They would be able to control all of the operation. They would still have to wait to for Metra traffic to clear to go northbound, but it is possible that when there is southbound overload, they could be routed around the station more easily.

If I remember correctly, once upon a time the Kensington station was a dual platform station, similar to 57th and 59th, and the station entrance was directly under the tracks accessible from 115th street in the middle of the viaduct. Certainly that setup would have made for speedier access, but under the current scenario, usually only one NB train can pass through at a time. I have been on the SS when two NB trains can pass through, Metra on the SB track and SS on the NB, but we would have to sit and let the Metra cross in front to access the express track first. I have also seen a NB express Metra on track 1 and a NB SS on track 4, seemingly racing to get near the 71st street crossover. If the SS train wins the race, it is a short delay for the Metra train, which has to slow down anyway to crossover, but Metra seemingly always gives its trains precedent over SS no matter how illogical it may be to do so.

This new bypass still won't solve the problem since Metra still controls the signals. It would just mean the SS trains will have a separate NB track to sit on while Metra gives its train priority to the express track north of 115th. If anything, it seems a second track needs to be built to cross the CN tracks from Metra to SS. This would eliminate the need for a NB SS train having to wait for a SB SS train to clear the junctiom before proceeding through.

[Busjack]

If I remember correctly, once upon a time the Kensington station was a dual platform station, similar to 57th and 59th, and the station entrance was directly under the tracks accessible from 115th street in the middle of the viaduct. Certainly that setup would have made for speedier access, but under the current scenario, usually only one NB train can pass through at a time.

The earliest I rode the South Shore in that area was in 1968, so it wasn't at least since then. Obviously, a dual platform would seem to make more sense, but apparently neither railroad seems to want it.

This new bypass still won't solve the problem since Metra still controls the signals. It would just mean the SS trains will have a separate NB track to sit on while Metra gives its train priority to the express track north of 115th. If anything, it seems a second track needs to be built to cross the CN tracks from Metra to SS. This would eliminate the need for a NB SS train having to wait for a SB SS train to clear the junctiom before proceeding through.

It seems like SS takes responsibility for its own meets, in that the minutes reflect changing the weekend schedule because of problems with meets in various single track portions east of Gary.If this were a real problem, I suppose it would be addressed as part of the project.