Railwaymodeler Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Today I noticed ITTF radios in several North Divison buses. Apparently this means "Illinois Terrorist Task Force". No one I asked seemed to know much about them, other than not every unit has one yet. Didn't have a camera on me to get a pic, but they are just behind the front door on the wall, and appears to be a locked cabinet with a radio set inside. Wonder how much taxpayer money is being wasted this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Today I noticed ITTF radios in several North Divison buses. Apparently this means "Illinois Terrorist Task Force". No one I asked seemed to know much about them, other than not every unit has one yet. Didn't have a camera on me to get a pic, but they are just behind the front door on the wall, and appears to be a locked cabinet with a radio set inside. Wonder how much taxpayer money is being wasted this time? Oh come now. While I appreciate we want our elected officials to be fiscally responsible, we still should take care of flippantly dismissing something as a waste of money. And by the way that state organization is the Illinois Terrorism Task Force. Now while terrorism may appear unlikely in Illinois, putting some diligence in being prepared for that particular worst scenario actually improves our public agencies' preparedness for the more everyday emergencies that may occur from time to time just from further streamlining communications between local agencies. Take Chicago's 911 command center for example. So I wouldn't dismiss this particular item out of hand so quickly from that side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Today I noticed ITTF radios in several North Divison buses. Apparently this means "Illinois Terrorist Task Force". No one I asked seemed to know much about them, other than not every unit has one yet. Didn't have a camera on me to get a pic, but they are just behind the front door on the wall, and appears to be a locked cabinet with a radio set inside. Wonder how much taxpayer money is being wasted this time? The Pace Minutes (including last month) have indicated that the 20 year old radios currently in buses, which also transmit WebWatch data, were junk, and Pace was switching over to the Illinois StarCom21 radio system. The February Minutes note: The StarCom radio implementation also continued moving forward. Mr. Ross noted that Aurora and Heritage garage operators can now talk with dispatch, something they could not do previously. So, I guess North is next. The former lousy radio coverage was probably a reason for some ghost buses on WebWatch. Other minutes indicated that the advantage of going on the state system was that there were more relay antennas. As usual, some radio reference has the ids for each Pace station. If that list is correct based on fleet numbers, it appears that the radios were installed on Aurora, Naperville, Wheaton, and Westmont buses, as well as some base units. I guess the only thing strange was that the state put on strange letters to identify it as a state system. The best I can figure out searching ITTF is that it did get Homeland Security grants for interoperable radio communications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Oh come now. While I appreciate we want our elected officials to be fiscally responsible, we still should take care of flippantly dismissing something as a waste of money. And by the way that state organization is the Illinois Terrorism Task Force. Now while terrorism may appear unlikely in Illinois, putting some diligence in being prepared for that particular worst scenario actually improves our public agencies' preparedness for the more everyday emergencies that may occur from time to time just from further streamlining communications between local agencies. Take Chicago's 911 command center for example. So I wouldn't dismiss this particular item out of hand so quickly from that side of things. I don't mean our elected officials, and besides, asking them to be fiscally responsible is like asking a dolphin to walk cross country. I mean the garage management at North. Employee morale is very low around here, and talking to friend who drive for North today, the overall thinking is "OK, now how are these going to be used to harass employees?". Plus after an incident where a driver runs her mouth in the garage about how much she hates a particular handicapped passenger, with a number of witnesses to this, and then mysteriously, a week later, said passenger is falsely accused of spitting on the driver, and found not guilty by a judge who had some harsh words for the driver as well, I have to wonder if this is something that will be used for its intended purpose or not. After all, accompanying the lady I just mentioned to court each time, as moral support, every time I got on that driver's bus thereafter, she would activate the DriveCam and have the police remove me, inventing reasons to the police. Being a former WPD employee, and speaking to a deputy chief about this, his feelings are that North knows they are on a very fine line nowadays, and with the number of individuals, driver and passenger, suing them, this may end up being used to intimidate or discredit certain people. In short, Illinois corruption, as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 ... In short, Illinois corruption, as usual. Read above, no. Paranoia, yes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 There is a difference between "paranoia" and "This is what has historically happened, given these events, what is the realistic worst that could happen. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 There is a difference between "paranoia" and "This is what has historically happened, given these events, what is the realistic worst that could happen. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". So, I suppose that Pace should remove Drive Cam, the other 7 cams per bus (undoubtedly also funded by Homeland Security), radios, Webwatch, etc., and just go back to 1984 (literally). Contemplate that alternative on the CTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 No. It's not the cameras I have an issue with. It is the people who decide to misuse them. Apparently ATU241 filed a complaint with the State of Illinois for what they felt was misuse of the DriveCams: http://www.state.il.us/ilrb/subsections/pdfs/ALJRdos/S-CA-09-193.pdf Plus I base a lot of my feelings on the matter on experiences I have had with Pace. I don't want to discuss too much of it in the open though. The GM of North used to be a pretty decent guy, I've known him for many years outside of Pace, then when he got transfered to North, he changed. Some years back he did mention chicagobus.org to me, so logically he does visit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 ... Apparently ATU241 filed a complaint with the State of Illinois for what they felt was misuse of the DriveCams: http://www.state.il.us/ilrb/subsections/pdfs/ALJRdos/S-CA-09-193.pdf ... I took a look at what you cited However, the only substance is a bunch of labor law jargon on whether using Drive Cam for disciplinary purposes is a mandatory subject of collective bargaining under the Illinois Public Employees Labor Relations Act, which the State Labor Relations Board Administrative Law Judge concluded that it was not. There is nothing there (nor would the Board have jurisdiction to determine) about civil liberties or the like. Thus two reasons why the popular conception that "a complaint was filed so there must be something to it" is false. Anyway, we are getting pretty far afield from the only possible relation to this topic, that Homeland Security has paid for some hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I don't speak "leagalese", but gathered that ATU 241 felt use of the DriveCams for disciplinary action was wrong. If anyone remembers, I was pondering if the buses had audio capability from the internal security cameras. The DriveCam I know does, but it looks like the security cameras do not. So now that question has an answer too. What I am curious of, is if all garages are getting these, or if the CTA is too. Around North, the only thing I can think of as a target of any value to a terrorist, would be Great Lakes Navel Training. Maybe - MAYBE - Six Flags, but they would also have to take the bus off course, which would amount to a suicide mission too. Otherwise, I doubt Waukegan or North Chicago has any real targets of any interest. Blowing up a bus to take out abandoned buildings in downtown Waukegan is not exactly something I think they would do. Of course, with street crime as it is in some parts of Waukegan, it may also be a "feel good" gesture to assure passengers Pace is taking steps to safeguard their buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 There is one on bus 6294 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 I don't speak "leagalese", but gathered that ATU 241 felt use of the DriveCams for disciplinary action was wrong. If anyone remembers, I was pondering if the buses had audio capability from the internal security cameras. The DriveCam I know does, but it looks like the security cameras do not. So now that question has an answer too. What I am curious of, is if all garages are getting these, or if the CTA is too. Around North, the only thing I can think of as a target of any value to a terrorist, would be Great Lakes Navel Training. Maybe - MAYBE - Six Flags, but they would also have to take the bus off course, which would amount to a suicide mission too. Otherwise, I doubt Waukegan or North Chicago has any real targets of any interest. Blowing up a bus to take out abandoned buildings in downtown Waukegan is not exactly something I think they would do. Of course, with street crime as it is in some parts of Waukegan, it may also be a "feel good" gesture to assure passengers Pace is taking steps to safeguard their buses. Even if Local 241 felt it was wrong, the Board ruled otherwise. Maybe there is an issue that CTA radios might not be compatible with the state system. You still seem hung up on that because Homeland Security paid for the state radio system, apparently so that the radios would be interoperable (a complaint on 9/11/2001 was that the police and fire radios in NYC didn't communicate with each other) this indicates a terrorist threat. Like what was pointed out before, the cameras at the CTA rapid transit stations and on the L cars that are slated for scrapping in the next five or so years were also funded by Homeland Security, but about all they will catch will be common thieves, rapists, and assailants, like the one who was given a long prison term for pushing the woman to her death while he was stealing an iPhone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Even if Local 241 felt it was wrong, the Board ruled otherwise. Maybe there is an issue that CTA radios might not be compatible with the state system. You still seem hung up on that because Homeland Security paid for the state radio system, apparently so that the radios would be interoperable (a complaint on 9/11/2001 was that the police and fire radios in NYC didn't communicate with each other) this indicates a terrorist threat. Like what was pointed out before, the cameras at the CTA rapid transit stations and on the L cars that are slated for scrapping in the next five or so years were also funded by Homeland Security, but about all they will catch will be common thieves, rapists, and assailants, like the one who was given a long prison term for pushing the woman to her death while he was stealing an iPhone. Regarding the third point: You do make a good point there. I hadn't even thought of the communication issue during 9/11. Having used to work in the IT department for the Waukegan Police, I do understand how having everyone on a common communication system is a very important concern. Even if an attack happened in Chicago, the whole region, including Waukegan and others further out, would need to be in the know, even if only for handling large-scale logistics operation. Frankly, there pretty much always is a terrorist threat, just not anything specific most of the time. North Korea could pull something at any time, so could some extremist group in the Middle East. Or some other group as yet unknown. Betting a scene like that out of the TV movie "Atomic Train" is what they want to avoid. Keep in mind that sometimes it is hard to grasp a concept or comprehend something written, like the ATU 241 document for me, which seems to been a problem ever since they changed a seizure medication I am on. This was perhaps four years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 ... Keep in mind that sometimes it is hard to grasp a concept or comprehend something written, like the ATU 241 document for me, which seems to been a problem ever since they changed a seizure medication I am on. This was perhaps four years ago. I wouldn't attribute it to that, as I said that it was a popular misconception that the fact that a complaint was filed means that it has merit. The news media is always guilty of that. Then they say the defendant didn't have a response, when, more than likely the defendant had not yet been served, and the usual course for a defendant is "no comment." And I certainly don't assume that anyone knows the intricacies of labor law. Especially not Ron Huberman or Rahm Emanuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Actually, it is hard for me to focus on long blocks of text. Ironic in a way, considering that I was reading on my own at age 2 (And for the record, repairing Lionel train motors at age 4), and was way ahead of my class in reading and comprehension. Bitterly ironic. But then, I don't have time for books as I did when I was a kid either. Either way, you're probably right about the radios, that while everyone hopes the worst does not happen, everyone should be prepared if it does. Imagine the media backlash if a large scale attack happened, and the same communication problems of 2001 existed over 10 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Not sure what happened in Boston yet, but radio reports were that one thing they did fairly immediately is shut down the transit system. So, the threat is not as farfetched as one would have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Sounds like bombs were planted, saw on the news that they found two more that had not detonated yet. Sadly, you're right. This is not a terribly farfetched idea. While I imagine any terrorist activity would more likely happen in Chicago than Waukegan, with the Navy base nearby, that could potentially be a target too. Makes me want to move to some remote location. Small towns are more my style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Reports today that as a result of the shootout with the Boston bombers, extending into Watertown, all of the Boston metropolitan area, including transit is under a lockdown. Hence, even if this wasn't Pace's original intent, the terrorism angle becomes even less farfetched. I'm sure Cambridge isn't that much different from Evanston with regard to a couple of terrorists hanging out incognito in a college town. One of those fugitives could have carjacked and headed into your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 So far, sounds like no driver has keys to the ITTF case. It appears to be locked, but I am not going to fiddle with it and find out! If it is under lock and key, what good does it do then? On the other hand, I assume keys will be issued when they finish installing them. With all the crazy stuff happening, just hope they don't need them before installations are finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 So far, sounds like no driver has keys to the ITTF case. It appears to be locked, but I am not going to fiddle with it and find out! If it is under lock and key, what good does it do then? On the other hand, I assume keys will be issued when they finish installing them. With all the crazy stuff happening, just hope they don't need them before installations are finished. Why would they let someone tamper with the radio by giving out keys? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 My understanding is that they would need the keys to use the radios, otherwise they sit there and do nothing in the event of a terrorist attack. Of course, they could just be receivers that tie into the IBS system too. On the other hand, the radios do look like big walkie-talkie types. Hopefully the point is moot and they are never needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Department of Homeland Security Officers were stationed on Sox 35th Red Line platform this afternoon. Couldn't take a pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Probably there because of the Boston Marathon bombing, may be a concern that sports venues could become a target, which makes sense. With all the recent events, knowing my luck, the rail industry will suddenly decide they need to use some retired motive power again or something and it will be hard to get pics due to heightened security. Imagine if Metra somehow brought back E8/9s but had enough security that no one would dare whip out a camera. Suck-O-Riffic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 My understanding is that they would need the keys to use the radios, otherwise they sit there and do nothing in the event of a terrorist attack. Of course, they could just be receivers that tie into the IBS system too. On the other hand, the radios do look like big walkie-talkie types. Hopefully the point is moot and they are never needed. At least from the 70s, buses have had panic buttons. I don't think it is assumed that if a driver is being attacked (even by the run of the mill criminal), the driver is going to get up and break the glass. CTA's emergency communications through the Orbital system are essentially text message. As I understand it (some bus driver could clarify), the driver hits a scroll button until the correct message appears next to the send button, and sends it. This pdf describes the system; note the following: The emergency silent alarm is used in situations where an overt act by a vehicle operator may result in a greater danger to the operator and/or the riders while a crime is taking place on board the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railwaymodeler Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Not what I meant. To clarify, if there is an attack somewhere in the area, the radios would be used to keep everyone on the same system to keep them in the know. If that is the case, then radios in a locked cabinet aren't going to do much good. I am aware of how the overt and covert alarms work. I do have the manual to the IBS system (Which Pace uses) in my collection. Why is it I get the overall feeling everything I say is being picked apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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