Minneapolis "t" Buses....

[Bus Driver Dude]

I saw what looked to be like a new D60LFR on the 552 this morning. If it is one of the new ones, I guess South is finally getting LFR's!

South and MJR garages are going to get the new D60LFR.

[Tcmetro]

I went looking for the new D60LFR's with no luck the other day. Ruter is still running plenty of the 1998 D60's though.

There have also been some fleet changes over the past few months.

• SW Transit recieved 4 new D4500CT's, numbered in the 90x series.
  
• Plymouth Metrolink has 2 more Gillig BRT's, 60018 and 60019.
  
• Maple Grove has some new coaches in the 6002x series.
  
• Some of the 30' Gilligs for Anoka County had conflicting numbers with the new Maple Grove coaches, and so far I have seen 60042.
  

SW Transit is also considering cutting the suburb-to-suburb commuter, route 634. On May 16th, stops were added at Best Buy HQ, Express Scripts, Ingenix, and Virtual Radiologic. This; however, did not add enough riders, so SW Transit is proposing to suspend service on July, 18th.

http://swtransit.org/ROUTE_634_GOLDEN_TRIANGLE_EXPRESS.html

[MVTArider]

SW Transit is also considering cutting the suburb-to-suburb commuter, route 634. On May 16th, stops were added at Best Buy HQ, Express Scripts, Ingenix, and Virtual Radiologic. This; however, did not add enough riders, so SW Transit is proposing to suspend service on July, 18th.

http://swtransit.org/ROUTE_634_GOLDEN_TRIANGLE_EXPRESS.html

Oohh... I'm shocked... like we didn't see that coming.

I've noticed Cedar Grove has had more cars lately during the weekdays, maybe for the new casino, ahem, I mean BlueXpress reverse commute service.

EDIT: Also I've updated the MVTA retired bus roster with some old fleet info I just happened to get my hands on ;)

[Tcmetro]

I didn't expect much to come from the 634 either. It is too hard to attempt to serve a market like Burnsville-Eden Prairie with a 1-trip bus route. There would probably be much more riders if there was some sort of network set up in the area (such as BRT on 35W and American Bl), because more people could access the routes.

I wonder how the BlueXpress reverse commute is doing. There are some improvements to be made, IMO. Such as better connections from the park and ride into Shakopee. There are a few industrial parks around there that could potentially attract some riders. The local services (496 and 498) need to be modified for that to happen. It would probably do Shakopee some good to redesign those routes; AFAIK, they do not get a lot of riders, resulting in high subsidies.

Nice to see some of the old buses added to the roster. Interestingly enough, the other week I was watching MI-5 and saw the MVTA RTS bus. I knew I had seen it on the internet, and finally found it in the CPTDB thread. I never knew MVTA had RTS's.

[Bus Driver Dude]

I went looking for the new D60LFR's with no luck the other day. Ruter is still running plenty of the 1998 D60's though.

You will be hard press for find some. There is only one 2011 D60LFR running out of South Garage. It is my understanding they will be trickling in all summer.

The 2011 Gilligs BRT Low Floors will be numbered 1240-1344.

[MVTArider]

You will be hard press for find some. There is only one 2011 D60LFR running out of South Garage. It is my understanding they will be trickling in all summer.

The 2011 Gilligs BRT Low Floors will be numbered 1240-1344.

1240-1344, so then we're getting 105 this year? I only saw an option for 26 exercised, must have missed one a while back. Wow, I'm glad I've been getting shots of the older Phantoms while I can. Also on the subject, I was riding by South the other day and every single bus out front was a GILLIG LF/BRT. I guess that's going to be commonplace once the 500/600s go.

Also speaking of shots:

[Tcmetro]

Thanks for the info about the Gilligs and New Flyers, Bus Driver Dude!

In response to MVTArider, the Met Council doesn't have to approve buses that are part of the order of 314 buses. They only have to approve the options because they have to designate money to buses that weren't budgeted, AFAIK. It looks like there are 168 Gilligs from 1999 (actually more like 150-155, some of the 690's and 700's aren't on the roster) that need replacement this year, so if only 105 are on order then perhaps the fleet size is being reduced. After the order of 105, there will be 16 left in the order, plus the 26 options is 42 buses. 45 buses will need to be replaced next year, so more options will need to be bought, or another bid will need to be placed.

There are 250 Gillig Phantoms from 2001-2003 that will need replacement in 2013-2015, plus the 3 LF's from 2002 and the 5 LF's from 2005. Given a shortage on the order of about 50 buses or so this year (if we don't get the options this year), we could see another order of about 310 buses. Of course, Metro Transit could replace some of the 40' buses with artics, so who knows right now?

Long story short, the high floors will be gone in a few years, so I guess we can appreciate them while they're here! Plus we will have the New Flyer D60's until 2018! B)

[Tcmetro]

Thanks for the pics MVTArider!

I've also updated the Metro Transit roster on the CPTDB wiki.

http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Minneapolis-St._Paul_Metro_Transit

I'll have to get some rides in on the 1999 D60LF's before they're gone. They're my favorite buses in the fleet!

[Busjack]

I see that 3236 does not have the yellow "snout" that others like 3251 have. Any reason for the difference?

[Bus Driver Dude]

It is my understanding that the only buses that are being retired are the 500's series. That might change if major cuts happen in 2012.

[Tcmetro]

I see that 3236 does not have the yellow "snout" that others like 3251 have. Any reason for the difference?

The 323x series was delivered in 2007, before the new paint scheme was put in place in 2008. Many of the 700's through the 1000's (Gillig Phantoms) have been repainted, as well as some of the 3100's (D60's). The 3200's (D60's) will likely be repainted when they are overhauled. The buses delivered in 1999 and before were not repainted.

[Tcmetro]

To provide an update to our Chicago-area members, there are some potentially serious issues happening with transit at the moment:

• The Minnesota state government has shut down because a budget could not be agreed upon. Transit services will run until the reserves are empty, which only gives them 1-2 months to continue running. The state should have a budget before the reserves are gone; however, the possibility that the budget issue is drawn out is still present.
  
  Here is a general article about the shut down: http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/124824189.html
  
  
• Even though Gov. Dayton vetoed the bill that would cut the state's transit funding by $109 million, without a budget in place, no one really knows what will happen. Metro Transit has begun planning for cuts to transit, which at the worst would include a 25 or 50 cent fare increase and a 25% service cut.
  
  Here is a Met Council page about meetings: http://www.metrocouncil.org/newsletter/transit2011/TransitHearingsJun23.htm
  
  Here is a presentation, which provides figures and maps about the cuts: http://www.metrocouncil.org/media/2011/TransitReductionPlanningJun27.pdf
  
  And here is a video of the presentation, and following comments by the Transportation Committee (click on the second item, under VII: Information in the video box): http://metrocouncil.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=1005
  
  
• As can be seen in the presentation linked above, the focus of the conceptual plan would eliminate most of the outer suburban express routes, and some of the local suburban and crosstown routes. Other crosstown routes would see large reductions in service, while most of the urban radial network would see minor cuts of under 25% of current service.
  

[Busjack]

To provide an update to our Chicago-area members, there are some potentially serious issues happening with transit at the moment:

...

Sounds like everything is going to "h e double hockey sticks" everywhere at the moment.

I certainly can't figure out the maps in the PowerPoint, but "you know what" probably won't hit the fan until they say what specific routes will be cut.

Over here, the news said that Governor Jello signed the state budget in the nick of time, but still no indication how or if they are going to eat into the $8 billion backlog of bills, including what is owed transit under the RTA bonding fiasco I mentioned in the MCTS thread.

[Tcmetro]

I was able to figure out most of the routes and posted them on Minnescraper. I will repost them here:

Peak routes eliminated: 39, 111, 118, 133, 135, 144, 252, 261, 262, 272, 275, 288, 294, 350, 361, 364, 365, 375, 415, 417, 452, 467, 542, 552, 558, 568, 578, 579, 587, 652, 670, 671, 672?, 673?, 674, 677, 679?, 762, 767, 811, 824, 854, 860

All day routes eliminated: 23, 27, 32, 75, 87, 115, 219, 223, 225, 227, 538, 604, 615, 705, 716, 801, 805, 831

Route segments eliminated: 5F on 26th Av N, 7CD on Plymouth Av N and Washington Av N, 14N on 36th Av N and Regent Av N, 22 south of downtown (replaced by a shuttle from 38th St LRT to VA Med Ctr LRT), 46 east of 46th St LRT, 62 north of Little Canada, 65 on Selby Av, 250 north of 95th Av, 260 east of Rosedale, 265 north of Maplewood Mall, 270 north of Maplewood Mall, 477V between Apple Valley and Lakeville, 589 south of 98th St, 597 west of 35W, 667E west of Texas Av, 675 west of Plymouth Rd, 766 will be Downtown-Noble/610 only, 850N to Riverdale

These would be the remaining routes:

More than 25% reductions: 22, 46, 65, 70, 80, 134, 265, 535, 539, 540, 589, 675, 765, 766

Less than 25% reductions: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20?, 21, 25, 50?, 53?, 54, 59, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, 68, 71, 74, 84, 94?, 113, 114, 134, 141?, 146, 156, 250, 260, 264, 270, 351, 353, 355, 515, 553, 554, 643, 649, 663, 665, 667, 668, 717, 721, 722, 723, 724, 755, 756, 758, 760, 761, 763, 764, 825, 850, 852

All of the suburban transit operators (MVTA, SW Transit, etc.) would not be cut, because they do not receive state general fund appropriations.

Obviously, these are very preliminary plans (no restructurings or specifics mentioned), and I would imagine that people in the suburbs will not be receptive to their buses being eliminated. I guess we will learn more as the meetings take place or the budget issue is resolved.

[artthouwill]

I was able to figure out most of the routes and posted them on Minnescraper. I will repost them here:

Peak routes eliminated: 39, 111, 118, 133, 135, 144, 252, 261, 262, 272, 275, 288, 294, 350, 361, 364, 365, 375, 415, 417, 452, 467, 542, 552, 558, 568, 578, 579, 587, 652, 670, 671, 672?, 673?, 674, 677, 679?, 762, 767, 811, 824, 854, 860

All day routes eliminated: 23, 27, 32, 75, 87, 115, 219, 223, 225, 227, 538, 604, 615, 705, 716, 801, 805, 831

Route segments eliminated: 5F on 26th Av N, 7CD on Plymouth Av N and Washington Av N, 14N on 36th Av N and Regent Av N, 22 south of downtown (replaced by a shuttle from 38th St LRT to VA Med Ctr LRT), 46 east of 46th St LRT, 62 north of Little Canada, 65 on Selby Av, 250 north of 95th Av, 260 east of Rosedale, 265 north of Maplewood Mall, 270 north of Maplewood Mall, 477V between Apple Valley and Lakeville, 589 south of 98th St, 597 west of 35W, 667E west of Texas Av, 675 west of Plymouth Rd, 766 will be Downtown-Noble/610 only, 850N to Riverdale

These would be the remaining routes:

More than 25% reductions: 22, 46, 65, 70, 80, 134, 265, 535, 539, 540, 589, 675, 765, 766

Less than 25% reductions: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20?, 21, 25, 50?, 53?, 54, 59, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, 68, 71, 74, 84, 94?, 113, 114, 134, 141?, 146, 156, 250, 260, 264, 270, 351, 353, 355, 515, 553, 554, 643, 649, 663, 665, 667, 668, 717, 721, 722, 723, 724, 755, 756, 758, 760, 761, 763, 764, 825, 850, 852

All of the suburban transit operators (MVTA, SW Transit, etc.) would not be cut, because they do not receive state general fund appropriations.

Obviously, these are very preliminary plans (no restructurings or specifics mentioned), and I would imagine that people in the suburbs will not be receptive to their buses being eliminated. I guess we will learn more as the meetings take place or the budget issue is resolved.

Some very deep cuts. I use to use the 22 south of downtown from near the VA to Lake and Cedar.

I remember when I lived in the Twin Cities, the LRT and the North Star lines were heavily opposed. I also remember the strike of 2004 which put a strain on the area as a whole and me in particular. Some people don't view transit as the necessity that it is, and it seems to be prevalent all across the country, yet the largest urban areas are most affected. And to think the Twin Cities don't have quite the infrastructure that a New York or Chicago has, what does that say about us (Chicago). Even Milwaukee (in another post) is feeling the strains of cutting service. Even though the economy is the easy scapegoat, remember Chicago had service cuts and fare increases during a booming economy in the 90s. Yet people don't seem to understand that transit is important to local economies.

Question TC. If the budget were approved by the governor, I would assume that service cuts would not be as severe, or is this based on an approved budget minus the $100 plus million funding?

[Tcmetro]

Some very deep cuts. I use to use the 22 south of downtown from near the VA to Lake and Cedar.

I remember when I lived in the Twin Cities, the LRT and the North Star lines were heavily opposed. I also remember the strike of 2004 which put a strain on the area as a whole and me in particular. Some people don't view transit as the necessity that it is, and it seems to be prevalent all across the country, yet the largest urban areas are most affected. And to think the Twin Cities don't have quite the infrastructure that a New York or Chicago has, what does that say about us (Chicago). Even Milwaukee (in another post) is feeling the strains of cutting service. Even though the economy is the easy scapegoat, remember Chicago had service cuts and fare increases during a booming economy in the 90s. Yet people don't seem to understand that transit is important to local economies.

Question TC. If the budget were approved by the governor, I would assume that service cuts would not be as severe, or is this based on an approved budget minus the $100 plus million funding?

Many cities all across the country aren't doing too well. In Seattle a 17% service cut is being considered and in Stockton, CA Sunday service is being considered for elimination.

In the Midwest service cuts are especially painful because many TA's don't cover large areas of the metro, versus on the West Coast where coverage is excellent. Add that with the general disinvestment in rail transit in the Midwest (only Minneapolis, Chicago, St. Louis, and Cleveland have rail), and it becomes more apparent that the majority of the public does not consider transit to be an important issue (despite all the complaints about traffic congestion). Even when rail transit is considered, Chicago has had little investment (besides rehabbing all of the L's), St. Louis and Cleveland are progressing quite slow (if at all) and the bus networks are stagnate, and Minneapolis is only just moving along. In Milwaukee the political aspect is especially blatant, where the governor was the former county commissioner and is purposely targeting transit.

I believe that the budget that was originally proposed by the Republicans would have cut about $5 billion, including $109 million to transit. Dayton vetoed the transportation bill, and I don't believe a replacement bill was put in place. No one knows what kind of cuts (or tax increases) will take place, so I guess anything is possible at the moment.

[artthouwill]

Many cities all across the country aren't doing too well. In Seattle a 17% service cut is being considered and in Stockton, CA Sunday service is being considered for elimination.

In the Midwest service cuts are especially painful because many TA's don't cover large areas of the metro, versus on the West Coast where coverage is excellent. Add that with the general disinvestment in rail transit in the Midwest (only Minneapolis, Chicago, St. Louis, and Cleveland have rail), and it becomes more apparent that the majority of the public does not consider transit to be an important issue (despite all the complaints about traffic congestion). Even when rail transit is considered, Chicago has had little investment (besides rehabbing all of the L's), St. Louis and Cleveland are progressing quite slow (if at all) and the bus networks are stagnate, and Minneapolis is only just moving along. In Milwaukee the political aspect is especially blatant, where the governor was the former county commissioner and is purposely targeting transit.

I believe that the budget that was originally proposed by the Republicans would have cut about $5 billion, including $109 million to transit. Dayton vetoed the transportation bill, and I don't believe a replacement bill was put in place. No one knows what kind of cuts (or tax increases) will take place, so I guess anything is possible at the moment.

Well at least the Twin Cities is in line for a New Starts grant that the Feds are giving out, based on this article from Metro Magazine. It is a list of transit agencies in line for this money: Chicago ain't on it.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/planning/planning_environment_12798.htm

[anfboymn]

Spotted 3352 at the South Garage this morning.

[Tcmetro]

3350 was on the 146 this morning!

[anfboymn]

And now 3354 has been delivered!

[Tcmetro]

So yesterday I was finally successful in riding a 3350-series bus.

3350 was on the 111, then 3355 came by on the 113. The new buses have the same seats as the 3330-series, and have the squared windows on the doors. A little later, I saw 3357 on the 597 in downtown.

I guess the 1999 D60LF's will be gone soon, then. I saw one running on the 114 yesterday afternoon.

[Bus Driver Dude]

The 2011 Gillig BRT buses are starting roll in.

I guess the 1999 D60LF's will be gone soon, then. I saw one running on the 114 yesterday afternoon.

The 500 and 3000 buses will be retired and placed in storage for State Fair use.

[anfboymn]

I saw MG07 all white, no signage or anything. Just sitting in the south garage parking lot. It looked very tired.

[Tcmetro]

Just walked around Heywood, and the new BRT's are in! 1141, 1143, 1144, and 1145 where their along with 3358 and 3359. :)

[MVTArider]

Just walked around Heywood, and the new BRT's are in! 1141, 1143, 1144, and 1145 where their along with 3358 and 3359.

Um, did you mean 1241, etc? Otherwise their numbering scheme is really messed up I saw a couple D60LFs parked on the 494 side at South today, and a few D60s around back. I'll have to try going by and getting a photo or two if possible from the frontage road.

I'm glad the 3350s are still using the same ASC vision seats that the 3330s use, I like that model.