Running Red

[BUSANGEL#1]

After Fox Chicago News did a special report on the CTA running red lights, I actually feel unsafe while a bus doing it. However it is understandable because a operator needs to be on time and some intersectons just have unbelievably long 2 minute lights. Some famous intersections where CTA is known for running the light include 95th/State(redline). Everyday I see between 3-8 packs of buses coming from the terminal running the light. Another intersection is 95th/Stony where #95E,28,X28,and 100 cross. I was on a 100 Express and it was a fast 6000 going 60mph eastbound on 95th. The light turned red 6 seconds prior to us crossing yet the driver kept going. Even though I feel unsafe I love riding on a fast bus because of the thrill. The city needs to do more to even out the traffic lights. It is a major problem especially during rush hour when you missed 5 lights and still waiting for another one. Sometimes you can't help but run the light.

[Busjack]

After Fox Chicago News did a special report on the CTA running red lights, I actually feel unsafe while a bus doing it. However it is understandable because a operator needs to be on time and some intersectons just have unbelievably long 2 minute lights. Some famous intersections where CTA is known for running the light include 95th/State(redline). Everyday I see between 3-8 packs of buses coming from the terminal running the light. Another intersection is 95th/Stony where #95E,28,X28,and 100 cross. I was on a 100 Express and it was a fast 6000 going 60mph eastbound on 95th. The light turned red 6 seconds prior to us crossing yet the driver kept going. Even though I feel unsafe I love riding on a fast bus because of the thrill. The city needs to do more to even out the traffic lights. It is a major problem especially during rush hour when you missed 5 lights and still waiting for another one. Sometimes you can't help but run the light.

If you are justifying bus drivers running into pedestrians or t-boning other cars, I don't buy your reasoning. A driver also has to to consider others using the street.

Looks like 95th & State also needs a red light camera, and the supervisor at 103rd passing on the traffic tickets to the drivers. I think that red light cameras may lead to rear end accidents if the bus (or other speeder) rear ends into the person who obeys the signal, but the law is that a driver is supposed to anticipate the red light.

CTA is complaining about the expense of personal injury lawsuits. This attitude won't help.

I was going to recommend that if you want a thrill, go to Great America. Too bad Riverview is closed.

Also, with this report and the one about ticket resellers and reported robberies, it appears that 95th is a hotbed of criminal activity of varying degrees of seriousness.

[Guest]

After Fox Chicago News did a special report on the CTA running red lights, I actually feel unsafe while a bus doing it. However it is understandable because a operator needs to be on time and some intersectons just have unbelievably long 2 minute lights. Some famous intersections where CTA is known for running the light include 95th/State(redline). Everyday I see between 3-8 packs of buses coming from the terminal running the light. Another intersection is 95th/Stony where #95E,28,X28,and 100 cross. I was on a 100 Express and it was a fast 6000 going 60mph eastbound on 95th. The light turned red 6 seconds prior to us crossing yet the driver kept going. Even though I feel unsafe I love riding on a fast bus because of the thrill. The city needs to do more to even out the traffic lights. It is a major problem especially during rush hour when you missed 5 lights and still waiting for another one. Sometimes you can't help but run the light.

When did this report on Fox air?

In the 7 years Ive operated CTA buses Ive done my share of running a red here and there but afterwards I soon realized that one day my luck just may run out. I got control of my driving habits and I think other CTA operators should take this to heart. Forget the schedule its not worth risking an accident, an injury or worse. Now that I operate Pace suburban I do not take these chances by any means, I let the light go, Its just not worth it. For those operators who make a habit of it, one day their luck will run out. Even if youre behind schedule dont do it.

[jajuan]

If you are justifying bus drivers running into pedestrians or t-boning other cars, I don't buy your reasoning. A driver also has to to consider others using the street.

Looks like 95th & State also needs a red light camera, and the supervisor at 103rd passing on the traffic tickets to the drivers. I think that red light cameras may lead to rear end accidents if the bus (or other speeder) rear ends into the person who obeys the signal, but the law is that a driver is supposed to anticipate the red light.

CTA is complaining about the expense of personal injury lawsuits. This attitude won't help.

I was going to recommend that if you want a thrill, go to Great America. Too bad Riverview is closed.

Also, with this report and the one about ticket resellers and reported robberies, it appears that 95th is a hotbed of criminal activity of varying degrees of seriousness.

I agree that CTA drivers running red lights is a serious issue, and there is no way I would find being on a bus running the red light thrilling. I'd be concerned not only about my own safety but also everyone else's as well. There are no seatbelts on the bus other than the drivers and not only that, just the size factor concerning a 40 or 60 ft bus alone is enough to give you pause. Who wants to run the risk of being hit by a vehicle that size going 60 mph if that speed estimate is true?

[Busjack]

When did this report on Fox air?

November 19. Here's the link. Of course, I saw it on actual TV.

[jajuan]

November 19. Here's the link. Of course, I saw it on actual TV.

Thanks for that link Busjack. I had seen a few drivers running red lights downtown here and there before and had chalked it up to a few bad drivers since most of the time I hadn't witnessed it during the times when I go downtown. I didn't realized it had gotten that bad. I do remember seeing the accident shown in the clip at 79th and Jeffery on the news. for those who didn't watch the clip it involved an Americana operating on the former 6 Jeffery Express hitting a 3 flat when the driver lost control. Just about the entire front of the building came off. And that was just from one bus hitting it. Now imagine that bus hitting a car or worse yet a person crossing the street and the damage or injury that could be done. Would anyone find a bus speeding through a red light thrilling now?

[Guest]

November 19. Here's the link. Of course, I saw it on actual TV.

Just 6 months before I left the CTA in 2005 I was operating Flxible #6098 80 Irving Pk EB @ Western. As I left the EB stop I continued when an suv darted out from a side street and stopped dead in my path. I slammed on the brakes as hard as I could but there was no chance of stopping in time, the bus didnt stop and I collided with the truck. It was a very horrifying experience colliding with another vehicle like that. Although the accident was not caused by anyone running a red light the collision itself was terrifying. But this is what could happen if a CTA bus were to run a red light with a vehicle entering the intersection.

[trainman8119]

There are some bad operators out there. I had the opportunity for awhile at the 93rd street station to see buses constantly go across the tracks without stopping...and in some cases not even slowing down. It took 3 reports to the CTA to see it stop. Seems the boys at 103 are a little bit more responsible these days. As for the red lights, it has always gone on and probably will as long as there is a premium on keeping schedules. I don't see much of it downtown, and on the whole, I think CTA drivers have gotten better over the years. That all said, it doesn't mean there aren't a few bad apples out there.

[nextstopchicago]

Believe it or not, it's legal for CTA buses to run red lights. I'd suggest that it not be done on the fly, but rather, easing through when no conflicting traffic is present.

[jajuan]

Believe it or not, it's legal for CTA buses to run red lights. I'd suggest that it not be done on the fly, but rather, easing through when no conflicting traffic is present.

didn't know that. And I bet FoxChicago didn't know that either when they did that report. If they did, they didn't mention it. Then again since this was Fox's legal correspondent who did the report, if this was truly the case he would have found the statute that supports this assertion. He's a thorough man when it comes to these matters so I doubt he would neglect to take the revelant governmental to task like he does the CTA or more specifically the guilty drivers who are endangering lives and safety. I apologize to everyone for my original attempt at sarcasm with this post which is why I edited it here.

[Busjack]

Believe it or not, it's legal for CTA buses to run red lights. I'd suggest that it not be done on the fly, but rather, easing through when no conflicting traffic is present.

I don't believe it. Why don't you post a link the the provision of state law that allows that? And why is the CITY sending red light camera tickets to the CTA? And why would both Pace and CTA want to spend money on traffic signal preemption if their drivers can drive through a red light legally? I have never seen a CTA bus with a siren. I have also just written an Illinois legal encyclopedia on traffic law offenses and saw nothing like this. You, like the Tribune, are probably talking about legal matters without doing any legal research. Here is a free link to the Illinois Compiled Statutes, so search that for us. If it exists, it probably will be in 625 ILCS 5 (Illinois Vehicle Code) or 70 ILCS 3605 (Metropolitan Transit Authority Act). Here is also a link to the Chicago Municipal Code, if you think that issuing the tickets is illegal. Possibly relevant is the provision "The driver of any vehicle shall obey the instructions of any applicable traffic-control device placed in accordance with the provisions of the traffic code, unless otherwise directed by a police officer or traffic control aide" (9-8-010).

P.S. I you want me to search this further, my rate is $40 an hour. Since you made the assertion, you prove it.

I sure hope you are not a bus driver.

[trainman8119]

I don't believe it. Why don't you post a link the the provision of state law that allows that? And why is the CITY sending red light camera tickets to the CTA? And why would both Pace and CTA want to spend money on traffic signal preemption if their drivers can drive through a red light legally? I have never seen a CTA bus with a siren.

Busjack, thank you for addressing this ridiculos statement. I wanted to say something, but I was afraid to set this joker off again without some backup. You, obviously, have better resources than I do to support what is right. Thank you.

[nextstopchicago]

Below is a quote from a poster in another forum - a yahoo groups forum on the CTA. The poster is acknowledged there as a CTA bus driver, and seems to be pretty credible in his understanding of rules and regulations:

>Actually, I believe CTA is not legally bound by red lights. However for

>good practical reasons (some people have a very hard time figuring out

>if there are "no intersecting cars in sight" and having buses running

>lights would encourage very dangerous behaviour in others) CTA has never

>admitted to, much less encouraged this.

>There are rights that one really should not exercise.

That's where I got my info. I have neither any reason to mistrust him on this, though admittedly it sounds somewhat unlikely, nor any easy way to back up his statement. I'll ask him if he has any further information.

[Guest]

Believe it or not, it's legal for CTA buses to run red lights. I'd suggest that it not be done on the fly, but rather, easing through when no conflicting traffic is present.

Regardless whether its legal or not I think everyone should have enough common sense to know that you dont run a red light no matter what youre driving.

[Busjack]

Below is a quote from a poster in another forum - a yahoo groups forum on the CTA. The poster is acknowledged there as a CTA bus driver, and seems to be pretty credible in his understanding of rules and regulations:

>Actually, I believe CTA ...

That doesn't sound like a reliable source to me. Anyone can put garbage on the Internet (as indicated by the Chris Benoit Wikipedia episode, or the debate now on The Score about releasing the list of names in the Mitchell Report 2 hours early, and then most of the names on the "list from sources" were not in the report). I also know some of the people in the Yahoo forums, and there is a lot of misinformation there. Note also, he said "I believe." Belief is not a substitute for the facts.

So, don't bother asking him again. Like I said, provide a link to a state statute or municipal ordinance.

Also, while not proof of what the law is, the empirical evidence (CTA accepting the tickets and passing them on to the drivers, firing one driver, and asking for TSP) sure doesn't support your assertion that running red lights is legal or that CTA believes that it is.

[Busjack]

A Tribune article on this today. Apparently, CTA isn't passing the fines on to the drivers any more.

[Guest]

A Tribune article on this today. Apparently, CTA isn't passing the fines on to the drivers any more.

Fox this morning showed #4479 without bike racks. Some pretty good footage of RTSs.

[santran]

CTA does not want a driver to run a red light because it is illegal, that is of course a good policy. Now they do allow passengers to stand forward of the standee line, that is also against the law. The CTA should put more buses on the streets when needed and both issues could be less freq. Meaning less overcrowding and the ability to keep to the schedual.

[nextstopchicago]

I think drivers should slide on late reds sometimes to keep on schedule. I don't think that creates safety issues.

I also think many of the red light cameras are catching buses that haven't run red lights. They've just entered a light at yellow, and they're longer than other vehicles, so they trip the camera despite not having run the light.

I certainly don't feel unsafe on buses running red lights. It's clear they've been doing it, yet they have a safety record far better than the typical driver in the city.

[Busjack]

I also think many of the red light cameras are catching buses that haven't run red lights. They've just entered a light at yellow, and they're longer than other vehicles, so they trip the camera despite not having run the light.

At least the Tribune story (and several others I have read in suburban papers) say that you have to cross the white line after the light turns red for the camera to catch you.

I've screeched the brakes on a yellow light as a precaution. Maybe that wasn't necessary.

In any event, the city pictures are supposed to be downloadable. I'm sure CTA brass, being in tight with the city, would contest any if there were grounds. Unless the CTA has taken on the role of being another of the city's revenue sources, which is possible.

[T8H5307A]

I've pulled up many times to intersections with red light cameras with the light red and I am making a service stop to pick up a customer and as i roll over the sensor area of the street, the freaking cameras are flashing! Mind you I haven't crossed the white line or anything just stopping to pick up people! I won't be surprised if I get called into the office for this eventually. Cicero/Washington Blvd is one spot I had this happen. Now I won't even stop over the sensors. i stop short and make the people walk back to me! Otherwise I don't chance those intersections with the camera. If the Don't Walk light is flashing I wait it out. If the intersection has the Don't Walk light with the countdown (which I think all the red light camera intersections should have this feature), then I will look at that and determine if I have enough time to make it, if not I sit it out!

[cta_44499_FG]

I've pulled up many times to intersections with red light cameras with the light red and I am making a service stop to pick up a customer and as i roll over the sensor area of the street, the freaking cameras are flashing! Mind you I haven't crossed the white line or anything just stopping to pick up people! I won't be surprised if I get called into the office for this eventually. Cicero/Washington Blvd is one spot I had this happen. Now I won't even stop over the sensors. i stop short and make the people walk back to me! Otherwise I don't chance those intersections with the camera. If the Don't Walk light is flashing I wait it out. If the intersection has the Don't Walk light with the countdown (which I think all the red light camera intersections should have this feature), then I will look at that and determine if I have enough time to make it, if not I sit it out!

Ditto.

[nextstopchicago]

At least the Tribune story (and several others I have read in suburban papers) say that you have to cross the white line after the light turns red for the camera to catch you.

Does it mean your front wheels cross the white line after red, or your back?

You may be right. I'm just asking.

[Busjack]

Does it mean your front wheels cross the white line after red, or your back?

You may be right. I'm just asking.

Don't have further details. What the two bus drivers above say seems illuminating, though.

[Guest ctafan630]

Does it mean your front wheels cross the white line after red, or your back?

You may be right. I'm just asking.

Does the CTA get the video that is also taken with the red light cameras? Wouldn't the video show the bus did not go through the intersection on the red?

I hate these red light cameras with a passion. The CTA should fight these tickets.