Yellow Line AA study open house

[Guest metralink]

anyone going to the yellow line AA study open house?

[Zol87]

Yeah, I'll be there. I think that an extension to Old Orchard as well as an Oakton stop and a south Evanston stop will increase ridership on the Yellow line significantly.

[Busjack]

This seems the best place to note that the Orange and Yellow Screen 2 presentations are up.

I'm somewhat surprised that they are limiting it to one alternative in each case, and relying on elevated, although the elevated structures look better than the ones to which we have become accustomed.

Anyway, the Pioneer Press indicates that anything may be at least 8 years away.

[BusHunter]

This seems the best place to note that the Orange and Yellow Screen 2 presentations are up.

I'm somewhat surprised that they are limiting it to one alternative in each case, and relying on elevated, although the elevated structures look better than the ones to which we have become accustomed.

Anyway, the Pioneer Press indicates that anything may be at least 8 years away.

So, for the Yellow line they want to make a single track north of Dempster to Old Orchard. i wonder why not a double track. Boardings should decrease at Dempster, because all of the traffic from the North will use the Old Orchard stop as well as the Niles North kids as well as the Old Orchard crowd. I think the demand alone would warrant a double track most likely in the future. As for the Orange line, with the train running under 63rd and 59th, it would be a great time to incorporate into the project, running the Belt railway under those streets as well. They have alot of 100 car freights that impede the traffic flow over there. I don't know who would ultimately be responsible for that part of the project whether it would be the city or Belt railway, but it would make the project even more fantastic for the commuters and residents of the SW side.

[Busjack]

With regard to one track into Old Orchard, the question would be if trains would run so frequently that there would be a "meet" between Dempster and there. I sort of doubt it.

The more interesting question is that since nothing is proposed to get the train itself closer to the shopping center (which might not be a good idea considering the potential of dead malls, not that Old Orchard is one) or the office complex north of Old Orchard Road, is what kind of shuttle system would be needed, and if this would form another source of CTA-Pace contention? The 54A bus doesn't seem to be a strong route in fulfilling that function at the moment.

Edit: I took out my first paragraph, because I misunderstood your Belt Ry point. Perhaps notable is that they didn't do anything about the Belt Ry. at 55th. If not a CREATE project, I'm not sure who would do it.

[BusHunter]

With regard to one track into Old Orchard, the question would be if trains would run so frequently that there would be a "meet" between Dempster and there. I sort of doubt it.

The more interesting question is that since nothing is proposed to get the train itself closer to the shopping center (which might not be a good idea considering the potential of dead malls, not that Old Orchard is one) or the office complex north of Old Orchard Road, is what kind of shuttle system would be needed, and if this would form another source of CTA-Pace contention? The 54A bus doesn't seem to be a strong route in fulfilling that function at the moment.

Edit: I took out my first paragraph, because I misunderstood your Belt Ry point. Perhaps notable is that they didn't do anything about the Belt Ry. at 55th. If not a CREATE project, I'm not sure who would do it.

I'm starting to think they intend to run every other train up there and possibly turn every other train at dempster. There would simply be too many trains to function on a single track in the rush up there. But with any new rapid transit project it will be more attractive to customers than the bus and it will be highly successful because it has no rail around it like the Pink or Green lines. Adding a stop at Oakton in downtown Skokie and possibly California in Evanston and the service gets attractive for local customers as well. The Skokie officials have to really be happy about this project, it will make them have the most rail transit rich community to live in that is a suburb in Chicago next to Oak Park and Evanston. One question that crosses my mind is that will they increase the platform length at dempster. It would seem all this would at least warrant four cars. As far as the Orange line point, you seem to understand my point in your 55th reference. Probably it would have been too complicated to do a full underpass there because the Orange line has been constructed there to pass the Belt railway with an elevated structure high enough to clear the freight traffic and you would have to dig there and possibly put the existing orange line structure in a delicate state. Not that it couldn't be done, but it would cost more money. Besides I don't think there was a project in the works to create fly-by's in 1993.

[Busjack]

One question that crosses my mind is that will they increase the platform length at dempster.

Something implied in this presentation, and more clearly stated in the consultant reports that Skokie commissioned, is that if the extension is to be grade separated at Dempster, the incline needed to do that would necessitate replacing the current Dempster station, relatively new as it is. So, extending the platform would be possible.

Someone else commented in another forum that it didn't seem to make sense to build the bus terminal in the apparent path of the extension, but elevating the tracks at that point would seem to obviate that concern.

[BusHunter]

Something implied in this presentation, and more clearly stated in the consultant reports that Skokie commissioned, is that if the extension is to be grade separated at Dempster, the incline needed to do that would necessitate replacing the current Dempster station, relatively new as it is. So, extending the platform would be possible.

Someone else commented in another forum that it didn't seem to make sense to build the bus terminal in the apparent path of the extension, but elevating the tracks at that point would seem to obviate that concern.

Does anyone think the #97 or #54A will continue to serve Dempster Yellow line terminal? I would think not, in fact there should be a terminal for Old Orchard Station for the #201's #205's, #97's, #54A's, and varous Pace routes like #208 that pass through the terminal and others that terminate there like #215. Back to your post. I'm forgetting, but was there any construction plans for a Dempster extension (platform lengths) to coinside with the construction of Oakton station? Somewhere I thought I heard something about that.

[Busjack]

Does anyone think the #97 or #54A will continue to serve Dempster Yellow line terminal? I would think not, in fact there should be a terminal for Old Orchard Station for the #201's #205's, #97's, #54A's, and varous Pace routes like #208 that pass through the terminal and others that terminate there like #215. Back to your post. I'm forgetting, but was there any construction plans for a Dempster extension (platform lengths) to coinside with the construction of Oakton station? Somewhere I thought I heard something about that.

I hadn't heard anything specific along the latter lines, only that there was enough room between Oakton and Searle Parkway for a longer platform, and that, as noted above, Dempster would have to be replaced. So, it is a matter of inferring 1+1=?.

You are probably right about a bus station at Old Orchard, although I don't remember anything specific mentioned in either source about that. I would also think that the functions of 54A and 97 should be rethought if the project progresses.

With regard to whether Pace would change its routings along the lines you suggest, the original North Shore restructuring proposal had a Phase 3, based on Pace providing BRT in that corridor, including, in effect, changing 215 into a Crawford route (starting around NEIU to feeding the BRT at Old Orchard), and essentially changing 226 to staying on Oakton, connecting with the BRT, and continuing east approximately as 215 does now. Those ideas quickly died with the BRT concept by the stage two workshops. One would wonder if Pace would revive them with the Oakton station and Old Orchard extension (I don't see why not).

250 would probably stay where it is, and there would be a question whether 626 would move up a stop.

[west towns]

would revive them with the Oakton station and Old Orchard extension (I don't see why not).

250 would probably stay where it is, and there would be a question whether 626 would move up a stop.

Dempster St #250 is in the first phase for ART according to Pace.

The issue with this study is the boundary 'only' goes north to Old Orchard. If you look at entire Skokie Valley with running a BRT north to Lake-Cook Road then it should matter where the transfer is located either at Dempster or Old Orchard.

As for the west side option, passengers would still be required to transfer to a bus negating the benefits of extending the rail option as there is a transfer penalty anyway.

Now what about putting in a BRT from Jefferson Park, running up to Foster, then onto the CNW ROW north connecting with the Swift at Dempster, then continuing to Old Orchard and then further north to Lake Cook. IF Northfield is going to be a problem, run it on the Edens

[Busjack]

Now what about putting in a BRT from Jefferson Park, running up to Foster, then onto the CNW ROW north connecting with the Swift at Dempster, then continuing to Old Orchard and then further north to Lake Cook. IF Northfield is going to be a problem, run it on the Edens

That was the phase 3 plan, which was dumped by Pace as noted above by the time the North Shore restructuring went to hearing.

Personally, I think getting 626 off the Edens and avoiding that congestion would make sense, but given that Pace has written that off, and most of the row has been converted to bike paths, I don't see this happening. Pace didn't even provide the "guaranteed ride home midday" it proposed at the second round of workshops to increase ridership on 626. About the only thing it dealt with was the comments that by focusing on the North Shore as then defined (Evanston, Wilmette, Skokie, and Lincolnwood), the plans then presented affected outlying areas (now covered by 422 and 423) without the consultants putting any thought into it. Thus, we got a result not that dissimilar to what jesi reports on the South restructuring.

[RIPTA42]

The more interesting question is that since nothing is proposed to get the train itself closer to the shopping center (which might not be a good idea considering the potential of dead malls, not that Old Orchard is one) or the office complex north of Old Orchard Road, is what kind of shuttle system would be needed, and if this would form another source of CTA-Pace contention? The 54A bus doesn't seem to be a strong route in fulfilling that function at the moment.

The potential for redevelopment of the Old Orchard Mall site would be a reason to bring it closer to the mall, since whatever replaces the mall could be planned around the station. The fact that the mall is still thriving is another good reason to push the alignment toward the mall.