CTA Union Concessions ?

[trainman8119]

There seems to be a clear conflict of interest here, unless it is made clear what managers Jefferson is complaining about losing? I can guess.

I am not sure what is being targeted here from the quote which would say this is a conflict of interest. However, I would agree that what he is saying in that too many managers don't know what they are managing. It is a big problem here now...all of the political hires vs someone who has a little knowledge. Similar to the fear people have when the oldest of pilots retires. The new guys are so trained and attached to computers that many will not be able to land a plane in the Hudson.

[Busjack]

I am not sure what is being targeted here from the quote which would say this is a conflict of interest. However, I would agree that what he is saying in that too many managers don't know what they are managing. It is a big problem here now...all of the political hires vs someone who has a little knowledge. Similar to the fear people have when the oldest of pilots retires. The new guys are so trained and attached to computers that many will not be able to land a plane in the Hudson.

I would agree that those kind of managers are a problem. However, I don't think Jefferson is complaining about that. I think he doesn't want managers who enable those portions of his membership who don't put in a full day's work (although the track inspectors who fit that category were probably in Kelly's local) let go.

I guess this is another example of my trying to be politically correct in language results in my being obtuse.

[cta_44499_FG]

The latest:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/01/cta-protesters--mostly-employees--hit-service-cuts.html

[RailBus63]

The CTA workers don't get it. Millions of us have been forced to accept furlough days that equal 3.5 percent or more of our pay, in addition to forgoing wage increases and paying far more for health care and other benefits in recent years. They all talk about their 'union brothers', but when push comes to shove, they are not willing to make personal sacrifices to save them. I hope they realize that those jobs are never coming back.

[cta_44499_FG]

The CTA workers don't get it. Millions of us have been forced to accept furlough days that equal 3.5 percent or more of our pay, in addition to forgoing wage increases and paying far more for health care and other benefits in recent years. They all talk about their 'union brothers', but when push comes to shove, they are not willing to make personal sacrifices to save them. I hope they realize that those jobs are never coming back.

I hope you're not implying that all of us "don't get it". There are many of us that do.

[RailBus63]

I hope you're not implying that all of us "don't get it". There are many of us that do.

You're right - I shouldn't have impled that, because I do believe there are many that do. Sorry.

It's just that we seem to see that type of knee-jerk response from union leaders over and over again when faced with cutbacks. I'm sure there is some managerial housecleaning that could be done, but that is not going to make up the funding difference. We need people to be adult at times like this and dispense with the accusations in the press. It's just a shame that many CTA workers are going to lose their jobs when theer is probably a compromise that could be worked out.

[New Flyer]

There are still things CTA can do to cut costs before running to the union. They could turn the following routes over to Pace

49a South Western have 1 bus that runs during rush hour, Pace handles the other runs

17 Westchester could be taken over by Pace 317

56a North Milwaukee operates with Pace 270

97 Skokie and 201-206 Evanston turn over to Pace North millions saved.

Empty concession stands at rail stations hundreds of thousands to be made

Abide by the contract and have all part-timers work Sat/Sun/Holidays as mandadted by Senate bill 1605 that was passed in 1983 as part of another CTA bailout so all full timers could have those days off and save on overtime. Theres still plenty for CTA to cut without violating the contract.

[jajuan]

This is one where I'm torn. While I'm upset that some form of compromise can't seem to be made, I can understand the CTA union workers side of it (and I'll stress WORKERS not the leaders) side of the situation because I happen to belong to a union through my own job. There are quite a number of hard working operators at Kedzie that I wouldn't want to see negatively impacted by this whole mess. They know the regulars who ride their routes and if they know that person is heading to work and missed getting to the stop before the bus pulled away, if it's safe they'll stop and let that person on. Or if they see that person heading to the stop, and that person's close enough, they'll wait if they feel it won't disrupt their schedule too much. They don't have to do these things, and might be risking faling behind and getting in trouble, but I just think it's going that extra mile to show good customer service, something we've said the service boards aren't necessarily committed to. I'm singling out Kedzie because it's my neighborhood garage and thus I encounter those routes a little more than those from other garages. But seeing some of the things they enounter and put up with, undoubtedly there are hardworking folks working what can be a tough job from across the system.

[BUSANGEL#1]

There are still things CTA can do to cut costs before running to the union. They could turn the following routes over to Pace

49a South Western have 1 bus that runs during rush hour, Pace handles the other runs

17 Westchester could be taken over by Pace 317

56a North Milwaukee operates with Pace 270

97 Skokie and 201-206 Evanston turn over to Pace North millions saved.

Empty concession stands at rail stations hundreds of thousands to be made

Abide by the contract and have all part-timers work Sat/Sun/Holidays as mandadted by Senate bill 1605 that was passed in 1983 as part of another CTA bailout so all full timers could have those days off and save on overtime. Theres still plenty for CTA to cut without violating the contract.

I agree but a correction 49A has 3 runs not only 1

[Busjack]

There are still things CTA can do to cut costs before running to the union. They could turn the following routes over to Pace

49a South Western have 1 bus that runs during rush hour, Pace handles the other runs

17 Westchester could be taken over by Pace 317

56a North Milwaukee operates with Pace 270

97 Skokie and 201-206 Evanston turn over to Pace North millions saved....

I have agreed with Pace running most of this, but with CTA turning over the subsidy money to do so. Remember, Pace is also cutting service. RTA could rejigger the discretionary 15% off the top.

There might be less of a subsidy needed, in that it usually appears that Pace is the lower cost carrier. It could run Eldos out of North Shore, and maybe integrate the Evanston routes with the North Shore/NW ones.

The RTA has the authority to coordinate service, but with it taking 9 votes to do so, won't.

[rmadisonwi]

There are still things CTA can do to cut costs before running to the union. They could turn the following routes over to Pace

49a South Western have 1 bus that runs during rush hour, Pace handles the other runs

17 Westchester could be taken over by Pace 317

56a North Milwaukee operates with Pace 270

97 Skokie and 201-206 Evanston turn over to Pace North millions saved.

Empty concession stands at rail stations hundreds of thousands to be made

I won't argue one way or the other whether it makes sense for CTA to operate certain routes in areas where Pace already has service, but if CTA did get rid of the above routes, then that would equate to less service on the street. Therefore, it would equate to fewer bus operators needing to be employed.

As for empty concession stands...well, if you hadn't noticed, a handful of retail enterprises have been experiencing some minor financial difficulties lately. Go down half the streets in this country, and you'll find empty concession stands, empty storefronts, etc. Heck, there's an empty space at CTA headquarters where Quiznos used to be (that one shut down). I saw a few "for lease" signs walking around the west loop.

In other words, there isn't hundreds of thousands to be made, because the folks that would be paying CTA said hundreds of thousands to set up shop, don't have that kind of cash right now. That is, ultimately, why CTA (and virtually every other transit agency, government, and many private enterprises in this country) are in the situation they're in.

[Busjack]

I'll throw this question onto the forum, since it appears that a couple of the most recent posters have some idea what is in the contract, and it fits with what New Flyer said about looking for places to economize:

Is there anything in the contract that prevents the CTA from "restructuring" the Midway and Blue Line (Jefferson Park and west) feeders into a community transit model, turning it over to a paratransit operator:

• As Booz Allen suggested in 1997, and
• As Pace did in Joliet with 510?

[Busjack]

BTW, doesn't this Stantis cartoon look awfully like a certain series of buses last seen sitting in the 77th yard?

[Guest]

I wish Pfleger and Jackson would just mind their own damn business and let the CTA handle the issues. Who cares what those two idiots think?? Sorry if I offend anyone but CTA drivers need to stand tough and stop crying to rainbow push and rev. pfleger.

Who the hell are they?? What are they going to do??

[jajuan]

I wish Pfleger and Jackson would just mind their own damn business and let the CTA handle the issues. Who cares what those two idiots think?? Sorry if I offend anyone but CTA drivers need to stand tough and stop crying to rainbow push and rev. pfleger.

Who the hell are they?? What are they going to do??

Granted CTA and the unions need to work this out without outside influences, but it's probably time for a coolout period as far as this particular topic goes. Starting to get dangerously too close to disrespecting men of the cloth. I'm not saying there has to be agreement with either of these two, because I can say for certain that I don't always do on a whole list of issues. We can still disagree with the men though without disrespecting the men's positions as ministers. Calling a minister an idiot and using profanity to express your opposing view to his position is crossing the line regardless of the level of credibility you think he has.

[Busjack]

I certainly won't talk about religion, but note that these are two who certainly did not meet a camera they did not like. The CTA Tattler made an ado about a letter one of its posters was going to send to Jackson, but, except for those who read the Tattler, my original reaction was why waste the time.

It similarly seems that Darrell Jefferson will say anything to get the press to take a dump. I wonder when we will see the first story about a CTA driver* going through/not going through a red light.

Especially after reading part IIIC of the arbitrator's decision, I'm sure we'll hear this kind of business for another two months, and then it will settle down.** You don't hear any more about the AFSCME people who were laid off, and then nobody being willing to reshelve the books at the Chicago Public Library.

__________

*The story will be about a bus, but like the headlines about SUVs causing an accident, the vehicle did not act on its own volition.

**Except, of course, if the May 2010 doomsday also mentioned materializes, but I find out hard to fathom that Quinn would shut down the whole state a couple of months before an election.

[Guest]

Granted CTA and the unions need to work this out without outside influences, but it's probably time for a coolout period as far as this particular topic goes. Starting to get dangerously too close to disrespecting men of the cloth. I'm not saying there has to be agreement with either of these two, because I can say for certain that I don't always do on a whole list of issues. We can still disagree with the men though without disrespecting the men's positions as ministers. Calling a minister an idiot and using profanity to express your opposing view to his position is crossing the line regardless of the level of credibility you think he has.

Youre right! There needs to be a coolout period but also, pfleger and jackson need to stay out of it! jackson has to always throw in the race card and all it does is get people angered. It dosent solve anything!. Like Ive stated before, this is not about black or white! This is a transit crisis which affects the entire city! The whole city is in this not just the south side! North, South, East, West. This is about everybody!

[jajuan]

Youre right! There needs to be a coolout period but also, pfleger and jackson need to stay out of it! jackson has to always throw in the race card and all it does is get people angered. It dosent solve anything!. Like Ive stated before, this is not about black or white! This is a transit crisis which affects the entire city! The whole city is in this not just the south side! North, South, East, West. This is about everybody!

I agree they both need to stay out of it. And yes Rev. Jackson can be too much of a blowhard, but I have to disagree with you that he's always throwing in the race card. That's too simplistic a view and overlooks some valid contributions he's made to American society. He also looks at issues from an economic point of view and that's where he's more effective in this day and time. However, that's beyond the scope of transit talks and can be debated elsewhere. The other reason I say we should probably step back and cool out a bit is because emotions are running a bit too high to look at this objectively. After two weeks now under the new service levels, the sky has not fallen. The city has not come to a screeching halt. Outside of earlier end times on some of the routes I take, I still get about different parts of town just about as well as I could before the service changes. If one of my usual routes hits their time for 20 min headways, I adjust by taking an alternate route if there is a time consideration for making it to where I have to go. Other than that, it hasn't been dire for me by any means. Friends and coworkers can pretty much say the same.

[Busjack]

At least on Channel 7 tonight after the predictable rally, he said "where is the money going to come from, the state is broke, the city is broke..." I don't know if he was able to make the connection that as long as economic development was not the focus, the problem is going to persist, but I pontificated on that a couple of weeks ago.

Darn--no web video.

[busfan]

I read the very last paragraph from the Arbitrators decsion on the layoffs.

Arbitrators Ruling

Only the parties and our

elected officials in Springfield and

Washington have that power — and

they have not yet acted. The gaping

$95.6 million deficit now facing the

CTA is too large a chasm to allow

meaningful concession bargaining to

prevent most or all of these layoffs

and to allow service to the public to

be maintained at or near present levels

I really wish the Unions would read that and realize CTA needs more than just Furlow Days and a pay freeze to total $95.6 Mil. CTA will not and cannot restore all the jobs will only a small amount of concessions for future years. They need the concessions for THIS YEAR ONLY. (so far) Not holding back on the 2011 raise. The language in 241's contract is very simple. It was president Jefferson who got us the current contract we have that allows CTA to lay off people with 10 years or less. The union should pay more attention to details when the negotiate a contract. As usual they droped the ball, and they try to go back to what a contract said 20 years ago and apply it to current times.

Im not sure about details but Local 701 voted to take concessions on Feb 12th. CTA agreed to no layoffs for them. On February 19th, 7 people from 701 came to work and were fired. Not sure why, or of any details, but giving concessions will still not guarentee you wont loose your job for other reasons. The unions has no control over CTA's discepline guidelines. CTA can come up with a rule that if your late 1 time you can be fired. The union would have no control over that. And who knows..... if we give concessions and save some jobs, they might just change the work rules the next day.

[Busjack]

...The unions has no control over CTA's discepline guidelines. CTA can come up with a rule that if your late 1 time you can be fired. The union would have no control over that. And who knows..... if we give concessions and save some jobs, they might just change the work rules the next day.

I guess that's possible, but that would really tie up the arbitrator with grievances, and probably justifiably.

[trainman8119]

I really wish the Unions would read that and realize CTA needs more than just Furlow Days and a pay freeze to total $95.6 Mil. CTA will not and cannot restore all the jobs will only a small amount of concessions for future years. They need the concessions for THIS YEAR ONLY.

NO NO NO....stop it !!!! As soon as you do that they will be looking for more ways to stick it to the employees. It has happened already...remember the last contract. Nothing is for now only. I applaud the union, even if they screwed up (which they might have) for standing up and not giving in, even if it meant the job abolishments. Even though they doon't want you to believe it, any dollar they can take from the service cuts and job eliminations means a dollar of bonus in the pockets of the top brass....hasn't changed for years and won't change now...why do you think they are so gung ho on furlough days....because in the end any days mgmt takes will come back in form of a raise or hidden bonus which will get them at or above where they were before the furlough. How do you think Phil Pagano at Metra could go from $240,000 per year to over $300,000 per year in 2 years, yet claim he gets no raise and Metra is broke???? Time to start putting these guys on their heels and accounting for the day to day operation instead of protecting their pockets and pointing the finger at everyone else.

[Guest]

I agree they both need to stay out of it. And yes Rev. Jackson can be too much of a blowhard, but I have to disagree with you that he's always throwing in the race card. That's too simplistic a view and overlooks some valid contributions he's made to American society. He also looks at issues from an economic point of view and that's where he's more effective in this day and time. However, that's beyond the scope of transit talks and can be debated elsewhere. The other reason I say we should probably step back and cool out a bit is because emotions are running a bit too high to look at this objectively. After two weeks now under the new service levels, the sky has not fallen. The city has not come to a screeching halt. Outside of earlier end times on some of the routes I take, I still get about different parts of town just about as well as I could before the service changes. If one of my usual routes hits their time for 20 min headways, I adjust by taking an alternate route if there is a time consideration for making it to where I have to go. Other than that, it hasn't been dire for me by any means. Friends and coworkers can pretty much say the same.

I wont say he does it always but I think he does it enough. He acts like a media hound, he looks for every opportunity to get in front of a camera. Whether local or world issues, he is undoubtedly a media hound. In this case of the CTA crisis he should just stay out of it. I watched a report on the news about CTA drivers at rainbow push and within seconds a member of ATU #241 is going on camera making comments that CTA is racist, that black neighborhoods are deprived of transit service, that the cuts mostly affect south and west side communities and in a past statement that the south and west sides always get the hand me down buses which I think is totally wrong. Every bus delivery as far back as I can remember has had new buses on the south and west sides. The exception is the 1995 New Flyers which all went to North Park. Look at where the MAN 4000s went, Kedzie!, the 9800 Flyers, Beverly! 4400s 77th! 5300s 103rd! 6000s 77th! and on and on!!

[jajuan]

I wont say he does it always but I think he does it enough. He acts like a media hound, he looks for every opportunity to get in front of a camera. Whether local or world issues, he is undoubtedly a media hound. In this case of the CTA crisis he should just stay out of it. I watched a report on the news about CTA drivers at rainbow push and within seconds a member of ATU #241 is going on camera making comments that CTA is racist, that black neighborhoods are deprived of transit service, that the cuts mostly affect south and west side communities and in a past statement that the south and west sides always get the hand me down buses which I think is totally wrong. Every bus delivery as far back as I can remember has had new buses on the south and west sides. The exception is the 1995 New Flyers which all went to North Park. Look at where the MAN 4000s went, Kedzie!, the 9800 Flyers, Beverly! 4400s 77th! 5300s 103rd! 6000s 77th! and on and on!!

Woah!!! Slow down and calm down there. Did I not say overall I pretty much agreed with you on most of it. My point is don't let the emotions get you so wound up that it's forgotten that regardless of how much there is to disagree with him on, the man is still a minister. If we can disagree with any President who's policies we don't like while still respecting the office of President, the same can be done for ministers. You don't want to tarnish your argument by having it get overshadowed by how it's presented.

And Trainman I wholeheartedly where you're coming from but how can anything get resolved if everybody wants to take a hardline stance. When facing an issue like this that's in need of some form of compromise to get resolved, there's no room for taking the hardline approach. If the workers make a concession, then the union has to be on the ball in having it set in stone that that same concession doesn't work to benefit a management level employee financially and that they make the same or similar sacrifices as the workers. They're in it together so they make the sacrifices together.

[Busjack]

... They're in it together so they make the sacrifices together.

FWIW (and probably not much) Hilkevitch has his anecdotes about the ones who were laid off. I sympathize with the one that said he paid his union dues, but the union didn't represent him. On the other hand, while stuff with other unions (there were reports about the Teamsters) indicate that if the union gives the city something, Daley just comes back for more, the statement "But union leaders insist it's their job to protect the laid-off workers so they have a decent job if they return" relies on a very big if.

I guess this column also confirms what was indicated in the arbitrator's decision, that neither side is willing to talk, despite promises supposedly made in the meeting with Daley.