Metra Electric/South Shore Chicago Boardings

[Mike Payne]

However, as many have pointed out, people have already voted with their feet, in that, for instance, the South Chicago branch is light while the 14 bus is crowded. You would have to prove that the only reason is the lack of a transfer at 71st. I think I said before that someone would have to conduct a ridership survey on that, but you said you couldn't afford it. Hence, we can't take this on faith, and no transit planner that had any clout would accept in on faith.

For that matter, it appears that people in Hyde Park have comparatively reduced their use of the 53 and 57 stations for the 6 bus, even though there is no transfer issue (see below), and it doesn't seem like anyone promotes 57th as the way to get to the Museum of Science and Industry--there is the comparatively new 10 bus, though.

This argument doesn't hold H₂0 either, because

• The farthest south the IC Blue Island line goes on the mainline is Kensington (115th) and 120th (to Blue Island).
• I've stated on the CTA Tattler the mess that the current federal transportation bill is, so I don't know if we will see the Red Line extension, but that at least would connect with the rest of the L system, while this basically only serves those going to the vicinity of the Art Institute and Prudential Plaza. They would then have to walk (at least on the Pedway) to Wabash (L). State (but that station's gone) or Dearborn to connect back up.

None of these solves the "one pot" problem.



No, but:

• I mentioned to Anonymous cyberstalker on the Tattler that people in Hyde Park used to take the IC, and didn't even recognize the CTA or much else of the real world. That seems to have changed, in that there is the U of C-CTA community service. I would like to see what the boarding statistics are at 57th, compared to, say, in the 1970s. Also the statistics for 53rd, even though the IC messed it over in the 1970s by making it only a local stop. The IC also messed up 57th at that time, although with the rebuilding, the ME transfer point was moved to 57th. Apparently Rahm and the U of C have an agreement to fix 59th.
• Notwithstanding the previous bullet point, the reason why Hyde Park stays economically viable is that the U of C owns most of it. Appaently is also trying to take over the property on Garfield west of Washington Park. That's their economic development program.

I know that I am really going to tee off someone here (as I did when I mentioned why enclosed fare areas on the Jeffery BRT wouldn't have worked), but:

• South Shore, Grand Crossing, West Pullman and the like are sure not the neighborhoods they once were (again I am referring to compared to the late 70s), at least as typified by crime problems. That may have deterred development or result from development having been deterred, or maybe from removal of people from the State Street corridor, but is a problem that must be addressed before anyone is going to invest there.
• Basically, to have economic development, you need a plan for transit-oriented development at each station. You are not going to get economic development (except for a doughnut stand) just because people have to transfer there and wait 18 minutes for the next train. Note all the problems CTA has in renting out vacant storefronts on the north side L (at least the builders of that thought about transit oriented development 80-90 years ago).
• Scooter had pointed out the rebuilding of the Green Line, and how that didn't really work. There were supposed to be mega station developments at Pulaski and Garfield--has anything really happened there, after 15 years (about 10 after Garfield was rebuilt)?
• For that matter, has anything new and substantial been built along the Green Line south of 35th, or does that area remain fairly decimated, despite its access to rapid transit? As far as I know, the only concerted effort was on 63rd east of Woodlawn--after the L was demolished.

For all the above reasons (Four Seasons no, not really), in an era of capital and operating funding scarcity, you have to make a stronger showing than the assumptions made here. Making a showing before a planning agency that has no power, in a metropolitan area where planning is an oxymoron, certainly isn't getting the job done. I suggested talking to JJJr before (before he tarnished himself by messing with Blago), and if someone with his or Sandi's mouths can't get you anywhere, no one (especially clowns in the state legislature) can.

See if you can rebut any of the above. I hope you can.

No, I probably cannot rebut all of your observations - and I'm not going to try; nor am I going to stop my efforts.

Please explain the statements on Pages 13 to 20 (especially the top of Page 16): http://www.illinoisp...ng-on-Track.pdf

[Busjack]

No, I probably cannot rebut all of your observations - and I'm not going to try; nor am I going to stop my efforts.

Fine, but if you can't figure out why your efforts are going nowhere, maybe what Scooter said applies. If the Aldercreature that would have the biggest stake in this (Sandi Jackson) isn't behind you, well...

Please explain the statements on Pages 13 to 20 (especially the top of Page 16): http://www.illinoisp...ng-on-Track.pdf

I was going to make a slam about PIRG and Nader being unrealistic, even though Car & Driver's new management made up with him. In any event, they don't have clout, and they wrote up a lot of other things that aren't going to happen either, including the Yellow Line extension (too much community opposition) and the Blue Line into Oakbrook (not feasible since the right of way is probably gone, even express service, such as it is, is being canceled, and it hasn't made any agency's AA list, and it even looks like funding for the AA projects is doubtful). Of course, they mentioned the Red Line before the Gray Line, and at least Rahm supports the Red Line.

If your reference to page 16 is to the box on Blue Island, that supports my point that the TOD has to be planned. Blue Island has two Metra Lines there, but someone now is doing research into TOD. However, you seem to assume that it is like Field of Dreams--if you build it, they will orgasm. I certainly proved that that wasn't the case with the Green Line.

[Mike Payne]

Fine, but if you can't figure out why your efforts are going nowhere, maybe what Scooter said applies. If the Aldercreature that would have the biggest stake in this (Sandi Jackson) isn't behind you, well...

I was going to make a slam about PIRG and Nader being unrealistic, even though Car & Driver's new management made up with him. In any event, they don't have clout, and they wrote up a lot of other things that aren't going to happen either, including the Yellow Line extension (too much community opposition) and the Blue Line into Oakbrook (not feasible since the right of way is probably gone, even express service, such as it is, is being canceled, and it hasn't made any agency's AA list, and it even looks like funding for the AA projects is doubtful). Of course, they mentioned the Red Line before the Gray Line, and at least Rahm supports the Red Line.

If your reference to page 16 is to the box on Blue Island, that supports my point that the TOD has to be planned. Blue Island has two Metra Lines there, but someone now is doing research into TOD. However, you seem to assume that it is like Field of Dreams--if you build it, they will orgasm. I certainly proved that that wasn't the case with the Green Line.

I was wrong, I should have said the top of Page 19. Do you know who Hyman Rickover was, and why I might use him as a role model?

[Busjack]

I was wrong, I should have said the top of Page 19. Do you know who Hyman Rickover was, and why I might use him as a role model?

19 based on the page numbers printed on the bottom gets one to the Star Line, which also appears dead. 16 seems to have been more correct. Maybe you are saying that 19 of the pdf=16 of the page numbers, but no difference. That page has the Gray Line and the box about Blue Island wanting TOC.

Rickover was involved in nuclear submarine engineering.

Maybe I can modernize an old expression:

CMAP's endorsement and $3.00 will get you a latte at Starbucks. PIRG mentioning you and $2.00 will get you a bagel and cream cheese to go with it.

None of them will get you a Gray Line, and unless you are willing to think about what I said, commenting on blogs isn't going to, either.

[Mike Payne]

19 based on the page numbers printed on the bottom gets one to the Star Line, which also appears dead. 16 seems to have been more correct. Maybe you are saying that 19 of the pdf=16 of the page numbers, but no difference. That page has the Gray Line and the box about Blue Island wanting TOC.

Rickover was involved in nuclear submarine engineering.

Maybe I can modernize an old expression:

None of them will get you a Gray Line, and unless you are willing to think about what I said, commenting on blogs isn't going to, either.

Whatever page it was said that "the Gray Line is the most eligible Transit Project for funding out of A L L the Transportation Projects in the Chicagoland area" - somehow you managed to miss that apparently.

Jack, you are one of those people (and I've run into many) who will N E V E R accept the idea no matter what I say - so why bother trying.

Rickover (ALONE) promoted Marine Nuclear applications for decades (and was thought of as a NUT for decades) before he dramatically prevailed.

You won't accept the Gray Line even after the trains start running.

[Busjack]

Rickover (ALONE) promoted Marine Nuclear applications for decades (and was thought of as a NUT for decades) before he dramatically prevailed.

PBS also said that Jimmy Stewart was almost singularly responsible for the establishment of the Air Force. So, what's the point?

You won't accept the Gray Line even after the trains start running.

You know that neither is true, so why do you persist with either?

First, 10 years ago, I wrote you and supported it. Then you went off on your unsuccessful racial discrimination charge. That got you nowhere. 10 years later, the only realization you got was that the RTA and the Service Boards won't support it, and are generally ineffective.

Since you think Nader is going to get you something, let's see what else was proposed in that report, besides what I mentioned above:

Page 18 (printed page number): Transit and the 2016 Summer Olympics. Is that happening Mike?

Page 26: Passenger Rail to Rockford?

Page 34: SAFETEA-LU being reauthorized in 2009? It still hasn't, but is running on week-to-week extensions.

Finally the source of the Gray Line statement, according to the footnotes, is:

"44 Mike Payne, About the Gray Line Conversion,

downloaded from http://community-2.webtv.

net/GLRTS/GRAYLINECONVERSION/, 12

December 2008."

Other citations are to the Hyde Park Herald and the like.

So, the Naderites didn't even make an independent determination. You are bolstering yourself.

Yet, I am supposed to buy it hook line and sinker, when you refuse to rebut legitimate criticism?

You are definitely the one with the closed mind. One that will get you nowhere.

[Mike Payne]

PBS also said that Jimmy Stewart was almost singularly responsible for the establishment of the Air Force. So, what's the point?

You know that neither is true, so why do you persist with either?

First, 10 years ago, I wrote you and supported it. Then you went off on your unsuccessful racial discrimination charge. That got you nowhere. 10 years later, the only realization you got was that the RTA and the Service Boards won't support it, and are generally ineffective.

Since you think Nader is going to get you something, let's see what else was proposed in that report, besides what I mentioned above:

Page 18 (printed page number): Transit and the 2016 Summer Olympics. Is that happening Mike?

Page 26: Passenger Rail to Rockford?

Page 34: SAFETEA-LU being reauthorized in 2009? It still hasn't, but is running on week-to-week extensions.

Finally the source of the Gray Line statement, according to the footnotes, is:

"44 Mike Payne, About the Gray Line Conversion,

downloaded from http://community-2.webtv.

net/GLRTS/GRAYLINECONVERSION/, 12

December 2008."

Other citations are to the Hyde Park Herald and the like.

So, the Naderites didn't even make an independent determination. You are bolstering yourself.

Yet, I am supposed to buy it hook line and sinker, when you refuse to rebut legitimate criticism?

You are definitely the one with the closed mind. One that will get you nowhere.

The Gray Line is included and linked to in the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning's Regional Transportation Plan (see "Metra Electric District Improvements" at bottom of Page): http://www.cmap.illi...0/project-links

(Rare instance of a Government Agency utilizing a Private Citizen source to explain Government Policy)

Is that bolstering my self also - how did I get CMAP to do it?

And I guess I'm the one that rigged this rigged Study right? (by jimmying cumulative totals):

1. http://www.cnt.org/t...jectscoring.htm

2. http://www.cnt.org/t...%20-%202003.pdf

3. http://www.cnt.org/t...ject%20List.pdf

[Busjack]

The Gray Line is included and linked to in the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning's Regional Transportation Plan (see "Metra Electric District Improvements" at bottom of Page): http://www.cmap.illi...0/project-links

(Rare instance of a Government Agency utilizing a Private Citizen source to explain Government Policy)

Is that bolstering my self also - how did I get CMAP to do it?

And I guess I'm the one that rigged this rigged Study right? (by jimmying cumulative totals):

1. http://www.cnt.org/t...jectscoring.htm

2. http://www.cnt.org/t...%20-%202003.pdf

3. http://www.cnt.org/t...ject%20List.pdf

Like I said, CMAP is impotent, and its endorsement and 3 bucks will get you a latte.

Maybe you can convince some person with influence (I admit that I am not), but you sure are not heading in that direction.

Is that that hard to figure out after 10 years?

[trainman8119]

Jack, you are one of those people (and I've run into many) who will N E V E R accept the idea no matter what I say - so why bother trying.

You won't accept the Gray Line even after the trains start running.

You can count me in that too. I think the proposal is quite foolish. I also think that any unification of the 3 service boards would be devistating to them all. I am all for keeping them separate, keeping them focused on what is suppose to be their individual specialities. CTA should be a city and only city agency. Pace should keep itself in the suburbs and Metra should be a commuter ferrying suburbanites into the city. As we have seen with the Pace-CTA fiasco when it came to paying off transfers and transit cards, these factions will never cooperate with each other and will continue to compete with each other, even though they really don't have any competition issues. CTA should not be running trains to Rockford, Oakbrook or anyplace past where they operate now. It takes away from what their focus should be.

First and foremost, until the politicans are removed from control of the 3 (and that will likely never happen) this system will continue to fail and flounder. The boards are more concerned with losing votes in an election instead of making decisions that will enhance and bolster the future. Any talk of ANY EXPANSION at this point is foolish, given the fact that these 3 cannot seem to make ends meet on what they are trying to currently operate.

Sorry !!

[Busjack]

You can count me in that too. I think the proposal is quite foolish. I also think that any unification of the 3 service boards would be devistating to them all. I am all for keeping them separate, keeping them focused on what is suppose to be their individual specialities...

First and foremost, until the politicans are removed from control of the 3 (and that will likely never happen) this system will continue to fail and flounder. The boards are more concerned with losing votes in an election instead of making decisions that will enhance and bolster the future. Any talk of ANY EXPANSION at this point is foolish, given the fact that these 3 cannot seem to make ends meet on what they are trying to currently operate.

Sorry !!

I wasn't with you in the first paragraph, but got back with you in the second.

The problem (as you recognize) is that the politicians will never be removed from control. Notwithstanding that Claypool is supposedly a reformer, you can look to his responses when interviewed by Hilkevitch, and especially in the CTA Tattler at the end of July and beginning of August, and see that he has absolutely no comprehension of how to run a transit agency. Maybe I should have not been as hard as I was on the guy from Milwaukee who was praising Rodriguez; compared to Claypool, Rodriguez was a paragon of efficiency.

I know you have your opinion of Pace management, and Metra's self-destructed.

I still think that the NY MTA model of having separate subsidiaries running city transit, rapid transit, commuter railroad, and bridges and tunnels, but only one board, would work, but since you mention the politicians, it isn't going to happen here.

That just results in garbage like the various CTA-Pace wars, and overlapping studies only enriching politically-connected consultants without getting anything done.

The political reality is that Rahm is in charge, and his only transit ideas have to do with the Red Line--fixing the north, but going through a pointless exercise of paying the consultants first, discovering that the Dan Ryan portion has fallen apart again after being "fixed" a couple of years ago, and the extension to 130th St.

The Gray Line is not on his radar, and Claypool ducked the question twice.

So, it is not going to happen. Maybe Mike will go out with a bunch of news clippings in his den, or links on his computer, but certainly no Gray Line.

[Mike Payne]

I've thought about it all, and you're right; my plan is unworkable, so I'm dropping it.

As you observed - NOBODY ELSE has ANY plan to improve service to the South Lakefront (Woodlawn, Hyde Park, etc....).

And even though ('L') service to the South Lakefront is UN-equal to most other parts of the city -

that is just Too Bad for them, they should Grow The ' F ' Up, and get over it and used to it.

Right?

[Busjack]

...

And even though ('L') service to the South Lakefront is UN-equal to most other parts of the city -

that is just Too Bad for them, they should Grow The ' F ' Up, and get over it and used to it.

Right?

Or do what everyone else does, and ride the 14 bus. They are getting BRT, even though it is BRT light, and nobody else is getting it for now

Maybe you should write the Charles Yerkes and he will tell you from the grave why he didn't extend SE from the World's Fair, and people were stuck riding the Cottage Grove cable car. Or ask CTA why they canceled the Kenwood line to the lakefront in about 1957.

[Mike Payne]

Or do what everyone else does, and ride the 14 bus. They are getting BRT, even though it is BRT light, and nobody else is getting it for now

Maybe you should write the Charles Yerkes and he will tell you from the grave why he didn't extend SE from the World's Fair, and people were stuck riding the Cottage Grove cable car. Or ask CTA why they canceled the Kenwood line to the lakefront in about 1957.

The #14 serves Woodlawn and Hyde Park??

That should be a very interesting project boarding a 45mph #14 on SSD at 63rd or 51st St.

My favorite TV Commercial will maybe explain how I look to the future about things: http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[Busjack]

The #14 serves Woodlawn and Hyde Park??

That should be a very interesting project boarding a 45mph #14 on SSD at 63rd or 51st St.

...

No, but the 2, 6 and X28 do. The L used to serve Woodlawn, and still does from Cottage west. And if Hyde Parkers aren't riding the ME, it certainly isn't because they have to transfer to it from the CTA.

For that matter, if you are talking about Chatham, it seems like most people there take the 75 or 79 bus to the Red Line.

You might also look at the discussion on the CTA Tattler today about how, at least up to now, Zone B Metra riders have gotten a hell of a deal on 10 ride and 30 day tickets, compared to the CTA.

Maybe if you quit playing ostrich, you would see the forest from the trees. But, then you said you had given up. Give us some credible evidence that you have.

[Sam92]

I've thought about it all, and you're right; my plan is unworkable, so I'm dropping it.

As you observed - NOBODY ELSE has ANY plan to improve service to the South Lakefront (Woodlawn, Hyde Park, etc....).

And even though ('L') service to the South Lakefront is UN-equal to most other parts of the city -

that is just Too Bad for them, they should Grow The ' F ' Up, and get over it and used to it.

Right?

Or do what everyone else does, and ride the 14 bus. They are getting BRT, even though it is BRT light, and nobody else is getting it for now

I'm with Jack on this. The 6, 14, 26 and X28 do their jobs pretty well as is. In fact, the bus routes do a better job of serving some of the areas such as giving one-seat rides all the way from as far as 106th into downtown while Metra riders would have to switch. Better to keep it as is and focus on other things such as why parts of the 'L' are falling apart 2-years after being rebuilt.

[artthouwill]

No, but the 2, 6 and X28 do. The L used to serve Woodlawn, and still does from Cottage west. And if Hyde Parkers aren't riding the ME, it certainly isn't because they have to transfer to it from the CTA.

For that matter, if you are talking about Chatham, it seems like most people there take the 75 or 79 bus to the Red Line.

You might also look at the discussion on the CTA Tattler today about how, at least up to now, Zone B Metra riders have gotten a hell of a deal on 10 ride and 30 day tickets, compared to the CTA.

Maybe if you quit playing ostrich, you would see the forest from the trees. But, then you said you had given up. Give us some credible evidence that you have.

Yes, Zone B is quite a deal, and you are correct that ME S Chicago riders have not taken advantage of it, but the question is why? Is it:

A. Systemwide connectivity is more important than cost?

B. People are not aware of it, which speaks to Metra not promoting the service, nor is really interested in it. They could've done the same thing with the mainline local north of Kensington, but if it's not working on S. Chicago...

[Busjack]

Yes, Zone B is quite a deal, and you are correct that ME S Chicago riders have not taken advantage of it, but the question is why? Is it:

A. Systemwide connectivity is more important than cost?

B. People are not aware of it, which speaks to Metra not promoting the service, nor is really interested in it. They could've done the same thing with the mainline local north of Kensington, but if it's not working on S. Chicago...

A is a possibility, and I acknowledged as much a couple of years ago when Carole Brown was engaged in the apparent class warfare that a fare from Kenilworth (apparently on a monthly basis, since a single ride wasn't) was less than on the CTA, but a monthly on Metra would only get you on the Metra system (although conceivably from Kenilworth to Hinsdale).

B. probably doesn't make a difference.

Let's throw out some other possibilities here:

C. Maybe people there don't want to go downtown. South Chicago originally grew around the steel mills. Those are gone from South Chicago but are still in Indiana. One wonders, though, if a third generation person has a downtown job, whether he or she would really want to live in South Chicago.

Hyde Park is similar in that the vast majority of people living there are associated with the U of C. If, for instance, President Obama had not taken up politics, and had become the full time Philip B. Kurland Distinguished Service Professor of Constitutional Law (and he could have), he would have had no reason to leave Hyde Park, and certainly not to take the ME. The only issue is that Hyde Park Blvd. is a bit of a walk from the Law School and Lab School for his kids, but there is the 172 bus. You'll also note that the 192 bus is to take people who work at the U of C Hospitals there.

D. Midday service on each branch is 1 hour now, and even if it were beefed up to 20 minutes (10 minutes from 63rd north) people are not going to wait around on an abandoned platform for that. On the other hand, the interval on 6 north of 63rd looks a lot better than that (6 to 11 minutes). All three trains stop at 57th, but it looks like about :42 to :53. The way the schedule looks now, the northbound Blue Island train has to run flag stop all the way on the mainline, because it doesn't catch up with the South Chicago train at 57th.

E. For that matter, CTA service around Beverly and Mt. Greenwood isn't that great, but I don't see anyone calling for free transfers to the RI.

[Sam92]

A is a possibility, and I acknowledged as much a couple of years ago when Carole Brown was engaged in the apparent class warfare that a fare from Kenilworth (apparently on a monthly basis, since a single ride wasn't) was less than on the CTA, but a monthly on Metra would only get you on the Metra system (although conceivably from Kenilworth to Hinsdale).

B. probably doesn't make a difference.

Let's throw out some other possibilities here:

C. Maybe people there don't want to go downtown. South Chicago originally grew around the steel mills. Those are gone from South Chicago but are still in Indiana. One wonders, though, if a third generation person has a downtown job, whether he or she would really want to live in South Chicago.

Hyde Park is similar in that the vast majority of people living there are associated with the U of C. If, for instance, President Obama had not taken up politics, and had become the full time Philip B. Kurland Distinguished Service Professor of Constitutional Law (and he could have), he would have had no reason to leave Hyde Park, and certainly not to take the ME. The only issue is that Hyde Park Blvd. is a bit of a walk from the Law School and Lab School for his kids, but there is the 172 bus. You'll also note that the 192 bus is to take people who work at the U of C Hospitals there.

D. Midday service on each branch is 1 hour now, and even if it were beefed up to 20 minutes (10 minutes from 63rd north) people are not going to wait around on an abandoned platform for that. On the other hand, the interval on 6 north of 63rd looks a lot better than that (6 to 11 minutes). All three trains stop at 57th, but it looks like about :42 to :53. The way the schedule looks now, the northbound Blue Island train has to run flag stop all the way on the mainline, because it doesn't catch up with the South Chicago train at 57th.

E. For that matter, CTA service around Beverly and Mt. Greenwood isn't that great, but I don't see anyone calling for free transfers to the RI.

Another possibilty... Maybe people in South Chicago prefer the one-seat ride that those routes provide combined with the fact that they reach further down than the Metra (103rd, 106th, 112th streets). Also the 2003 changes put downtown express service to within walking distance for many more riders here on the South Side

[Mike Payne]

Have any of you ever lived (for any period) on the South Side?

I question that because I lived there for over 50 years, and ALL the CTA

bus services sucked (especially in -5 winter weather, and late nights/weekends).

The 2, 6, 10, 14, and X28 may run OK during Rush Hours - any other time you can wait

an hour for a bus (real fun when it's -5 on the corner).

You also seem (like everyone else) to only consider to/from work trips; like any other

reasons for using transit almost don't exist (school, shopping, medical, entertainment,

family, field work, etc., etc....).

People don't use any of the in-city Electric District services very much because unless your trip can begin and end

with the Electric, you will have to pay an additional fare to use any other transit service.

Also, I get the impression some of you think I somehow need your approval - I DON'T, any more than any of YOU need MINE.

[Busjack]

I've thought about it all, and you're right; my plan is unworkable, so I'm dropping it.

Really????????????? You blow your credibility in this manner.

Have any of you ever lived (for any period) on the South Side?

I question that because I lived there for over 50 years, and ALL the CTA

bus services sucked (especially in -5 winter weather, and late nights/weekends).

The 2, 6, 10, 14, and X28 may run OK during Rush Hours - any other time you can wait

an hour for a bus (real fun when it's -5 on the corner).

You also seem (like everyone else) to only consider to/from work trips; like any other

reasons for using transit almost don't exist (school, shopping, medical, entertainment,

family, field work, etc., etc....).

People don't use any of the in-city Electric District services very much because unless your trip can begin and end

with the Electric, you will have to pay an additional fare to use any other transit service.

Also, I get the impression some of you think I somehow need your approval - I DON'T, any more than any of YOU need MINE.

Yes I lived on the South Side, about 1 block from Lake Park and 2 from Hyde Park. Used IC/ME when it paid to have a monthly ticket and used CTA otherwise. I also used the South Shore to go into Indiana and the IC/ME on occasion to do business in the Matteson area. I did not have a car and did not then see the need for one.

Then I moved to the north side for 2 years, and lived within eyeshot of the NW commuter train. However, there was no station, and I wondered why, but got over it, and rode a CTA bus 1-1/2 miles to get to the nearest L station.

If you look up the thread, you'll see that currently at the station with the most trains (57th) there are 3 trains within 10 minutes off peak, and then no train for another 50. Don't tell me that the CTA schedule is anything like that. And if you are talking about snow, the only benefit of the IC/ME is that if it is running 2 hours late and you get to Randolph Street at 5:30, the 3:30 was about ready to go, and packed to the gills. That happened to me.

I know you don't need our approval, but you need someone's. You have such a distorted picture of things that you can't figure out why you can't get the approval of the people that could do something for you.

I've thought about it all, and you're right; my plan is unworkable, so I'm dropping it.

This time, mean it, or take our disapproval.

[artthouwill]

Have any of you ever lived (for any period) on the South Side?

I question that because I lived there for over 50 years, and ALL the CTA

bus services sucked (especially in -5 winter weather, and late nights/weekends).

The 2, 6, 10, 14, and X28 may run OK during Rush Hours - any other time you can wait

an hour for a bus (real fun when it's -5 on the corner).

You also seem (like everyone else) to only consider to/from work trips; like any other

reasons for using transit almost don't exist (school, shopping, medical, entertainment,

family, field work, etc., etc....).

People don't use any of the in-city Electric District services very much because unless your trip can begin and end

with the Electric, you will have to pay an additional fare to use any other transit service.

Also, I get the impression some of you think I somehow need your approval - I DON'T, any more than any of YOU need MINE.

To answer your first question, YES I have lived in the area for quite a while. I remember the 6 being the Jeffery Express and used to wonder why we always had to go through Hyde Park. Metra was not an option because (even though it served my high school (Kenwood)), it was a mile between my house and any of 3 Metra stations. Then the 14 came along, which proved to be very successful. I agree that people don't use ME because it is an island unto itself fare wise, but I really don't believe changing it to a CTA fare system will dramatically increase usage And that is my opinion, which I am entitled to. While you don't need my approval, you need someone's approval to get this off the ground.

[trainman8119]

Have any of you ever lived (for any period) on the South Side?

I question that because I lived there for over 50 years, and ALL the CTA

bus services sucked (especially in -5 winter weather, and late nights/weekends).

Also, I get the impression some of you think I somehow need your approval - I DON'T, any more than any of YOU need MINE.

I will start by saying I have never lived on the South Side, nor the West Side, nor the South West side, nor the North side. I was always a Northwest sider. That said, it doesn't mean I can't understand the issues on all of the other areas, especially I have grown older and understand a lot of the logistics. Growing up, I always wondered why Lake Street would always get newer stuff over Milwaukee, or why Howard Street had longer trains than Milwaukee, or why North Park garage had articulated buses when I would be squashed on a standard bus along Diversey Ave. The point I am making here is that each part of the city does and always had some sort of issue when it comes to public transit. What you also are missing is that the ENTIRE system is in shambles right now, moreso from political morons who continue to appoint non-transit people into high ranking positions and make decisions based votes versus smart business. Worse, the non-transit people refuse to associate and/or surround themselves with people who have a clue as to what makes a successful organization. Finally, when a transit person is put in charge, they keep the same boobs around and make a point of trying to blame anyone else they can, plus hire buddies at over-inflated salaries and then try to create issues to make their association valid.

Your issues are noted. However combining services between agencies is not the answer. You would have a better chance of getting some sort of increased service along the South Chicago Branch under the Metra banner. Currently, that will never happen for 2 reasons. First, ridership is just not there and in fact has been declining a lot, regardless what Metra wants you to believe. Second, the most obvious is the so-called lack of funding to increase service. Cooperation between the service boards has never been a strong suit, and our political friends are not likely to do something to actually change that.

Your issues are not isolated to the Southeast side of the city. In the heyday, you could walk to any bus stop and within 7-10 minutes a bus would come. You could walk into the subway and almost always hear a roar or see a light. Now, miss a bus and it is half a day...ANYHWHERE. Miss a train and lose a half hour of time...even in rush hour. It seems that the more technology and gimmicks created service gets worse instead of better...really...all over. BRT will have the same problems as express buses...watch and mark my words....it is not a salvation.

Do you need my approval...heck no ! Just understand that I am someone who is there day in and day out...sees what happens ON BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN. Just understand that I am there and can't make things better because I am either a threat to someones pot of gold or more than likely, I just don't have the right friends in the right places. Quite frankly I have had it and have conceded defeat. Good luck in you adventures...just don't give yourself a heart attack trying.

[Sam92]

Have any of you ever lived (for any period) on the South Side?

I question that because I lived there for over 50 years, and ALL the CTA

bus services sucked (especially in -5 winter weather, and late nights/weekends).

The 2, 6, 10, 14, and X28 may run OK during Rush Hours - any other time you can wait

an hour for a bus (real fun when it's -5 on the corner).

You also seem (like everyone else) to only consider to/from work trips; like any other

reasons for using transit almost don't exist (school, shopping, medical, entertainment,

family, field work, etc., etc....).

People don't use any of the in-city Electric District services very much because unless your trip can begin and end

with the Electric, you will have to pay an additional fare to use any other transit service.

Also, I get the impression some of you think I somehow need your approval - I DON'T, any more than any of YOU need MINE.

I've lived in the Southeast area for about 11 years now and I can say that service hear is not as bad as you are making it. Again, all of these Express routes have served their function pretty well although the hours could be a bit better. And people would neglect the ME simply the reason that those routes provide us with a one-seat ride vs. having to switch and wait for another bus or train. I for one have swtiched to riding the X28 over the 14 during the week simply for that reason. Same reason so many people ride the 26 South Shore Express instead of riding Metra to the same area. It's not a matter of having the ME take CTA fares in that area, but a matter of convenience.

[Mike Payne]

Does anyone have any idea why the residents of Hyde Park's Hyde Park Kenwood Community Conference, and Woodlawn's Southsiders Organized for Unity and Liberation - successfully lobbied Ald. Leslie Hairston, Rep. Barbara Flynn Currie, Tony Preckwinkle, and Danny Davis for the $450,000 to fund the South Lakefront Corridor Transit Study?

Especially since they must know that their area's Public Transit is completely adequate and doesn't need any type of improvement.

[Busjack]

Does anyone have any idea why the residents of Hyde Park's Hyde Park Kenwood Community Conference, and Woodlawn's Southsiders Organized for Unity and Liberation - successfully lobbied Ald. Leslie Hairston, Rep. Barbara Flynn Currie, Tony Preckwinkle, and Danny Davis for the $450,000 to fund the South Lakefront Corridor Transit Study?

...

Since you didn't tell us..........

Getting money for consultants is easy. Maybe you can total up all the money that CTA has sent in consultants' direction. Like on the Airport Express and Broadway Subway.

Also, given that CTA had a South Lake Shore Drive restructuring study in about 2002 and implemented changes based on it, indicates that maybe the $450,000 of our tax money was wasted.

In any event, getting anything done is difficult. And since you told us that you are "dropping it" if the only purpose of the study was to endorse the Gray Line, but the necessary passenger information I described way back isn't being collected by the study, it is a waste of taxpayers' money.

Prove to me that I am wrong, or otherwise quit asking rhetorical questions.

____________

As trainman indicated, transit is inadequate throughout the region.

Also, if you want to mention wasted transit studies, I participated in an RTA funded one about transit oriented development near me. The questions were "would you rather have a women's dress shop, women's cosmetic shop, etc." and there were only two questions about whether you use the bus or Metra. The result of the study "we want Panera Bread and Corner Bakery." So, don't tell me that funding a transit study proves anything.

_________

Maybe since Preckwinkle and Hairston were or are big mouth alderwomen, maybe they should have gotten you a Gray Line instead of a study. They didn't.

____

A final thought: If $450,000 was spent, maybe the Sun-Times should investigate who pocketed it.