CTA 5000 series and MCTS 5100 series

[CURRENTZ_09]

Please Note: I am not in any association with the CTA OR MCTS nor am i'm with any third party within the CTA or MCTS. I am a 24 year old kid that is interested into the daily happenings of the CTA and MCTS within message users on chicagobus.org

Hello Chicagobus.org, recently i've read the post about the 5000 series and the recent troubles that the CTA caught early (thank god!!!!) Now with them back on line (Green Line to be exact as of July 12th, 2010), do you have any reserved judgement on the new fleet of trains coming in 2011, plus do you think the fleet should have been called 5000 series or 3500 series (as the orignial plan called for the fleet to be named. Plus, lets here some feedback on the 2200 series and 2400 series trains as they will leave us by the end of the year.

Now, since i am from Milwaukee, i must give u updates on whats going on with our bus fleet. Recently, Milwaukee released drawings of the new 5100 series (which will replace the 4000-4100 series 1996-1997 orders) on May 5th with mixed reviews on my end, but as of July 14th, 2010 they finally produced the final product and must i say, i will miss the 4000-4100 series, but the 5100 series is easy on the eyes, but i begin to wonder why change the color scheme when Milwaukee was getting great reviews of the color scheme that we got in 2000 with the introduction of the 4300 series (4000-4100-4200 series buses were repainted to the current scheme in 2000 to enhance the fleet to a one system look).

Anyway, i would like feedback on this topic and no matter if the replys are good or bad, it is your voice and lets keep the "battlelines" clean

[Busjack]

As far as what number is assigned to a series, that is basically irrelevant, except for the purpose of the company's computer.

The one justification given for a 5000 series is that it can't train with preceding series, while the remaining train cars on the property can train with each other.

Similarly, what this forum announced as the 600 series of CTA buses became the 4000 series when it became fairly evident that there would be more than 200 of them, and hence overlap the 800 series.

As far as "catching troubles" with the 5000s, I mentioned elsewhere, but took down, that that is the point of testing the prototypes for a year before giving the notice to proceed on the remaining 396. Far better that they did that than in the case of the NABIs, where they knew, at the time, but disclosed later, that the NABIs did not pass mandatory government testing, but "conditionally accepted" them anyway.

As far as reserved judgment, there is the question whether CTA got the message that the production order should have multicolor LED signs, not orange ones for routes with lines of many colors (i.e. Purple or Brown to Loop).

As far as color schemes, apparently some transit authorities think a new one has marketing value, although I wonder how many discretionary riders it attracts. I did like the concept of a Pace scheme on an Axess that someone else posted today.

[geneking7320]

I generally like the New Flyer "revised" front and kudos to MCTS for buying it.

CTA is rather tight with funds so we'll probably never have them here as long as NF

makes buses with the "flat" front.

Can you shed any light on the roof "pod" on those

5100s? I'm curious what's under it. A note about CTA's vehicle numbering...it appears

that CTA is sticking to 4 digit revenue vehicle numbers [New Flyer hybrids 800s and 900s aside]. The numbers could be on buses or trains but it is unlikely to find buses

and trains in the same thousand series at the same time. A current example would be

our New Flyer LF l000s which go into the lower 2000s. We had 2000 series "L" cars in the 1960s but they have been retired.

Gene King

[Guest]

Nice looking brand new 5100s in Milwaukee, I hope I see them when I go there this weekend.

[CURRENTZ_09]

I generally like the New Flyer "revised" front and kudos to MCTS for buying it.

CTA is rather tight with funds so we'll probably never have them here as long as NF

makes buses with the "flat" front.

Can you shed any light on the roof "pod" on those

5100s? I'm curious what's under it. A note about CTA's vehicle numbering...it appears

that CTA is sticking to 4 digit revenue vehicle numbers [New Flyer hybrids 800s and 900s aside]. The numbers could be on buses or trains but it is unlikely to find buses

and trains in the same thousand series at the same time. A current example would be

our New Flyer LF l000s which go into the lower 2000s. We had 2000 series "L" cars in the 1960s but they have been retired.

Gene King

Here is the answer to your question

Milwaukee, WI - - The Milwaukee County Transit System (MCTS) announced

today that the first of the new fleet of 90 new Clean Diesel Nero Zero Emission

vehicles has arrived. County officials will view this greener bus at the Milwaukee

County Court House, 909 N 10th St at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, July 14.

The total cost of the 90 buses is $32,995,506 in which $16,396,889 are funds

received from American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. An additional 35 buses will

arrive in 2011 and will be purchased through Milwaukee County.

The new buses, manufactured by New Flyer, are equipped with the Cummins

Aftertreatment System which features several environmental benefits including:

· Reduction of oxides of nitrogen and particulate matter

· Achievement of near-zero emissions

· Industry-best fuel economy

"We are grateful for this opportunity to update our fleet with the latest in

‘green’ technology," said Anita Gulotta-Connelly, MCTS Managing Director. "We are

proud of our commitment to not only providing reliable, convenient and safe public

transportation services for our riders, but improving to the quality of life of all

residents of Milwaukee County with these environmentally-friendly buses."

In addition to these improvements, the buses will also feature a new

exterior and interior color scheme. The exterior paint design is updated to a more

modern look, while incorporating the traditional MCTS palette of blue, green and

white. The primarily green and blue buses will also retain the ribbon of gold

added in 2000 to represent MCTS’s commitment to excellent service and twotime

selection as America’s best transit system.

On the inside there will be a noticeable brighter look with the seats blue

instead of brown.

The Milwaukee County Transit System is a vital service to the community,

connecting 40 million riders each year with jobs, shopping, healthcare, and

recreation in Milwaukee County. In 2010, MCTS celebrates 150 years of public

transportation in Milwaukee. Find out more at RideMCTS.com.

[rmadisonwi]

I generally like the New Flyer "revised" front and kudos to MCTS for buying it.

CTA is rather tight with funds so we'll probably never have them here as long as NF

makes buses with the "flat" front.

Can you shed any light on the roof "pod" on those

5100s? I'm curious what's under it. A note about CTA's vehicle numbering...it appears

that CTA is sticking to 4 digit revenue vehicle numbers [New Flyer hybrids 800s and 900s aside]. The numbers could be on buses or trains but it is unlikely to find buses

and trains in the same thousand series at the same time. A current example would be

our New Flyer LF l000s which go into the lower 2000s. We had 2000 series "L" cars in the 1960s but they have been retired.

Gene King

The roof "pod" at the front of the bus is for the air conditioner.

The back of the bus (where the A/C normally is) now houses a tank with some kind of special urea solution, which is used to clean the exhaust and create the "near-zero" emissions they've been boasting with these vehicles.

You mention it being unlikely to find buses and trains with the same thousand number series, and you mention the old 2000s. However, there are still 2200s, 2400s, and 2600s (up through 2999), which are in the same "thousand" series as the last 30 D40LFs.

[Busjack]

My reaction to the press release is that I guess any bus is "green" these days, so long as it isn't one of the Pace soot belchers, even if it is diesel. Obviously, though, the pod isn't a battery pack.

The urea tank is a Daimler Benz idea for clean up nitrogen emissions by a diesel engine.Of course, they call it AdBlue instead of what it really is, as disclosed by Consumer Reports.

[geneking7320]

You mention it being unlikely to find buses and trains with the same thousand number series, and you mention the old 2000s. However, there are still 2200s, 2400s, and 2600s (up through 2999), which are in the same "thousand" series as the last 30 D40LFs.

You are right!

What I should have said was hundreds.

Gene King

[CURRENTZ_09]

Ok major update on the 5100-series that debuted in july 2010.........the quality of the buses is horrible. They are already losing their back bumpers and the rails inside buses have the tendency to pop outta place if u grab on them too hard. I have never seen this type of quality from MCTS buses before, not even on the retired 4000-4100 series or anything else currently on the fleet, so to see that either New Flyer or MCTS deliver good looking products with bad material is just sad . Then also to address is the fact that yes the color scheme on the interior and exterior is refreshing and a relief to most riders that were tired of that county court house interior and shows that MCTS is willing to make inmprovements to make the fleet more world class, but the desire to rush these buses with bad equipment is just bad and MCTS is a leader in creating Transit equipment not bring bad equipment into the fleet. Also the seat design could have been adjusted (stroller asle service is being tested on 30 bus in the 5100 series bus fleet) automated stop announcements could have been introduced with the new fleet and visual stop display could have been inducted on these buses (like the CTA) to enhance riders the location of the route that the bus is located. Do i think we need new buses, yes because of it being federal standards and no because some of the 4000-4100 series buses could have did another 2 years, giving MCTS time to fine tune existing features and creating new ones to enhance passenger experience on MCTS.

[Guest]

As far as what number is assigned to a series, that is basically irrelevant, except for the purpose of the company's computer.

The one justification given for a 5000 series is that it can't train with preceding series, while the remaining train cars on the property can train with each other.

Similarly, what this forum announced as the 600 series of CTA buses became the 4000 series when it became fairly evident that there would be more than 200 of them, and hence overlap the 800 series.

As far as "catching troubles" with the 5000s, I mentioned elsewhere, but took down, that that is the point of testing the prototypes for a year before giving the notice to proceed on the remaining 396. Far better that they did that than in the case of the NABIs, where they knew, at the time, but disclosed later, that the NABIs did not pass mandatory government testing, but "conditionally accepted" them anyway.

As far as reserved judgment, there is the question whether CTA got the message that the production order should have multicolor LED signs, not orange ones for routes with lines of many colors (i.e. Purple or Brown to Loop).

As far as color schemes, apparently some transit authorities think a new one has marketing value, although I wonder how many discretionary riders it attracts. I did like the concept of a Pace scheme on an Axess that someone else posted today.

Its seems sort of odd how the CTA made the commitment back in the 1960s to make the railcar fleet 100 percent compatible with each other starting with the #2000 series cars in 1964. The entire car system became 100 percent compatible after the Morrison/Knudsen cars arrived in 1992. And now with the #5000 series car order, the CTA railcar fleet will become incompatible once again, this time in a big way with over 700 Bombardier cars on order.

[Busjack]

As to the cut part, that's government work, but as to the following:

... automated stop announcements could have been introduced with the new fleet and visual stop display could have been inducted on these buses (like the CTA) to enhance riders the location of the route that the bus is located....

What does MCTS do then to assure ADA compliance? It is sufficient compliance with ADA if the drivers call out each stop, but it appeared that one of the reasons CTA installed the Clever Devices equipment is that the drivers could not be trusted to do so.

Its seems sort of odd how the CTA made the commitment back in the 1960s to make the railcar fleet 100 percent compatible with each other starting with the #2000 series cars in 1964. The entire car system became 100 percent compatible after the Morrison/Knudsen cars arrived in 1992. And now with the #5000 series car order, the CTA railcar fleet will become incompatible once again, this time in a big way with over 700 Bombardier cars on order.

However, that comes back to that the Kruesi delegation initially put out bids for something technologically similar to the 3200s, and reports were that the carbuilders refused to bid because the spec was out of date. Similarly, Metra and NICTD said that new orders for electric cars would be all AC cars.

Now, I suppose that CTA could do something similar to what NICTD did and rehab all of its existing cars (or the about the 500 that would be left if all 706 appear and there isn't fleet expansion) and retrofit them with AC power. Undoubtedly, though, CTA can't afford to do that.

[mkebusfan88]

MCTS drivers are trained to call stops and major destinations to meet ADA standards, but a high percentage of drivers do not. Some of the drivers even tape newspaper to their shields and flip their interior mirrors all sorts of ways to avoid passenger communication. As for the 5100 series, I have noticed the back bumpers missing and handrails being popped off on several buses. Its a shame after only about a half a year of service, these buses are falling apart already!

[Archon]

Now I have driven the 5100's I like them nicer ride But they do have some quirks. The quality control was because New Flyer hired a outside firm to do the quality inspection usually MCTS had inspectors of there own do this.

The bumpers were torn off by drivers and they are having hard time getting new ones from New Flyer.

They have had trouble with the radiators leaking.

Inside Advertising rails fell off because NF used glue that did not stick NF has fixed this problem

The LED dome lights cause reflection in the front windshield glass

KK buses had to have the right mirror moved in and it is at a weird angle this was done so the bus could get into the pit's

They have nice Pick-up has a 6 speed Allison Transmission

Is a quiet bus the Exhaust cut's a lot of the noise down.

The A/C Being in front make's it quite noisy by the driver area

The have nice turning radius.

Nice suspension.

Them new style Headlights illuminate the front street much better that the old style lights

Front doors close slower but have better viewing out them

Turn signals blink slower

Has nice A/c and heat

They are great in snow I had one the Night of the big blizzard I did not get stuck at all.

Distanation Controller is higher up you usually have to stand to change the sign

Are govern to 60MPH

The brake a lot quicker With the front being Disk brakes

I turn up my Inside mirrors due to the inside lights blinding me

The Stroller area is stupid They so do what CTA does fold up the stroller!!

Joe