sw4400 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've noticed over the past couple of weeks that the Cummins ISL Engine on the New Flyer #1630-2029 seem to emit a lot of dark greyish/black smoke from the tailpipe. First it was #1771 and now, today, #1863. Why do these Engines smoke so much as opposed to the Cummins ISM Engine found on New Flyer #1000-1629? These ISL Engines are supposed to be lower emissions, but sure seem to be about as smoky as a Flxible or TMC!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 I've noticed over the past couple of weeks that the Cummins ISL Engine on the New Flyer #1630-2029 seem to emit a lot of dark greyish/black smoke from the tailpipe. First it was #1771 and now, today, #1863. Why do these Engines smoke so much as opposed to the Cummins ISM Engine found on New Flyer #1000-1629? These ISL Engines are supposed to be lower emissions, but sure seem to be about as smoky as a Flxible or TMC!!! I don't have an answer for why they are smoking, except take away their cigars. However, CTA published last month that it got a federal grant to retrofit engines on more than 400 New Flyer buses with a type using the particulate filters on the others. However, the press release does not say which 400. One would think that newer buses would meet stricter compliance requirements, but, as usual, CTA is opaque about what is meant by this project. Are they yanking out the ISLs and replacing them with ISMs, even though the ISLs were supposedly more fuel efficient? Or, vice versa? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 There is definitely something going on with the ISL EPA07 engines and I don't think it's just a CTA fleet specific issue. I have noticed Metro Transit's 2008 GILLIG BRTs (non-hybrid) tend to emit smoke or sooty exhaust on occasion. Same for the 2009 shorty units MTS assigns to their contractors: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetransitcamera/5207600204/in/set-72157623161179969/ The U of MN 2008 Van Hool AG300s often have a blackened area around the exhaust outlet, which is located on the side of the rooftop enclosure. I believe I've seen sooty exhaust coming from their A300Ls too but it doesn't build up residue with the different tailpipe location. As to what causes it I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 However, CTA published last month that it got a federal grant to retrofit engines on more than 400 New Flyer buses with a type using the particulate filters on the others. Unless this is a CTA typo, and they meant 400 NOVA buses??? They have the Cummins ISC Engine which probably would require this particulate filter to make them more eco-friendly. It's possible they meant the Cummins ISM on the first batch of New Flyers, but there's over 600 of them(1000-1629). But those Cummins ISL's are terrible on the exhaust amounts they put out. #1771 and #1863 were two examples. I'm sure there are others that are as bad or worse than this. But I have yet to see a NOVABus smoke as much as some of the Cummins ISL New Flyers. I haven't seen any putting out grey or black smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Unless this is a CTA typo, and they meant 400 NOVA buses? Since I didn't think so (why put a new engine in buses that will hit their service life in 2 years), I did some Googling. At least this President's report from a year ago indicates that it is to upgrade 2006 New Flyers to 2007 standards. Let's hope that's what the current report means, despite its opacity. However, then, the question would be whether 140? to 1624 are any cleaner than the ones that follow, or the smoking ones after that are just an aberration. One would also think that the latter engines are still under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I have a few pictures of #1764 working Rt. #11 today. The amount of smoke being emitted while idling in pics #1 & 2(might not be very visible) and when taking off(pic #3) is considerable. The Cummins ISM's in #1000-1629 and the Cummins ISC's in the NOVABuses don't smoke as bad as these low-emission engines do. These buses are supposed to have particulate filters and use Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel.... but seriously??? This kind of exhaust trail reminds me of a Flyer D901A, TMC, or Flxible 5300-Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVTArider Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Not sure if this is what the cause of the problem is or not, but here is what I learned. I was reading one of the transit magazines a few weeks ago and it had an article about a transit agency enacting greener practices. Apparently the agency retrofitted particulate filters onto some older buses in the fleet, and soon after had some exhaust issues. The filter system is supposed to burn of the particulate matter while the bus is running. However the problem was buses were idling too long at terminals and layover points, which meant the the system wasn't running hot enough to burn off the filter trappings. Then the filters would get clogged and not work properly, requiring them to be "cooked" for a day or two to clean them out. The agency enacted a strict no idle policy, requiring buses to be shut off for any period longer than 2-3 minutes, and the exhaust filter problem was fixed. Anyways my guess is the buses are probably just not in motion or running fast enough throughout a typical work day, hence not hot enough, to properly clear the filters. This would also make sense with the U of MN Van Hool units I mentioned earlier in this thread, as they spend a lot of time idling at certain stops. Sorry I can't provide a link to the article, I can't remember which magazine it was in. If anyone knows and wants to provide a link please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I was reading one of the transit magazines a few weeks ago and it had an article about a transit agency enacting greener practices. Apparently the agency retrofitted particulate filters onto some older buses in the fleet, and soon after had some exhaust issues. The filter system is supposed to burn of the particulate matter while the bus is running. However the problem was buses were idling too long at terminals and layover points, which meant the the system wasn't running hot enough to burn off the filter trappings. Then the filters would get clogged and not work properly, requiring them to be "cooked" for a day or two to clean them out. The agency enacted a strict no idle policy, requiring buses to be shut off for any period longer than 2-3 minutes, and the exhaust filter problem was fixed. ... Sounds like you are heading in the right direction. People are always on the CTA's case for idling too much (Evanston finally put up signs saying can't idle for more than 5 minutes), and I am sure that with most local routes having an 1/8 mile stop policy the buses are more stopped than started. However, while CTA has made a big deal about installing particulate filters since the about 2003 NABIs and 5800 New Flyer rebuilds, the only time they mentioned clogged ones was in support of saying that the NABIs were defective, but most of them were on express routes. Shouldn't 4-6 miles at 45 mph heat them up? Of course, maybe traffic is so bad on LSD that the buses might not get to that speed consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanbytes Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 I've been seeing this a lot too. Sometimes the amount of exhaust reminds me of the good old RTS at the end. It's pretty damn bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I wonder if North Park has a bigger problem with this than the other garages because I live along the 82 and I see 1000's not just in that ISL group but also a few 1300's and 1400's that do the North Park runs roll through on occasion with soot on the rear near the exhaust pipes like the above pics of 1764 but I don't notice on those that pass through on the Kedzie runs. I also see it less with other garages' NFs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I wonder if North Park has a bigger problem with this than the other garages because I live along the 82 and I see 1000's not just in that ISL group but also a few 1300's and 1400's that do the North Park runs roll through on occasion with soot on the rear near the exhaust pipes like the above pics of 1764 but I don't notice on those that pass through on the Kedzie runs. I also see it less with other garages' NFs. I remember seeing a Hybrid artic spewing an abnormal amount of smoke on a few occasions over on Jeffery for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I remember seeing a Hybrid artic spewing an abnormal amount of smoke on a few occasions over on Jeffery for some reason That would really show a problem, because usually the plumes (especially on Pace buses) are when the buses start, but the hybrid should be using battery power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 That would really show a problem, because usually the plumes (especially on Pace buses) are when the buses start, but the hybrid should be using battery power. I think it was #4064 or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 No pics, but to clarify a difference.... I saw #1903(ISL) on Rt. #11 yesterday, and on takeoff it just had a fraction of the black smoke seen in #1764's pic and no smoke while idling. I did also remember seeing #13xx(ISM) on the same route awhile back just barely putting out any black smoke while starting acceleration and nothing while idling(Cummins ISM Engine). Whether it's a Diesel/Electric Hybrid or just a straight Diesel Engine bus, the Cummins ISM Engine is supposed to be low-emissions, as well as the Cummins ISL. The ISL Series is supposed to be even more better than emissions control than the ISM Series, but these engines appear to smoke much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Let's see..smoking buses (take away their cigarettes), a post on the RTA having responsibility for getting the word out about sw's "favorite" program and messing it up, and today's story in the Tribune about not using wood preservative on the L platforms recently rebuilt as part of the Brown Line project....does anyone else see a pattern here? Apparently, the people who run the CTA and RTA don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 a post on the RTA having responsibility for getting the word out about sw's "favorite" program and messing it up, Not my favorite program... My name isn't Blagojevich! I shudder to think what other crap he would've came up if he was still in office.... he gave free rides to all seniors, disabled and was trying to get all military personnell as well. How would he have screwed up Public Transit and the State of Illinois further if today, August 29, 2011, he was still in office rather than in Ravenswood Manor awaiting sentencing??? When I read the ABC7 story about a retired man who took the Metra downtown for free(he had a P.H.D, so he was def. making big figures, maybe six figures/yr). That was it for me... we were facing possible more service cuts and fare hikes while Seniors who could comfortably own a home & car, plus get prescriptions, see doctors as well as travel abroad got to board the CTA, PACE or Metra for free when he/she felt like not driving to their destination(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Not my favorite program... My name isn't Blagojevich!.. I guess you couldn't figure out the sarcasm indicated by the use of quotation marks. :lol: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.