Bus Route Number Drift

[Busjack]

Since we are getting too far off the other topic:

...

But speaking on the number creep I always wondered how those on the board old enough to remember 5/5A, 5/6 etc and 153 and so dealt with all that. It sounds like it was a bit confusing. Just I like I understand from researching CTA service from 30 years ago and beyond that what survives as the "Pullman" portion of the current 111 used to be a apart of the 34 as one of it's many multiple branches back then before becoming the present 34, the defunct 104, the Pullman leg of the 111 that changed that route from a two direction closed loop, and the 119. Just like the CTA today has probably gone overboard with a separate and multiple route numbers for the same service, back then it seemed to get carried away with too many variations and branches under one route number.

One probably has to go back to Lind's book on streetcar through route numbers and Andre's explanation of CSL audit numbers* to make any sense of this.

Basically, though, CTA kept what it inherited until 1973, when the first real effort was made to cut back overlap between routes inherited from CSL and CMC. Before then, the main issues were (1) Van Buren CSL merged with Jackson CMC, and (2) CMC numbers overlapping existing CSL ones, usually resolved by "adding 100." However, on the south side, the only surviving Thru Route number was 4 (Cottage Grove-Pullman), so 1-3 worked out o.k. for CMC routes, but apparently 4 Jeffery became 5 Jeffery (according to Bill V.). All that is before my time.

The first big change was that when routes were restructured on the opening of the Dan Ryan Line in 1969. That ended the 6 Garfield Downtown and Garfield Express (interlined with 55), the 111A Express Vincennes Downtown, and resulted in a whole lot of routes terminating at 95th and feeders created south of 95th. For instance, 4 Cottage Grove used to go to 115th and Cottage and 36A State used to go to 119-Morgan. South of Cottage became the 4A, and 119-Morgan became part of 34 then.

The 1973 cutbacks eliminated much of the CSL/CMC overlap, like 136 Douglas parallel to 58 Ogden-Randolph, or 5 Jeffery (Local) north of 63rd-Stony Island. People were told that there was going to be a cutback.

Then there were the new Helvetica signs and renumbering in about 1976.** There were advertising cards in the buses at that time saying "Express Routes will Get Numbers," and that's when you got 6, 136, 145-147, but without substantive change. Before then, express routes did not display a number on the front sign, just a red rectangle with the route name such as "Jeffery Express" in white. There were also a few limited buses with a green background on the route side of the front. Some side signs said something like "2A Hyde Park Express;" others didn't. Strangely, both Archer Local and Express became 62.

At the same time, they also tried to get rid of some of the A routes, such as 36A State becoming 29, 22A Wentworth becoming 24, etc. The A's were remnants of that the 36 streetcar was Broadway-State and the 22 streetcar was Clark-Wentworth. However, they didn't do that on say, 49A and 49B, 54B, etc. There were also some similar changes at this time, such as 4A Pullman becoming 104 Pullman, but strangely, 42B became 8A.***

I was not around when 104 was interlined with the 111/115 loop, nor when 119 was separated from 34, although I do remember ridership reports that said that the statistics were combined for 34 and 119 at first, but were separated.

Of course, we know that the 6/14/15 creep occurred when 5 was essentially canceled, then 14 (South LSD Express) was renamed Jeffery Express, and 6 was taken off Jeffery and named Jackson Park Express.

__________

* As audit numbers were explained by Andre, there were various through routes on one street (such as 1, 4, and 5 on Cottage Grove to Jackson Park, Pullman, and South Chicago, respectively) including local cars (Cottage Grove-71). However, to account for those who paid fares on Cottage Grove, it got one audit number, which Andre says was 29. For the most part, the Thru Route numbers stayed, but apparently not 10 for Western, which became 49, 49A and 49B. Apparently, though, audit numbers did not become route numbers on streetcars until CTA took over, although they were displayed on trolley and gasoline buses.

**There was the discussion with 5750 over his 1973 era sign with rarely displayed numbers, such as 150 Sheridan LaSalle Exp.

***When I asked Andre why 42B was assumed to be an extension of 42 Halsted Downtown, he said that it was an extension of the 42 audit number. Changing it to 8A resolved that, but originally there were 8As to both 79th and 95th, with those numbers larger than usual in the yellow "rapid transit" square to the right of the sign. At some time, apparently when I was not around, 8A to 95th became 108.

[jajuan]

Since we are getting too far off the other topic:

One probably has to go back to Lind's book on streetcar through route numbers and Andre's explanation of CSL audit numbers* to make any sense of this.

Basically, though, CTA kept what it inherited until 1973, when the first real effort was made to cut back overlap between routes inherited from CSL and CMC. Before then, the main issues were (1) Van Buren CSL merged with Jackson CMC, and (2) CMC numbers overlapping existing CSL ones, usually resolved by "adding 100." However, on the south side, the only surviving Thru Route number was 4 (Cottage Grove-Pullman), so 1-3 worked out o.k. for CMC routes, but apparently 4 Jeffery became 5 Jeffery (according to Bill V.). All that is before my time.

The first big change was that when routes were restructured on the opening of the Dan Ryan Line in 1969. That ended the 6 Garfield Downtown and Garfield Express (interlined with 55), the 111A Express Vincennes Downtown, and resulted in a whole lot of routes terminating at 95th and feeders created south of 95th. For instance, 4 Cottage Grove used to go to 115th and Cottage and 36A State used to go to 119-Morgan. South of Cottage became the 4A, and 119-Morgan became part of 34 then.

The 1973 cutbacks eliminated much of the CSL/CMC overlap, like 136 Douglas parallel to 58 Ogden-Randolph, or 5 Jeffery (Local) north of 63rd-Stony Island. People were told that there was going to be a cutback.

Then there were the new Helvetica signs and renumbering in about 1976.** There were advertising cards in the buses at that time saying "Express Routes will Get Numbers," and that's when you got 6, 136, 145-147, but without substantive change. Before then, express routes did not display a number on the front sign, just a red rectangle with the route name such as "Jeffery Express" in white. There were also a few limited buses with a green background on the route side of the front. Some side signs said something like "2A Hyde Park Express;" others didn't. Strangely, both Archer Local and Express became 62.

At the same time, they also tried to get rid of some of the A routes, such as 36A State becoming 29, 22A Wentworth becoming 24, etc. The A's were remnants of that the 36 streetcar was Broadway-State and the 22 streetcar was Clark-Wentworth. However, they didn't do that on say, 49A and 49B, 54B, etc. There were also some similar changes at this time, such as 4A Pullman becoming 104 Pullman, but strangely, 42B became 8A.***

I was not around when 104 was interlined with the 111/115 loop, nor when 119 was separated from 34, although I do remember ridership reports that said that the statistics were combined for 34 and 119 at first, but were separated.

Of course, we know that the 6/14/15 creep occurred when 5 was essentially canceled, then 14 (South LSD Express) was renamed Jeffery Express, and 6 was taken off Jeffery and named Jackson Park Express.

__________

* As audit numbers were explained by Andre, there were various through routes on one street (such as 1, 4, and 5 on Cottage Grove to Jackson Park, Pullman, and South Chicago, respectively) including local cars (Cottage Grove-71). However, to account for those who paid fares on Cottage Grove, it got one audit number, which Andre says was 29. For the most part, the Thru Route numbers stayed, but apparently not 10 for Western, which became 49, 49A and 49B. Apparently, though, audit numbers did not become route numbers on streetcars until CTA took over, although they were displayed on trolley and gasoline buses.

**There was the discussion with 5750 over his 1973 era sign with rarely displayed numbers, such as 150 Sheridan LaSalle Exp.

***When I asked Andre why 42B was assumed to be an extension of 42 Halsted Downtown, he said that it was an extension of the 42 audit number. Changing it to 8A resolved that, but originally there were 8As to both 79th and 95th, with those numbers larger than usual in the yellow "rapid transit" square to the right of the sign. At some time, apparently when I was not around, 8A to 95th became 108.

Thanks. I remember reading that a lot of this was in part from CTA's predecessors. But it all just sounded like it was a confusing mess for those who used the system before the 1970's.

[Busjack]

Thanks. I remember reading that a lot of this was in part from CTA's predecessors. But it all just sounded like it was a confusing mess for those who used the system before the 1970's.

The question is whether it was confusing before 1970 or became confusing in 1973 to 1976.

Before 1970 (most of which I was not in Chicago), it wouldn't have been because very little changed. I could have thrown in a few other instances, such as CMC and CSL routes on Diversey merging, but even after that, there were 76 trips via Wrightwood, I suppose to serve the old Logan Square L station. Also, the CTA takeover of CMC was precipitated by CTA having the right to overrun CMC routes, such as extending 91 south of North Ave. into what was Austin Blvd., but there wasn't that much of that.

1973 was the first of the recurring transit crises (throw in 1981 and 2005) so people knew things were going to be cut, including all the 152 variants (that must have been confusing) and trips downtown.

And, as I said, there were car cards in 1976, but I'm sure someone looking for Outer Drive Express wasn't affected by a sign saying 147 Outer Drive Express. However, I was on a Sheridan LaSalle Express where the driver didn't realize that he had a sign for 136.

What would have been confusing is if Kruesi had been able to implement his bizarre renumbering plan around 2000 (based on the street grid, but add 100 east of State, 200 west of State, 800s for angle streets and 900s for express buses; or were they the other way aroud), but IIRC, Mayor Daley II told him what he could do with that.

[jajuan]

The question is whether it was confusing before 1970 or became confusing in 1973 to 1976.

Before 1970 (most of which I was not in Chicago), it wouldn't have been because very little changed. I could have thrown in a few other instances, such as CMC and CSL routes on Diversey merging, but even after that, there were 76 trips via Wrightwood, I suppose to serve the old Logan Square L station. Also, the CTA takeover of CMC was precipitated by CTA having the right to overrun CMC routes, such as extending 91 south of North Ave. into what was Austin Blvd., but there wasn't that much of that.

1973 was the first of the recurring transit crises (throw in 1981 and 2005) so people knew things were going to be cut, including all the 152 variants (that must have been confusing) and trips downtown.

And, as I said, there were car cards in 1976, but I'm sure someone looking for Outer Drive Express wasn't affected by a sign saying 147 Outer Drive Express. However, I was on a Sheridan LaSalle Express where the driver didn't realize that he had a sign for 136.

What would have been confusing is if Kruesi had been able to implement his bizarre renumbering plan around 2000 (based on the street grid, but add 100 east of State, 200 west of State, 800s for angle streets and 900s for express buses; or were they the other way aroud), but IIRC, Mayor Daley II told him what he could do with that.

I suppose you're right in some of that. I do have memories in my early childhood before the Americanas first arrived of trips I used to take downtown with my mother and grandmother where there would be times of buses borrowed from other garages for a route we would be taking and the bus pulled up signed "South Terminal", "North Terminal", etc. and no one would be sure what bus it was because of course downtown streets have more than one route coming along. Of course since computers were less used by CTA and would have been dinosaurs compared to today's anyway so there no paper signs on the windshield giving route number and name. Though of course they could have still taken the white paper and black marker approach I suppose. :lol:

[Busjack]

I suppose you're right in some of that. I do have memories in my early childhood before the Americanas first arrived of trips I used to take downtown with my mother and grandmother where there would be times of buses borrowed from other garages for a route we would be taking and the bus pulled up signed "South Terminal", "North Terminal", etc. and no one would be sure what bus it was because of course downtown streets have more than one route coming along. Of course since computers were less used by CTA and would have been dinosaurs compared to today's anyway so there no paper signs on the windshield giving route number and name. Though of course they could have still taken the white paper and black marker approach I suppose.

The "....Terminal" signs go all the way back. The first time I saw one goes back to 55th when there was a dead bus and another pulled up with an "East Terminal" sign to pick up the passengers, and the supervisor said something about it being a "77th bus." I was thinking "there isn't any bus on 77th St." but I hadn't been in Chicago too long then, and didn't know where the garages were, which took another year or two. Obviously this site was not up them. About the only thing I knew is that there was a garage at 52nd and Cottage which seemed only to cover boulevard routes (not entirely the case, and certainly not 4-Cottage Grove that ran in front of it), and the north-south buses (from 77th) seemed one generation newer than the east-west buses (from 69th).

One of the cheaty ways to find out then was that CTA had advertisements that you could buy token packs at a garage, and call MO4-7200 to find out where the nearest one was, so I called up and asked something like "I live near 111th and Kedzie, so where do I go?" Answer: 103rd and Vincennes.

My reference above was to the point that the driver had a new sign saying "136 Sheridan-LaSalle Express to Devon" but didn't know he had it. Going back about 35 years, I don't remember if he had a paper sign in the windshield, or we just yelled into the door "what bus is this?" I do remember personally cranking the side sign.

[artthouwill]

My recollection of the 5/6/14/15 Jeffery is as follows. When I lived over east,.the 5 Jeffery terminated at the Jackson Park L station at 63rd/Stony Island. Then CTA decided to run the.6 on Saturdays but with the 5 routimg around Jackson Park rathet than through the park like the weekday service. Then when the 1 Drexel/Hyde Pk was combined with the 38, the 5 became an a.m. only bus. The 6 ran through Jackson Park a.m. rush only, then around the park at all other times.. Then a few months later, the 5 was renumbered 6 Jeffery Local and the 14 S Lake Shore Express introduced as a rush hour service. The 6 Express eventually added Sunday service. The local only ran late night, then eventually eliminated. The 14 rush service kept getting expanded rush service until 2003 when the 6 became Jackson Pk Express and the 14 became Jeffery Express and became a daily all day bidirectional route.

I should mention around 1982, not ling after the introduction on the 14, the CTA Rail bridge over the IC tracks was found to.have a crack, thus Jackson Pk L service terminated at 61st. At that time there were no crossovers between 61st and east of the bridge. As a result, the 27 and the 6 local were extended to 61st station until a crossover was built just east of 63rd/University. The buses terminated there until the Green Line shutdown. I don't remember what they did during.the shutdown, but service ran to 63rd/King Drive upon reopening of Green Line.

At the time the 6 became Jackson Pk Express and the 14 became ,Jeffery Express, the 15 was introduced for Jeffery riders riding north of 67th, but not going downtown, like Kenwood students. This route also took the eastern half of 51 51st btween 47,th ,Red Line and Hyde Pk/Lake Park. The #1 service between 63rd/Stony and Drexel Square was eliminated.

[Busjack]

My recollection of the 5/6/14/15 Jeffery is as follows. When I lived over east,.the 5 Jeffery terminated at the Jackson Park L station at 63rd/Stony Island....

That was a result of the 1973 cutback. Prior to that, 5 went to Wacker-State via Hyde Park/Drexel/43rd/Indiana-Michigan.

Before that tme, 1 Drexel-Hyde Park was Northwestern Station, Michigan, Cermak, King Dr., Drexel-Hyde Park, and essentially the current 6 south of 67th to South Shore-83rd (which is the end of South Shore Dr). I needed Bill V. to refresh me on King Dr., but he doesn't have that in the early 70s, it was rerouted on a convoluted but fun route to serve Michael Reese and Lake Meadows, and then took Cottage Grove to Drexel. At the 1973 cuts, it was cut back to 63-Stony Island (had an Rapid Transit yellow sign in the Helvetica style) and South Shore Drive was served by 27-South Deering.

There was also a 2-Hyde Park between Northwestern Station and 57-Museum, basically via King Dr., rush hour only.

IIRC all of the expresses were rush hour only at that time. Somehow, I remember, after 1973, that someone who lived in Jeffery Manor had to get to 55th and Hyde Park by 6:30 p.m. to get the last express bus, to avoid the transfer.

It was impressive to see 4 routes on one bus stop sign on Hyde Park Blvd (1, 2, 2A, 5 on East; 1, 2 ,5, 5A on South). Of course, the reliefs were at Hyde Park-Drexel (new driver would come on with a beaded seat cushion and crank the run box).

[andrethebusman]

1973 was NOT the first big crisis. That was actually in 1961, when the really hopeless cases were eliminated, such as weekends on 31A-W 31st, non-rush on 46-Southport and 23-Morgan/Racine, Sunday downtown service an 76-Diversey and 152-Addison, thru routing Sunday 1-Drexel/Hyde Park and 5-Jeffery Wacker to 103rd instead of separate 1's to 83rd and 5's to downtown via 43rd. 1973 was also basically just clearing out what had become hopeless in the intervening 12 years, such as 13-Elston, 46-Southport, 98-Roscoe. The first cuts that affected what was still at least minimally viable were the ones in 1982, which also resulted in the first driver layoffs.

[andrethebusman]

52nd St's original route assignment was 1-Drexel/Hyde Park (including express*), 2-Hyde Park (including express), 3-South Park (including express), 4-Jeffery (including express), 6-Garfield (including express and Loomis/Marquette branch).

Yes, there was a "1-Hyde Park Express" once! Ran from Michigan/Wacker via Michigan-24th-South Park-thru Washington Park-Hyde Park to 57th, basically a branch off 3-South Park. CTA shut it down in 1953.

In March 1953 CMC was actually "merged" with CTA surface division, prior to that it operated as an autonomous 3rd division. 3-South Park and part of 2-Hyde Park local were moved to 77th, 6-Garfield moved to 69th, Marquette was separated from Garfield and became the 110/Marquette Loomis/63rd to Marquette/Kostner. 38-Indiana was moved in from 77th and 43-43rd/Root from Archer. 4-Jeffery renumbered 5. When 4-Cottage Grove was bussed, it was run partially from 52nd until 1961 when it became solely 77th. When the Stock Yards L was closed the replacement 43-Stock Yards Limited ran from 52nd St.

As a matter of interest, this is what a 52nd side sign from a new 8500 or 100 had on it:

CHARTERED

SOLDIER FIELD

DREXEL-HYDE PARK

SHERIDAN

HYDE PARK EXPRESS

HYDE PARK

COTTAGE GROVE

WACKER-DEPOTS

JEFFERY

JEFFERY EXPRESS

INDIANA

43-ROOT

LIMITED

NOT IN SERVICE